"Monument to Mediocrity" wrote

Your industry "abides" it all the time. Otherwise you'd never get any
products out the door.

We get a LOT of product out the door. Our engineering groups software
defined radio and hybrid fiber-radio (do a web search on Digivance)
products are the industry leaders precisely because they are not
"average". If we designed "average" stuff, we'd be closing the doors,
not shipping product out them.

73, de Hans, K0HB

Subject: Morse and Contests
From: "KØHB"
Date: 5/15/2004 10:41 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Monument to Mediocrity" wrote

I am always amazed at how you manage to express such outrage or disdain
for others who take such swipes at each other, but somehow seem to think such
swipes are OK for YOU to take, Hans.

What's up with that...?!?! I didn't see Jim take any such swipe at you.


Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: (William)
Date: 5/14/2004 7:32 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...

They aren't "personal attacks" if they're true. So far you've not
done or
said anything to prove otherwise.

Steve, K4YZ

Now you've called me a coward and a liar. They are personal attacks
regardless of whether they're true or not, and they're not true.

Until proven otherwise, they are.

SO far you are both.

Hmmm?

I wonder what you would call a person who presumes guilt until proven
innocent? America fought a war to get rid of people who think that
way.

You're just not a nice person.

I guess you consider me "not a nice person" because I don't tolerate your
mistruths and flights of fantasy.

Oh well. You'll excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over what a liar and a
coward thinks of me.

Anyway, I know what I've done and that's enough for me.

I think you REALLy meant that what you THINK you've done is enough for
you.

I don't need
a certificate on the wall to document my operations in foreign lands,
and as far as documention goes, even the FCC no longer requires us to
keep a log book. So much for you wanting me to do this just for me.
Get real, its for you.

IF you operated from Somalia, you didn't do it legally.

IF you operted from Somalia, you still ahve yet to prove it.

IF you were telling the truth about it you could have at least provided
the callsigns of a few folks you chatted with. I remember the calls of some
folks I "worked" from 1981 from Okinawa. What's YOUR problem?

I don't have a problem. I've told you before that I'm good with what
I did, and don't need your approval. Never did, and never will.
Sucks, huh?

Your continued insistance that I provide documention to you just isn't
going to happen. You can get over it by getting over it.

It's no skin off my nose, Brain...I am not the one who made far-out claims
that even a (pardon the pun) rank amateur in DXing could have avoided.

Dave Heil is a rank amateur? I don't think so. But like you, even he
didn't know that a military commander can approve amateur operation in
a foreign country without a government until I pointed it out to him.
And you see a commander behind every butter bar. I guess that's how
marines are trained. You really shouldn't bring up such embarassing
accusations. You look a fool, and here you go dragging Dave into this
again.

BTW, Dave and I get along just fine as long as we don't communicate
with each other. You might try the same tactic, but then you wouldn't
have anyone to talk to. And do try to keep from sending to me
personal e-mails.

No Proof = Didn't happen.

So how 'bout them MARS regulations? Can you back up your statement,

" Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio". "

As long as the two are inter-dependent on each other, Brain, it's true.

True? Show that it's true. Post the regulation volume and paragraph
number. Unless there is no regulation that state's,

" Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio". "

without the "Sorry, Han's" part, of course.

As of today. it's true. No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

Amateur Radio-like conversations conducted by licensed Amateurs who happen
to be MARS members still, as I type this, occur on MARS allocations.

I listened to a Canadian amateur the other day. Sounded just like an
American. But I don't make the claim that "America = Canada," based
upon that observation, do I? That would be a stupid statement, and I
would be foolish for making it.

You are free to make such stupid statements, however. And I am free
to point out just how stupid they are and how foolish you are for
making them.

Don't like it? The fix is easy and easily within your control (and
you do like control, don't you?).

1. Stop saying stupid stuff.

2. If you goof and say something stupid anyway, and I point it out to
you, just acknowledge that it was a stupid thing to say.

Best of Luck.

For what?

Steve, K4YZ

For digging yourself out of yet another untenable position.

Best of Luck.

BTW, how was Dayton? Camping WX was lousy.

(William) wrote in message . com...
(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...

Now you've called me a coward and a liar. They are personal attacks
regardless of whether they're true or not, and they're not true.

Until proven otherwise, they are.

SO far you are both.

Hmmm?

I wonder what you would call a person who presumes guilt until proven
innocent? America fought a war to get rid of people who think that
way.

What guilt, Brain?

You've made assertions of fact then not backed them up.

I call a person like that a liar. You've had months and months
to prove it otherwise, yet you won't.

If you don't like the black eye you're getting, then either admit
you were making it up, or pony up some evidence to the contrary.

Your continued insistance that I provide documention to you just isn't
going to happen. You can get over it by getting over it.

It's no skin off my nose, Brain...I am not the one who made far-out claims
that even a (pardon the pun) rank amateur in DXing could have avoided.

Dave Heil is a rank amateur? I don't think so. But like you, even he
didn't know that a military commander can approve amateur operation in
a foreign country without a government until I pointed it out to him.
And you see a commander behind every butter bar. I guess that's how
marines are trained. You really shouldn't bring up such embarassing
accusations. You look a fool, and here you go dragging Dave into this
again.

And as of yet, you haven't even provided the name of that
"commander".

Furthermore, you wee under the auspices of the United Nations.
They ahd jurisdiction, not your LT or CPT.

As for your "commander behind every butter bar", you really need
to wake up, Brain. No such assertion was ever made.

BTW, Dave and I get along just fine as long as we don't communicate
with each other. You might try the same tactic, but then you wouldn't
have anyone to talk to. And do try to keep from sending to me
personal e-mails.

I am sure there are a LOT of people who enjoy not talking to you,
Brain...No doubt out of frustration from trying to have an INFORMED
discussion with you.

You wear ignorance and arrogance like a badge of honor. I just
don't get that.

No Proof = Didn't happen.

So how 'bout them MARS regulations? Can you back up your statement,

" Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio". "

As long as the two are inter-dependent on each other, Brain, it's true.

True? Show that it's true. Post the regulation volume and paragraph
number. Unless there is no regulation that state's,

" Sorry Hans, MARS IS "Amateur Radio". "

without the "Sorry, Han's" part, of course.

Don't need to, Brain. It's a fact.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.......Just like I don't need a piece
of paper to tell me that an abrupt application of force to the face
will hurt.

As of today. it's true. No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

Amateur Radio-like conversations conducted by licensed Amateurs who happen
to be MARS members still, as I type this, occur on MARS allocations.

I listened to a Canadian amateur the other day. Sounded just like an
American. But I don't make the claim that "America = Canada," based
upon that observation, do I? That would be a stupid statement, and I
would be foolish for making it.

Sure it would be stupid.

But then it's not what we are talking about, now is it?

You are free to make such stupid statements, however. And I am free
to point out just how stupid they are and how foolish you are for
making them.

That you disagree with how I worded it is fair game.

That the context is still valid isn't. No Amateur Radio = No
MARS.

Don't like it? The fix is easy and easily within your control (and
you do like control, don't you?).

1. Stop saying stupid stuff.

When I say something stupid, I will keep that in mind.

2. If you goof and say something stupid anyway, and I point it out to
you, just acknowledge that it was a stupid thing to say.

If I say something stupid and you point it out, I will acknowledge
it. WHEN it happens, Brain...It hasn't yet.

Best of Luck.

For what?

Steve, K4YZ

For digging yourself out of yet another untenable position.

What "untenable position"...?!?!

No Amateur Radio = No MARS. It's a fact.

Best of Luck.

BTW, how was Dayton? Camping WX was lousy.

Wouldn't know...Today (May 16th) was the fifth anniversary of my
daughter's passing, and my wife insisted I stay close to home. But no
matter where I go, there she is...She may ahve left my arms, but
she'll never leave my heart.

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message . com...

Wouldn't know...Today (May 16th) was the fifth anniversary of my
daughter's passing, and my wife insisted I stay close to home. But no
matter where I go, there she is...She may ahve left my arms, but
she'll never leave my heart.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, I am sorry. Maybe one day they'll move the dates of the Hamvention again.

bb

N2EY wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

N2EY wrote:

"KØHB" wrote in message link.net...


"Jack Twilley" wrote



If you were the average ham, Hans......

"Average" and "contesting" are incompatible concepts.


Agreed!


"Nothing average ever stood as a monument to progress.


Not entirely true.

Look at the "average" ham HF transceiver of, say, 40 years ago. Now
look at the "average" ham HF transceiver today. Not the
top-of-the-line, but rather what the middle of the pack can afford.
I'd say there's been some progress, particularly in what such sets
cost to buy new in terms of how many hours you have to work to buy
one.

And if Hams simply bought the "average" rigs of yesteryear in
preference to the improved ones, we'd still be getting those same
average rigs.


Exactly my point. Those who wanted something above average (like the
contesters and DXers) drove the market.

And as a result the *average* moved up over time.

Of course one of the big reasons the *average* rig is better is a
trickle-down effect of techniques used on the top-of-the-line stuff.
Which stuff exists in large part because of the market created by
contesters and DXers.

Or look at the features, capabilities and cost of the average PC
compared to 5 or 10 years ago. Heck, the average new PC today is more
powerful (by a whole bunch of measures) than the top-of-the-line
machine of a few years ago - and it costs far less.

So I'd say that the *average* can actually be a monument to progress.

Gee Jim! average means just that. The newer better faster average rigs
and computers are getting their increased power or functionality FROM
the better than average machinery. No better than average machinery, no
increased capabilitied to eventually go into the average stuff.


Exactly! But it is the *improvement in the average* that can stand as
a monument to true progress.

IOW, if some tiny percentage of top-end rigs have a new technology,
that's 'progress' for the few who can afford it. But when that new
technology becomes affordable and generally used so that the *average*
rig has it, that's 'progress' for most of us.

But without the extraordinary, that progress is not made.

I understand your argument, but to me it is backwards.



- Mike KB3EIA -

Subject: Morse and Contests
From: (William)
Date: 5/16/2004 8:15 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...

Wouldn't know...Today (May 16th) was the fifth anniversary of my
daughter's passing, and my wife insisted I stay close to home. But no
matter where I go, there she is...She may ahve left my arms, but
she'll never leave my heart.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, I am sorry. Maybe one day they'll move the dates of the Hamvention
again.

Thanks, Brian.

For me, anyway, it really would have been better to go. I needed to be
away for a bit, but hey...can't always have everything the way we want it,
eh...???

At least I can look forward to Huntsville...If anyone is within a
"relatively" reasonable drive time of Huntsville, AL, and has never been to
this one, they should try to. It's the second or third weekend of August, and
is always a lot of fun.

The "flea market" is indoors, but there's lots-and-lots of it. All the
usual forums and a very reasonable showing of vendors and organizations.
All-in-all it's a very well conducted regional hamfest. (Computers are there,
but in an ancilliary role!)

73 & thanks again...

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: (William)
Date: 5/16/2004 8:15 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...

Wouldn't know...Today (May 16th) was the fifth anniversary of my
daughter's passing, and my wife insisted I stay close to home. But no
matter where I go, there she is...She may ahve left my arms, but
she'll never leave my heart.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, I am sorry. Maybe one day they'll move the dates of the Hamvention
again.

Thanks, Brian.

For me, anyway, it really would have been better to go. I needed to be
away for a bit, but hey...can't always have everything the way we want it,
eh...???

Shoot for something soon. I'm going to a wine tasting in Cleveland
tomorrow night, which ought to do a body good.

At least I can look forward to Huntsville...If anyone is within a
"relatively" reasonable drive time of Huntsville, AL, and has never been to
this one, they should try to. It's the second or third weekend of August, and
is always a lot of fun.

I used to meet a friend at the Indy hamfest in July, then I'd travel
up to Ft Wayne hamfest in November to see him again. He moved to
Montana last summer. I guess I could meet him at the Sturgis Hamfest.

The "flea market" is indoors, but there's lots-and-lots of it. All the
usual forums and a very reasonable showing of vendors and organizations.
All-in-all it's a very well conducted regional hamfest. (Computers are there,
but in an ancilliary role!)

73 & thanks again...

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, it's kind of funny that the Hamvention folks moved the date
back hoping for better weather, then we had such a bad weekend. Its
even more sad that since Ohio is the home of the Hamvention, many of
the other hamfests here are so tiny. Someday I'd like to go to
another big fest other than Dayton, maybe Miami. I'd have to take
some extra time off because I need a tour of the Nat'l Hurricane
Center, and a trip to Margaritaville.

Subject: Morse and Contests
From: (William)
Date: 5/17/2004 6:42 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: (William)
Date: 5/16/2004 8:15 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) wrote in message
.com...

Wouldn't know...Today (May 16th) was the fifth anniversary of my
daughter's passing, and my wife insisted I stay close to home. But no
matter where I go, there she is...She may ahve left my arms, but
she'll never leave my heart.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve, I am sorry. Maybe one day they'll move the dates of the Hamvention
again.

Thanks, Brian.

For me, anyway, it really would have been better to go. I needed to
be
away for a bit, but hey...can't always have everything the way we want it,
eh...???

Shoot for something soon. I'm going to a wine tasting in Cleveland
tomorrow night, which ought to do a body good.

I am not too much on alcoholic beverages, however I'd love to find a local
ABC that sold Stroh's Beer! Haven't ahd one in 5-6 years.

Steve, it's kind of funny that the Hamvention folks moved the date
back hoping for better weather, then we had such a bad weekend. Its
even more sad that since Ohio is the home of the Hamvention, many of
the other hamfests here are so tiny.

What would be nice is if they could re-arrange the vendors to allow some
of the flea market indoors, although I kinda like the "bazaar" atmosphere
otherwise.

As for the size, yeah, I guess it's the bitter pill for being home to "The
Big One"...

73

Steve, K4YZ