"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Morse and Contests
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 4/27/2004 7:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW testing

question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do. In this regard,
as in
any other pursuit in life, greater skill should be rewarded.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Not "more equal"...Just better compensation.

As a Nurse with my experience, credentials and skills, I expect to be
compensated accordiningly. So why not be "compensated" in a contest that
required using honed skills, too...?!?!

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

And how long would it take a "new" Ham to master using a keyboard?

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

Shudda been on the paddles!

Seriously, though...Most contests differentiatemodes in awards...

Steve, K4YZ





Simply stated....CW Contesting requires real skills. Digital requires the
ability to type.
Phone is way down there from the above requirements.

If you want to do so....Give phone 1 point, digital 2 points, and CW 5
points per qso.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

Dan/W4NTI

Sure...why not? It requires some REAL skill to do.

5nn QRZ ....


While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

5nn vs you're five by nine

honed skills, too...?!?!
and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

5nn 5nn

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard

Yep with one of those new fangled voice machines.

The above is in response to what one hears in contesting in addition to a
lot of bad manners and yes that happens on CW also ergo KI3R does his
"needle point" that weekend.

73 and 5nn de Tom KI3R QRZ .....

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"Tom" == garigue writes:

[...]

Tom Yep with one of those new fangled voice machines.

Ugh! You've hit my primary pet peeve with contesting.

Tom The above is in response to what one hears in contesting in
Tom addition to a lot of bad manners and yes that happens on CW also
Tom ergo KI3R does his "needle point" that weekend.

Those "voice keyers" annoy me more than anything, even "CW keyers". I
felt like jumping into a QSO Party a few weeks ago but *five*
different stations had voice keyers calling CQ every thirty seconds
and didn't acknowledge my response. Honestly, if you can't talk into
the radio for the length of the contest, then maybe you should take a
break.

Voice keyers in my opinion are just plain wrong.

Tom 73 and 5nn de Tom KI3R QRZ .....

Jack.
(thanks for pushing the button)
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Jack Twilley wrote:
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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:


Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to the
point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're orthogonal, as far
as I can tell.

I was always told that the increased points offered was an
encouragement to work CW.


Mike While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does
Mike it make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than
Mike others?

Yes, in my humble opinion. It's harder (at least for me and many of
my ham friends) to make contacts via CW, so those should be worth more
points.

Mike Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
Mike double points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the
Mike same double points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked
Mike up a fair number of points operating PSK31, and it was certainly
Mike no more difficult than operating Phone.

I don't operate PSK31, and I'm not that interested in trying at the
moment, so I can't say.

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

And how hard did that CW op work?


I doubt twice as hard as the Phone person.

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW testing
question, but is related by being a CW operating question.

With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?


Yep. In fact it should be triple for CW and double for data modes.

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?


Sure - if that mode uses less spectrum space and is more efficient.

Wow, talk about an arbitrary point, Jim! I never heard of any contest
rules based on bandwidth. ALthough if they did, it could make fro some
interesting scoring.


Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.


It's more than fair. If anything the slant is towards 'phone because
you can put almost anybody in front of the mike after a few minutes
instruction and they can make FD QSOs (particularly if there's a
'logger' sitting right there).

Working CW takes special skills, working PSK-31 takes more equipment
and some skill (not as much as CW, of course, but more than 'phone).
Both modes use much less spectrum space and are more efficient. So
their use should be encouraged on Field Day (which is about the only
large mixed-mode HF contest in existence).

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.


Said CW op also worked hard, did he not? And is "hard work" the
criteria, or effectiveness? You can fit at least 10 CW or PSK QSOs in
the space of one SSB QSO. Shouldn't that sort of efficiency be
encouraged?

If it were the arbitrary reasoning behind the contest.

- Mike KB3EIA -

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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:

Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

Jack How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to
Jack the point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're
Jack orthogonal, as far as I can tell.

Mike I was always told that the increased points offered was an
Mike encouragement to work CW.

That doesn't really answer the question. A Technician can send CW on
certain HF bands, even without a higher-class license-holder present.
A ham with any other license can work phone contacts. Therefore,
whether or not an amateur has passed a Morse code test has nothing to
do with woether or not they can use Morse code. Even if the
multiplier is to provide encouragement to use Morse code, it still
doesn't have anything to do with whether or not hams are tested.

Now, if you're going to assert that the potential end to Morse code
testing will eventually cause hams to stop learning and/or using Morse
code, and that therefore the multiplier is akin to the "marriage
penalty" [1], well, I'm not sure that's true. If it is, NCI should be
raising holy hell about the pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

[...]

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

Jack And how hard did that CW op work?

Mike I doubt twice as hard as the Phone person.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking. Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

When I know the code, I'll do the same thing, if only to satisfy my
own curiosity.

Mike - Mike KB3EIA -

Jack.

[1] For those who are unfamiliar with this concept, for some time the
tax structure in the US was such that married couples with two similar
incomes paid more tax than married couples with one income, or with
two very dissimilar incomes, even when the total number of dollars
earned is the same. The common theory behind this is that it is
designed to encourage married couples to have one working spouse and
one non-working spouse. Whether or not this is moral, ethical, or
even a good idea is a different question.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Jack Twilley wrote:

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"Tom" == garigue writes:


[...]

Tom Yep with one of those new fangled voice machines.

Ugh! You've hit my primary pet peeve with contesting.

Tom The above is in response to what one hears in contesting in
Tom addition to a lot of bad manners and yes that happens on CW also
Tom ergo KI3R does his "needle point" that weekend.

Those "voice keyers" annoy me more than anything, even "CW keyers". I
felt like jumping into a QSO Party a few weeks ago but *five*
different stations had voice keyers calling CQ every thirty seconds
and didn't acknowledge my response. Honestly, if you can't talk into
the radio for the length of the contest, then maybe you should take a
break.

Voice keyers in my opinion are just plain wrong.

Agreed, I don't like keyers at all. If I made contest rules, they would
be outlawed. Get caught using a keyer, and yer out!

I've been in contests where the timeing is set so close between CQ's
that there isn't time to get in a reply. I suppose the idiot wonders why
he's getting no one coming back.

hmmm, maybe an op could get mults for turning in keyers! 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:

[... me ranting about voice keyers ...]

Mike Agreed, I don't like keyers at all. If I made contest rules,
Mike they would be outlawed. Get caught using a keyer, and yer out!

Sounds like a good deal to me. Make every contest night a straight
key night. Or paddles, or whatever, as long as it's by hand and
without assistance -- that means no keyboards either.

Mike I've been in contests where the timeing is set so close between
Mike CQ's that there isn't time to get in a reply. I suppose the
Mike idiot wonders why he's getting no one coming back.

I'm waiting for the day I hear "CQ contest, CQ contest, this is K1XY,
please QSY five kilohertz up..." repeated over and over. That'll
really tweak me.

Mike hmmm, maybe an op could get mults for turning in keyers! 8^)

Nah, imagine a Turing-like contest where you get points for
identifying different methods of Morse transmission, such as straight
keys, paddles, bugs, keyboard or keyers.

Mike - Mike KB3EIA -

Jack.
(talk about your obscure skills test)
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Jack Twilley" wrote

If it is, NCI should be raising holy hell about the
pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

One NCI Director calls contests "electronic splat ball".
Actually, I kinda like that description. One of my grandsons
asked about contesting, and I used that metaphor. Now he wants
to multi-op with me in this years SS.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar
contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely
in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of
your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for
the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking.
Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

I regularly work both weekends of SS (CW one weekend, Phone two
weeks later). Both are scored the same way, each two-way contact
counts for 2 points (a message sent and a message received).
Personally I enjoy the CW weekend more, but invariably score
higher on Phone weekend, simply because I can copy CW at only
about 45 WPM, and voice at about 300WPM.

73, de Hans, K0HB

PS: If you don't like keyers, you ain't gonna make it
contesting.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Idly musing, I thought of this a few moments ago. It isn't a CW testing
question, but is related by being a CW operating question.


With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any reason to
have contests give double the points for Morse code contacts?

While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does it
make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than others?

Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth double
points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the same double
points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked up a fair number of
points operating PSK31, and it was certainly no more difficult than
operating Phone.

I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked hard and
logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op with little more
than half that number.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Yes it is worth giving the CW contacts double points. It will serve as an
aid in preserving a valuable communications tool. Some people will learn it
for the very purpose of getting more points in the contest.

This last Field Day, conditions were so poor that our two CW stations netted
more contacts than our three voice stations and GOTA station combined. Not
just points mind you but actual number of contacts.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE