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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:

Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to the
point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're orthogonal, as far
as I can tell.

Mike While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does
Mike it make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than
Mike others?

Yes, in my humble opinion. It's harder (at least for me and many of
my ham friends) to make contacts via CW, so those should be worth more
points.

Mike Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
Mike double points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the
Mike same double points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked
Mike up a fair number of points operating PSK31, and it was certainly
Mike no more difficult than operating Phone.

I don't operate PSK31, and I'm not that interested in trying at the
moment, so I can't say.

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

And how hard did that CW op work?

Mike - Mike KB3EIA -

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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And how hard did that CW op work?



Well some of us here could do it while driving a bus. I wouldn't recomment
it, as if something happened that driver would be in deep do-do.....

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"Robert" == Robert Casey writes:

Jack And how hard did that CW op work?

Robert Well some of us here could do it while driving a bus. I
Robert wouldn't recomment it, as if something happened that driver
Robert would be in deep do-do.....

True, just like some of those phone ops could do it while driving an
SUV filled with brats in soccer cleats. What's your point?

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Jack Twilley wrote:
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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:


Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to the
point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're orthogonal, as far
as I can tell.

I was always told that the increased points offered was an
encouragement to work CW.


Mike While of course all contest rules are inherently arbitrary, does
Mike it make sense to have one mode of contact be "more equal" than
Mike others?

Yes, in my humble opinion. It's harder (at least for me and many of
my ham friends) to make contacts via CW, so those should be worth more
points.

Mike Put another way, if you think that CW contacts should be worth
Mike double points, is it fair to have say, PSK31 contacts worth the
Mike same double points such as in Field day? Our GOTA station racked
Mike up a fair number of points operating PSK31, and it was certainly
Mike no more difficult than operating Phone.

I don't operate PSK31, and I'm not that interested in trying at the
moment, so I can't say.

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

And how hard did that CW op work?


I doubt twice as hard as the Phone person.

- Mike KB3EIA -

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"Mike" == Mike Coslo writes:

Mike With the likely demise of Morse code testing, is there any
Mike reason to have contests give double the points for Morse code
Mike contacts?

Jack How is the presence or absence of Morse code testing related to
Jack the point multiplier for Morse code contacts? They're
Jack orthogonal, as far as I can tell.

Mike I was always told that the increased points offered was an
Mike encouragement to work CW.

That doesn't really answer the question. A Technician can send CW on
certain HF bands, even without a higher-class license-holder present.
A ham with any other license can work phone contacts. Therefore,
whether or not an amateur has passed a Morse code test has nothing to
do with woether or not they can use Morse code. Even if the
multiplier is to provide encouragement to use Morse code, it still
doesn't have anything to do with whether or not hams are tested.

Now, if you're going to assert that the potential end to Morse code
testing will eventually cause hams to stop learning and/or using Morse
code, and that therefore the multiplier is akin to the "marriage
penalty" [1], well, I'm not sure that's true. If it is, NCI should be
raising holy hell about the pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

[...]

Mike I've seen a number of cases where a phone operator has worked
Mike hard and logged a lot of QSO's, only to be beaten by a CW op
Mike with little more than half that number.

Jack And how hard did that CW op work?

Mike I doubt twice as hard as the Phone person.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking. Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

When I know the code, I'll do the same thing, if only to satisfy my
own curiosity.

Mike - Mike KB3EIA -

Jack.

[1] For those who are unfamiliar with this concept, for some time the
tax structure in the US was such that married couples with two similar
incomes paid more tax than married couples with one income, or with
two very dissimilar incomes, even when the total number of dollars
earned is the same. The common theory behind this is that it is
designed to encourage married couples to have one working spouse and
one non-working spouse. Whether or not this is moral, ethical, or
even a good idea is a different question.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Jack Twilley" wrote

If it is, NCI should be raising holy hell about the
pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

One NCI Director calls contests "electronic splat ball".
Actually, I kinda like that description. One of my grandsons
asked about contesting, and I used that metaphor. Now he wants
to multi-op with me in this years SS.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar
contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely
in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of
your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for
the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking.
Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

I regularly work both weekends of SS (CW one weekend, Phone two
weeks later). Both are scored the same way, each two-way contact
counts for 2 points (a message sent and a message received).
Personally I enjoy the CW weekend more, but invariably score
higher on Phone weekend, simply because I can copy CW at only
about 45 WPM, and voice at about 300WPM.

73, de Hans, K0HB

PS: If you don't like keyers, you ain't gonna make it
contesting.

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Jack Twilley" wrote

If it is, NCI should be raising holy hell about the
pro-code conspiracy behind all these
contests, right?

One NCI Director calls contests "electronic splat ball".
Actually, I kinda like that description. One of my grandsons
asked about contesting, and I used that metaphor. Now he wants
to multi-op with me in this years SS.

You could measure it yourself, you know. Work two similar
contests
(say, two of the QSO parties coming up soon). Operate solely
in phone
for the first contest. Score your points and keep track of
your
experience with notes or something. Operate solely in CW for
the
second contest. Do the same sort of scoring and note-taking.
Report
back to the group with your personal experience.

I regularly work both weekends of SS (CW one weekend, Phone two
weeks later). Both are scored the same way, each two-way contact
counts for 2 points (a message sent and a message received).
Personally I enjoy the CW weekend more, but invariably score
higher on Phone weekend, simply because I can copy CW at only
about 45 WPM, and voice at about 300WPM.

73, de Hans, K0HB

PS: If you don't like keyers, you ain't gonna make it
contesting.


Actually I find that CW is more productive and I'm not nearly as fast at CW
(20wpm for contest, 15wpm for ragchew) as you are but then I'm just running
100watts into basic wire antennas.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote


Actually I find that CW is more productive and I'm not nearly
as fast at CW
(20wpm for contest, 15wpm for ragchew) as you are but then I'm
just running
100watts into basic wire antennas.


Do you run a frequency, or do you "search and pounce"?

If you have a modest station and you S&P, then CW will likely be
more productive because the gating factor is **getting the
attention of the target station**. CW can be better at that
because you can 'un-zero-beat' to stand out from the pile up and
use other tricks and skills.

However, if you're running a frequency, then the **speed with
which you can exchange messages** is the gating factor, and voice
is faster than Morse by quite a margin.

The November SS is a particularly good event to compare CW vs.
Phone, since the two weekends are close together (share the same
general propagation conditions) and the list of participants is
nearly identical between the two weekends so differing skill
levels and station configurations are factored out.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"KØHB" wrote in message
link.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote


Actually I find that CW is more productive and I'm not nearly
as fast at CW
(20wpm for contest, 15wpm for ragchew) as you are but then I'm
just running
100watts into basic wire antennas.


Do you run a frequency, or do you "search and pounce"?

If you have a modest station and you S&P, then CW will likely be
more productive because the gating factor is **getting the
attention of the target station**. CW can be better at that
because you can 'un-zero-beat' to stand out from the pile up and
use other tricks and skills.

However, if you're running a frequency, then the **speed with
which you can exchange messages** is the gating factor, and voice
is faster than Morse by quite a margin.

The November SS is a particularly good event to compare CW vs.
Phone, since the two weekends are close together (share the same
general propagation conditions) and the list of participants is
nearly identical between the two weekends so differing skill
levels and station configurations are factored out.

73, de Hans, K0HB


I've tried running a frequency on SSB contests but just don't get enough
takers to make it worthwhile so I finally end up doing the "search and
pounce". I'm not good enough yet to run a frequency on CW so by necessity
do "search and pounce" when operating in this mode.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

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"Hans" == groupk0hb writes:

Hans "Jack Twilley" wrote

Jack If it is, NCI should be raising holy hell about the pro-code
Jack conspiracy behind all these contests, right?

Hans One NCI Director calls contests "electronic splat ball".
Hans Actually, I kinda like that description. One of my grandsons
Hans asked about contesting, and I used that metaphor. Now he wants
Hans to multi-op with me in this years SS.

Contests mean different things to different people, as you make clear
with your postscript.

Hans I regularly work both weekends of SS (CW one weekend, Phone two
Hans weeks later). Both are scored the same way, each two-way
Hans contact counts for 2 points (a message sent and a message
Hans received). Personally I enjoy the CW weekend more, but
Hans invariably score higher on Phone weekend, simply because I can
Hans copy CW at only about 45 WPM, and voice at about 300WPM.

If you were the average ham, Hans, and the purpose of the point
multiplier was to balance out the speeds, then the multiplier would
have to be 6 to be "fair". Personally, my multiplier right now would
have to be 20, but it's a goal of mine to get it down to 2 someday.

Hans 73, de Hans, K0HB

Hans PS: If you don't like keyers, you ain't gonna make it
Hans contesting.

We definitely have different goals in contesting. I don't care about
beating anyone else. When I enter a contest, my goal is to collect as
many points as possible without losing sight of why I'm there -- to
have fun, and to become a better operator.

What's your goal?

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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