Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 9:09 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
ubject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/20/03 2:50 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Your trying to pin me down on this is amusing, since the membership
rolls of NCI are a closely guarded secret. The only way we know is if
the member outs him or her self.

"Closely guarded secret?!?"

Good grief, NCI members in here have been free with publishing
their membership numbers. No one has been arrested for that
yet.

It's sad to have to point out the obvious, but a "membrship number" is
not
the same as the number of members.

So, give us an EXACT number of ARRL members.

Check their annual postal statement. It's a violation for them to
purjure
that, and it delineates the number of "paid subscriptions" (ie: paid-up
members)

Steve, K4YZ


I was a member of the ARRL prior to earning my Novice ticket.

What was my call sign then?

I am sure there was a point ot your asking this question, Brain, even
though it was not part-and-parcel of the quoted item above.

Regardless of your licensure status when you joined the ARRL, the only
'relevence' would have been your voting staus. You were STILL a member.

Now...the point?

Steve, K4YZ

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...
"Brian" wrote i


Is that documentable? Letters and pictures with circles and arrows?

Build yourself a time machine and go back 40 years and look.

Hansel, if you don't have the proper documentation then it doesn't count.

You mean like your alleged /T5 operation?

Which one?

Any and all of them

Jim, you'll have to be more specific.

Brian

"Dave Heil" wrote:

There was nothing disingenuous about
anything and there was nothing in your
earlier statements to indicate that you
were discussing government policy. If
I wanted to make it clear that I was
speaking of policy, I might have written
something like, "I don't have a
background in NASA policy or child birth
policy". Child birth policy doesn't seem
to make much sense does it?


Your inability to comprehend seems to increase whenever your argument
grows weak, Dave. You stated that one must have experience to make an
informed decision - not knowledge, experience. I pointed to child birth, as
one example, to prove that wasn't true. But, since you can't seem to
understand that, I'll spell it out for you. One does not have to have a
child ("child birth") to make an informed decision about abortion laws
("government policy"). And, before you object to that, the act of abortion
is a medical procedure, but the laws governing abortion are government
policy.


That isn't what your words say. Look at 'em
and see if you can find any words about
morse *use*. If you can't find them, perhaps
I can provide a quote.


You were talking about an entirely different "use" than I was. You were
talking about Amateur radio operators "using" code while I was talking about
the "use" of Morse code by other radio services as that relates to code
testing. Apples and oranges, Dave. This discussion isn't about the "use" of
code by Amateur radio operators - ending code testing will not stop you from
using Morse code.


I strongly disagree that a five word per minute
morse test indicates emphasis. (snip)


Again, it is "emphasis" compared to the other operating modes, and
compared to where this country needs expertise (see FCC statements in
previous messages).


(snip) Additionally, nothing precludes anyone
from developing expertise though "where this
country needs expertise" hasn't been defined.
(snip)


Morse code certainly isn't "where this country needs expertise" today.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

Dwight Stewart wrote:

"Dave Heil" wrote:

There was nothing disingenuous about
anything and there was nothing in your
earlier statements to indicate that you
were discussing government policy. If
I wanted to make it clear that I was
speaking of policy, I might have written
something like, "I don't have a
background in NASA policy or child birth
policy". Child birth policy doesn't seem
to make much sense does it?

Your inability to comprehend seems to increase whenever your argument
grows weak, Dave. You stated that one must have experience to make an
informed decision - not knowledge, experience. I pointed to child birth, as
one example, to prove that wasn't true. But, since you can't seem to
understand that, I'll spell it out for you. One does not have to have a
child ("child birth") to make an informed decision about abortion laws
("government policy"). And, before you object to that, the act of abortion
is a medical procedure, but the laws governing abortion are government
policy.

Dwight, I'm with you on Kim's silliness about driving but this one just
keeps getting skewed more and more. Now you're writing about abortion
instead of child birth and NASA. You did not write anything in your
original comments to indicate that you were discussing "child birth
policy" or "NASA policy".

That isn't what your words say. Look at 'em
and see if you can find any words about
morse *use*. If you can't find them, perhaps
I can provide a quote.

You were talking about an entirely different "use" than I was. You were
talking about Amateur radio operators "using" code while I was talking about
the "use" of Morse code by other radio services as that relates to code
testing. Apples and oranges, Dave.

A different "use"? Sorry, I'm not buying that.


This discussion isn't about the "use" of
code by Amateur radio operators - ending code testing will not stop you from
using Morse code.

Aren't you growing tired from all the tap dancing you've been doing?

I strongly disagree that a five word per minute
morse test indicates emphasis. (snip)

Again, it is "emphasis" compared to the other operating modes, and
compared to where this country needs expertise (see FCC statements in
previous messages).

Can you talk? Can you do "hunt and peck" keyboarding? That takes care
of voice and keyboard modes. Tell me more about the areas where this
country needs expertise.

(snip) Additionally, nothing precludes anyone
from developing expertise though "where this
country needs expertise" hasn't been defined.
(snip)

Morse code certainly isn't "where this country needs expertise" today.

I didn't write that it is. I pointed out that the 5 wpm test for HF
access doesn't preclude anyone from developing expertise in those murky
areas "where this country needs expertise".

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.

You'll pardon our confusion. You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

Brian Burke is not my "representative" nor am I his.

It is not my Life's Ambition to immortalize morse code as the
epitome of amateurism in an avocational radio activity.

Morse code skills are needed ONLY in amateur radio...according
to certain long-timers who have few other skills and ebody hatred
and bigotry against all on that one extremely important (to them)
skill in amateur radio.

If it is your purpose as a newsgroupie to spread malicious lies
about others, to challenge "motivations" of those not thinking as
your holiness does, then you are doing a fine job.

I am not "motivated" to love, honor, and cherish morse code as
the embodyment of expertise in radio of past times. Been in real
HF radio communications before most of these newsgroupies
were in existance...never used morse code, never had to...but
only as a professional, not as an amateur.

May the lump of coal in your stocking turn into a truckload of
dusty, high-sulphur-content carbon. Merry Christmas.

LHA

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Brian)
Date: 12/20/03 9:09 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
ubject: Why You Don't Like The ARRL
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/20/03 2:50 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


So, give us an EXACT number of ARRL members.

Check their annual postal statement. It's a violation for them to
purjure
that, and it delineates the number of "paid subscriptions" (ie: paid-up
members)

Steve, K4YZ


I was a member of the ARRL prior to earning my Novice ticket.

What was my call sign then?

I am sure there was a point ot your asking this question, Brain, even
though it was not part-and-parcel of the quoted item above.

Regardless of your licensure status when you joined the ARRL, the only
'relevence' would have been your voting staus. You were STILL a member.

Now...the point?

Steve, K4YZ

Let me think it through for you.

A non-member, me, receives QST. I am included in the annual postal
statement.

Every library is included in the postal statement.

Every club that subscribes is included in the postal statement.

Every foreign subscriber non-member is included in the postal
statement.

Now would you mind answereing the question: "So, give us an EXACT
number of ARRL members."

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.

You'll pardon our confusion. You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

Brian Burke is not my "representative" nor am I his.

You'll likely want to straighten the lad out then, Leonard. He has been
speaking for you of late.

It is not my Life's Ambition to immortalize morse code as the
epitome of amateurism in an avocational radio activity.

I'll mark that down as yet another of things we know are not your life's
ambition. It'll be listed right under "amateur radio license".

Morse code skills are needed ONLY in amateur radio...

....then it is one of those things which shouldn't bother you in the
least.

according
to certain long-timers who have few other skills and ebody hatred
and bigotry against all on that one extremely important (to them)
skill in amateur radio.

I have lots of amateur radio skills, Len. Morse code proficiency is but
one of them. I use other modes and often QSO those amateurs who have no
HF access at all.

If it is your purpose as a newsgroupie to spread malicious lies
about others, to challenge "motivations" of those not thinking as
your holiness does, then you are doing a fine job.

Please tell us what you view as an example of a malicious lie which has
been spread about you, Leonard. It can't be about your lack of
motivation toward obtaining an amateur radio license. You've declared a
decades-long interest. You bragged that you'd get an "Extra right out
of the box". A code-free exam has been available for a number of years.
Straighten us out.

I am not "motivated" to love, honor, and cherish morse code as
the embodyment of expertise in radio of past times. Been in real
HF radio communications before most of these newsgroupies
were in existance...never used morse code, never had to...but
only as a professional, not as an amateur.

I've pointed out the availability of a code-free license which provides
access to the VHF/UHF frequencies which you say are the new frontier.
Your motivation hasn't extended to obtaining one of those. You have no
incentive for overcoming your inertia.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.

You'll pardon our confusion. You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

Brian Burke is not my "representative" nor am I his.

You'll likely want to straighten the lad out then, Leonard. He has been
speaking for you of late.

We just happen to agree that the Morse Exam has to go and that the ARS
is divided between folks who can accept change, and those who cannot.

It is not my Life's Ambition to immortalize morse code as the
epitome of amateurism in an avocational radio activity.

I'll mark that down as yet another of things we know are not your life's
ambition. It'll be listed right under "amateur radio license".

I think working Frenchmen out of band otta be #2.

Morse code skills are needed ONLY in amateur radio...

...then it is one of those things which shouldn't bother you in the
least.

Bothers me.

according
to certain long-timers who have few other skills and ebody hatred
and bigotry against all on that one extremely important (to them)
skill in amateur radio.

I have lots of amateur radio skills, Len. Morse code proficiency is but
one of them. I use other modes and often QSO those amateurs who have no
HF access at all.

What? No Morse?

What? No HF?

Such as out of band Frenchmen on 6M?

If it is your purpose as a newsgroupie to spread malicious lies
about others, to challenge "motivations" of those not thinking as
your holiness does, then you are doing a fine job.

Please tell us what you view as an example of a malicious lie which has
been spread about you, Leonard. It can't be about your lack of
motivation toward obtaining an amateur radio license. You've declared a
decades-long interest. You bragged that you'd get an "Extra right out
of the box". A code-free exam has been available for a number of years.
Straighten us out.

I am not "motivated" to love, honor, and cherish morse code as
the embodyment of expertise in radio of past times. Been in real
HF radio communications before most of these newsgroupies
were in existance...never used morse code, never had to...but
only as a professional, not as an amateur.

I've pointed out the availability of a code-free license which provides
access to the VHF/UHF frequencies which you say are the new frontier.
Your motivation hasn't extended to obtaining one of those. You have no
incentive for overcoming your inertia.

Now that all the Techs have been chased off of VHF, where do you
'spect them to go?

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

...Your beligerance keeps on.

Yup, beligerance with flags...

You are beligerant and ****ed off...

Once could be a typo. Three would be one of your "Atila" gaffes.
"Belligerent", Len. I thought you were a professional writer.

Dave K8MN

You must be a professional Righter.

Get to work on Bruice/WA8ULX.

Brian wrote:

Dave Heil wrote in message ...
Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Brian wrote:

Steve, I think it has to do with the disincentive of Morse Code
testing. You might want to check with Len on this.

You'll pardon our confusion. You've been acting as Len's representative
for a few posts now in speaking of his motivations or lack thereof. I
wasn't aware that you'd turned the controls over to him.

Brian Burke is not my "representative" nor am I his.

You'll likely want to straighten the lad out then, Leonard. He has been
speaking for you of late.

We just happen to agree that the Morse Exam has to go and that the ARS
is divided between folks who can accept change, and those who cannot.

Perhaps Len's mistaken views can be excused. He isn't, after all, a
part of amateur radio. You, on the other hand, should know better.

It is not my Life's Ambition to immortalize morse code as the
epitome of amateurism in an avocational radio activity.

I'll mark that down as yet another of things we know are not your life's
ambition. It'll be listed right under "amateur radio license".

I think working Frenchmen out of band otta be #2.

Okay, Brian, I'll do as you've requested.

THINGS WHICH ARE NOT LEONARD ANDERSON'S LIFE'S AMBITION

1. It is not my life's ambition to obtain an amateur radio license.

2. It is not my life's ambition to work Frenchmen out of band.

3. It is not my Life's Ambition to immortalize morse code as the
epitome of amateurism in an avocational radio activity.

Feel better now?

Morse code skills are needed ONLY in amateur radio...

...then it is one of those things which shouldn't bother you in the
least.

Bothers me.

I can deal with that.

according
to certain long-timers who have few other skills and ebody hatred
and bigotry against all on that one extremely important (to them)
skill in amateur radio.

I have lots of amateur radio skills, Len. Morse code proficiency is but
one of them. I use other modes and often QSO those amateurs who have no
HF access at all.

What? No Morse?

What? No HF?

Such as out of band Frenchmen on 6M?

I broke no Tanzanian regs, operated where I was permitted to be and did
nothing to encourage French stations to leave their alloted band
segments. If you, after all this time, still have a problem, you need
to follow the advice I gave you ages ago: Contact the French PTT and
the REF.

If it is your purpose as a newsgroupie to spread malicious lies
about others, to challenge "motivations" of those not thinking as
your holiness does, then you are doing a fine job.

Please tell us what you view as an example of a malicious lie which has
been spread about you, Leonard. It can't be about your lack of
motivation toward obtaining an amateur radio license. You've declared a
decades-long interest. You bragged that you'd get an "Extra right out
of the box". A code-free exam has been available for a number of years.
Straighten us out.

I am not "motivated" to love, honor, and cherish morse code as
the embodyment of expertise in radio of past times. Been in real
HF radio communications before most of these newsgroupies
were in existance...never used morse code, never had to...but
only as a professional, not as an amateur.

I've pointed out the availability of a code-free license which provides
access to the VHF/UHF frequencies which you say are the new frontier.
Your motivation hasn't extended to obtaining one of those. You have no
incentive for overcoming your inertia.

Now that all the Techs have been chased off of VHF, where do you
'spect them to go?

Really? The Techs have been chased from VHF? When and how did this
transpire? How would it keep Leonard from obtaining a code-free
license?

Dave K8MN