N2EY wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely for
the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty crowded
place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be on

any

CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the exclusive
subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in :

N2EY wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
v.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that
they could get on the air and only associate with like minded
individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely
for the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty
crowded place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn
CW won't be on

any

CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the
exclusive subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test
requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans
will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to
keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with
their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -



I've never pretended I don't want more phone spectrum, but there again, I
have no connection with NCI either.

There are a couple of different issues here, and they are getting mixed up.
As a phone operator, it annoys me that the FCC rules give me _smaller_
subbands than in the gentleman's agreement known as the IARU Region 2
(North & South America) bandplan (not the one drawn up by the Antiquated
Radio Relay League, which of course is a subset of the FCC rules, as they
couldn't very well suggest illegal operation).

Repealing code testing will put more people on HF who don't do CW, although
some of them will be into PSK31, etc., so there will be more pressure to do
something about this. I actually agree that NCI is not the appropriate
vehicle for that, unless the name were changed? I also agree that they said
they would go away when they won, but I'm not them.

From the CW perspective, no doubt the CW segments of any bandplan are less
than the sum total of the FCC CW and data allocations, but the data guys
have to have somewhere to go! Do you really need CW only segments to
protect yourselves from them? (I don't know the answer, this is a genuine
question, and I'm not a data person so I really have no axe to grind).

If you do think that, and that may be a reasonable position to take, I only
have one point of disagreement. Above 1842 is available to phone in the
160m bandplan, and no I'm not talking about the League, I mean the IARU
bandplan again. Since 1810-1850 is the amateur exclusive part of the band,
it just wouldn't be right for all of that to be reserved for CW (although
you could have more CW somewhere else as far as I am concerned). 8 kHz is
not too much to ask for as a DX window for phone, and at least the FCC
doesn't prohibit it even of the League have failed to recognise it. If you
ask the FCC to prohibit phone there, then you can be sure I will file a
comment to the contrary.

Alun, N3KIP

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely
for
the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty
crowded
place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be on

any

CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the
exclusive
subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -


And I wonder how a DSP filter will handle a drifty, chirping CW signal?

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

N2EY wrote:

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message

hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
. cv.net...


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely

for

the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty

crowded

place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be on

any


CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the

exclusive

subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -



And I wonder how a DSP filter will handle a drifty, chirping CW signal?

Dan/W4NTI

I've never tried it, but I suspect that it might be a great method to
make the signal go away?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
N2EY wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely
for
the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty
crowded
place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be on

any

CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the
exclusive
subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike, it sounds like you are confusing band plans and regulated segment
divistions. The HF bands have segments where only CW and data modes are
allowed by regulation. Phone and slow scan TV cannot be used at all in
those segments. However there is the "gentleman's agreement band plan"
layered on top of that. For example, in the CW/data portion, RTTY is
operated in certain segments by agreement. Up in the phone portions, the
SST enthusiasts operate in certain segments by agreement. If new hams try
to operate voice outside the voice segments on HF, they will not only be in
violation of the bandplans but will be in violation of FCC regulations,
which could cost them their licenses.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Wahoo! It's been a long, long time! But, I'll be checking back in now and
then...

Kim W5TIT

wrote in message ...
Wahoo! It's been a long, long time! But, I'll be checking back in now and
then...

Welcome back, Kim.

Hope the new home is all you expected it to be.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ...
Wahoo! It's been a long, long time! But, I'll be checking back in now and
then...

Kim W5TIT

Kim, Larry's been gone since you left. Group has just about
disintegrated. PCTA's have all but imploded. Otherwise, same stuff,
different millenium.

bb

On 27 May 2004 07:11:52 -0700, (William) wrote:

Kim, Larry's been gone since you left.

Poor guy...probably heartbroken.

73 DE John D. Kasupski
Tonawanda, New York, USA
Amateur Radio (KC2HMZ), HF/VHF/UHF Monitoring (KNY2VS)
Member ARATS, ARES, RACES, WUN

On Wed, 26 May 2004 21:59:05 -0500, "Kim W5TIT"
wrote:

Wahoo! It's been a long, long time! But, I'll be checking back in now and
then...

Kim W5TIT

Welcome back. I recently rejoined the group here myself, after a
hiatus of several months due to getting fed up with trying to
participate using open servers.

Having just switched to a new ISP that has proper NNTP access, I've
been lurking for a few weeks, amusing myself by reading the running
battle between two of the regulars (you'll no doubt discover that
thread soon enough)...have noticed several of the regulars that I can
remember through the years seem to have vanished. In the case of one
or two of those, you'll probably find that a good thing.

73 DE John D. Kasupski
Tonawanda, New York, USA
Amateur Radio (KC2HMZ), HF/VHF/UHF Monitoring (KNY2VS)
Member ARATS, ARES, RACES, WUN