Dee D. Flint wrote:
"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
nk.net...


Supposing that the ARRL petition is the form in which the change actually
gets made and that all the newly upgraded people get on HF, how is the ham
community supposed to "elmer" 300,000+ new HF users all at once?


Don't have to Dee. They are already qualified! ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Dee D. Flint wrote:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...

In article . net, "Bill

Sohl"

writes:

Free upgrades for Techs would affect about 322,000 hams. Last year we got

about

20,000 new Techs, so the proposed freebie would affect as many existing

hams as

the new ones we might get in the next 10-15 years.



And how could the existing ham community possibly elmer these 300,000+ new
HF users should they all decide to be active shortly following that free
upgrade. I hate to think of the resulting SSB DX pileups as it is pretty
bad now. If a free upgrade goes through and significant numbers move to HF
within a short period of time, I suspect that we'll see a lot more DX
stations "hiding" in CW.

Of course they won't all become active. I suspect a sizable percentage
will remain on VHF where they are now (tech's).

And if it goes through, since the F.C.C. and the ARRL have decided that
they are qualified, they will need no help.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Bill Sohl wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
link.net...

Supposing that the ARRL petition is the form in which the change actually
gets made and that all the newly upgraded people get on HF, how is the ham
community supposed to "elmer" 300,000+ new HF users all at once?


Do you really believe for a second that if the upgrades take
place that there will suddenly be 300K people "on-the-air"
in HF that haven't been? If yes, I have a nice bridge in
Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Reality check...
1. How many Techs now own an HF rig at all?
2. How many, if upgraded will buy an HF rig?
3. How many Techs are spouses or family members
of an existing ham who is already General, Advanced or Extra?
4. How many of existing 300K techs are SK or otherwise
inactive anyway?



As for "elmering" those that would become Generals, I'm
sure many of us are willing to help anyone that asks for help.

Of course! One thing I can't stand is the p**sy attitude of some OF's
toward newcomers. I'll be happy to Elmer these folk.

I'll probably point them toward one of the General Study guides, or
even the old General Question pool for one thing. Operation of a station
will be another thing, and hopefully we can get them off to a good
start. IMO they would be at some handicap at the beginning.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Bill Sohl wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
link.net...

Supposing that the ARRL petition is the form in which the change
actually
gets made and that all the newly upgraded people get on HF, how is the
ham
community supposed to "elmer" 300,000+ new HF users all at once?


Do you really believe for a second that if the upgrades take
place that there will suddenly be 300K people "on-the-air"
in HF that haven't been? If yes, I have a nice bridge in
Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Reality check...
1. How many Techs now own an HF rig at all?
2. How many, if upgraded will buy an HF rig?
3. How many Techs are spouses or family members
of an existing ham who is already General, Advanced or Extra?
4. How many of existing 300K techs are SK or otherwise
inactive anyway?



As for "elmering" those that would become Generals, I'm
sure many of us are willing to help anyone that asks for help.

Of course! One thing I can't stand is the p**sy attitude of some OF's
toward newcomers. I'll be happy to Elmer these folk.

I'll probably point them toward one of the General Study guides, or
even the old General Question pool for one thing. Operation of a station
will be another thing, and hopefully we can get them off to a good
start. IMO they would be at some handicap at the beginning.

I think there are plenty of folks that have worked DX on VHF
and will fit right in. Those that venture into HF that have only
repeater experience will, as you note, probably need some
helpful direction. I'm with you as to being ready and willing
to help anyone.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
m...
"Mark Little" wrote in message
...

I'm not under FCC regulations so it's a real shame that I appear to know
more about them that you do.

Awwww...fer Geezus Sakes...yet another know-it-all
"I'm-Better-Than-You" antagonist who thinks that his cut-and-paste
skills replace those of practical experience in the radio service he
would seek to troll through.

Not the slightest comment about the original attempt at an insult which was
based on ignorance of the facts, but, wow, when there happens to be a return
barb pointing out that ignorance, THAT deserves the full righteous
indignation treatment. Amusing hyprocisy, but nothing more.

You can bet there are and if you've read many of Leonard H. Anderson's
posts over the years, you'll find that he doesn't see them.

I didn't agree with him. I disagreed with you. His thoughts, past or
otherwise, right or wrong, aren't relevant.

Since that was what Dave was addressing, I'd say it was VERY
relevant.

Hardly, since I don't agree with a lot of what Mr Anderson said either.
Disagreeing with someone is not the same as agreeing with his opponent,
although I suspect that may be a difficult concept for some in this NG.

You have a ".au" address...What's your VK call?

Is this for an "Hah! He isn't even an Amateur!" sort of thing? Since you
have already deemed me a troll, I doubt that you would believe it if I told
you.

Since I'm sure that you will look up the database to check if I'm lying, you
can take the effort to find it in the first place. My initials are MR, not
MJ. Of course, I could be lying about that as well. ;-)

Or have I misjudged you and you are just looking for a sked?

I'll trust your answer, because I don't think everyone who disagrees with
what I think is just a troll. ;-)


Mark

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
nk.net...


Supposing that the ARRL petition is the form in which the change
actually
gets made and that all the newly upgraded people get on HF, how is the
ham
community supposed to "elmer" 300,000+ new HF users all at once?

Do you really believe for a second that if the upgrades take
place that there will suddenly be 300K people "on-the-air"
in HF that haven't been? If yes, I have a nice bridge in
Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Reality check...
1. How many Techs now own an HF rig at all?
2. How many, if upgraded will buy an HF rig?
3. How many Techs are spouses or family members
of an existing ham who is already General, Advanced or Extra?
4. How many of existing 300K techs are SK or otherwise
inactive anyway?

As for "elmering" those that would become Generals, I'm
sure many of us are willing to help anyone that asks for help.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

It was partially a hypothetical question. Some Techs are inactive anyway so
there's probably a signficant portion there. However if even just a third of
them get on the air, that's still a big enough increase, even if spread over
months, since some will be buying rigs, that it could be a problem for a
while. If even 10% of the current Techs get on the HF bands within a
relatively short period of time, it will be chaotic for a period of time.

But answer this. If they are not going to get on the air, what is the point
of the free upgrade??? It is senseless to give people something they are
not going to use.

Let's take a look at the points 1 to 3.

1. Most Techs that I personally know have an HF+2m rig at home as they are
planning to upgrade anyway. Or they have it for all-mode VHF/UHF capability
or satellite work. All these people will be in a position to go on the air
instantly if free upgrades are instituted.

2. Among the active Techs, a very high percentage can be expected to buy an
HF rig as soon as they could afford one.

3. If they are a family member of a higher class licensee and are actually
interested in radio for its own sake, they will go on the air immediately.

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Bill
Sohl"
writes:

Free upgrades for Techs would affect about 322,000 hams. Last year we
got
about
20,000 new Techs, so the proposed freebie would affect as many
existing
hams as
the new ones we might get in the next 10-15 years.


And how could the existing ham community possibly elmer these 300,000+
new
HF users should they all decide to be active shortly following that free
upgrade. I hate to think of the resulting SSB DX pileups as it is
pretty
bad now. If a free upgrade goes through and significant numbers move to
HF
within a short period of time, I suspect that we'll see a lot more DX
stations "hiding" in CW.

Which would, I think, foster more hams to learn and use morse code
if they really want that hot DX. And if more hams didn't learn
morse to work those DX stations, that'd give more opportunity
to work them via DX to current code capable hams. In either
case it sounds like something the code enthusiasts should be real
happy about.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

While that could be a supposed "bright spot", I don't think that is a reason
for supporting codeless licenses and free upgrades.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
nk.net...


Supposing that the ARRL petition is the form in which the change
actually
gets made and that all the newly upgraded people get on HF, how is the
ham
community supposed to "elmer" 300,000+ new HF users all at once?

Do you really believe for a second that if the upgrades take
place that there will suddenly be 300K people "on-the-air"
in HF that haven't been? If yes, I have a nice bridge in
Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

Reality check...
1. How many Techs now own an HF rig at all?
2. How many, if upgraded will buy an HF rig?
3. How many Techs are spouses or family members
of an existing ham who is already General, Advanced or Extra?
4. How many of existing 300K techs are SK or otherwise
inactive anyway?

As for "elmering" those that would become Generals, I'm
sure many of us are willing to help anyone that asks for help.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

It was partially a hypothetical question. Some Techs are inactive anyway
so
there's probably a signficant portion there. However if even just a third
of
them get on the air, that's still a big enough increase, even if spread
over
months, since some will be buying rigs, that it could be a problem for a
while. If even 10% of the current Techs get on the HF bands within a
relatively short period of time, it will be chaotic for a period of time.

But answer this. If they are not going to get on the air, what is the
point
of the free upgrade??? It is senseless to give people something they are
not going to use.

I can turn that around in a heart-beat. If they are not going to
get on the air on HF, why would YOU care? Bottom line,
none of us know how many will "get into" HF and how many
won't.

Let's take a look at the points 1 to 3.

1. Most Techs that I personally know have an HF+2m rig at home as they
are
planning to upgrade anyway. Or they have it for all-mode VHF/UHF
capability
or satellite work. All these people will be in a position to go on the
air
instantly if free upgrades are instituted.

Do they have an antenna for HF transmitting too?

2. Among the active Techs, a very high percentage can be expected to buy
an
HF rig as soon as they could afford one.

And you base that on what logic or facts?

3. If they are a family member of a higher class licensee and are
actually
interested in radio for its own sake, they will go on the air immediately.

Fine, but they can't be on the same time as their other family
member with the HF license.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Bill
Sohl"
writes:

Free upgrades for Techs would affect about 322,000 hams. Last year
we
got
about
20,000 new Techs, so the proposed freebie would affect as many
existing
hams as
the new ones we might get in the next 10-15 years.


And how could the existing ham community possibly elmer these 300,000+
new
HF users should they all decide to be active shortly following that
free
upgrade. I hate to think of the resulting SSB DX pileups as it is
pretty
bad now. If a free upgrade goes through and significant numbers move
to
HF
within a short period of time, I suspect that we'll see a lot more DX
stations "hiding" in CW.

Which would, I think, foster more hams to learn and use morse code
if they really want that hot DX. And if more hams didn't learn
morse to work those DX stations, that'd give more opportunity
to work them via DX to current code capable hams. In either
case it sounds like something the code enthusiasts should be real
happy about.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

While that could be a supposed "bright spot", I don't think that is a
reason
for supporting codeless licenses and free upgrades.

That is certainly your perogative.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

While that could be a supposed "bright spot", I don't think that is a reason
for supporting codeless licenses and free upgrades.

Right...U.S. amateur radio is all about radiotelegraphy.

beep, beep

LHA / WMD