On 22 Jun 2004 08:27:36 GMT, (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote:

Yep - Puerto Rico CAP is their correct State Wing callsign. Like
Florida CAP where you are, or WHITE PEAK where I am.

I'm not in Florida.

Hmmm...okay, I stand corrected. I don't know why, but for some reason,
I thought you lived in Florida. shrug

Nope....Other than working situations, have always been in Tennessee
(since joining the forum)

OK, modified statement to reflect your correct QTH would then read,
"Like Tennessee CAP where you are, or WHITE PEAK where I am."

I'm also personally aware of instances where FRS radios are used by
ARES/RACES personnel or by government or emergency services personnel.

The only instance I know of FRS/GMRS bveing used by them is as a liasion
with non-Amateur services...quite practical, actually.

With the ARES/RACES groups, that's the reason for having them, yes.
With government/emrgency services personnel there are of course other
reasons. Niagara County (NY) emergency management has GMRS portables
with the intent of using them for comms between the director and
assistant directors at the scene of an incident where they might be
called into action, or to hand to someone they themselves want to be
able to communicate with, as in the case of the one they handed to me
once last year (about five minutes after telling me not to come up on
their frequency with my own radio, hehe).

At the Thunder Over Niagara airshow a few years ago, members of one of
the local CAP groups (I believe it was a cadet wing) were using FRS
radios in the performance of their duties at the show (directing
traffic in parking lots, serving as gophers for the adults from the
composite wing at the info booth, and they also had a hamburger and
hotdog stand going). I asked one of them about it, and he told me they
used those little FRS radios a lot, even trained with them for SAR.

They were Motorola FRS radios fully loaded with all the bells and
whistles that were common on FRS radios circa 1999. At the time these
were going for about $150 each. There were about two dozen CAP members
around who had these clipped to the top shirt pockets on their BDUs.

Colorado Wing, Civil Air Patrol logged a rescue of several stranded hikers
last summer who were in a deep, tree covered ravine. One of the hikers made it
to a road, but couldn't retrace his course. The FRS radios were used to
contact them and locate them...Worked like a champ.

So the guys I met at NF aren't the only CAP personnel equipped with
and using FRS. Motorola (or someone) must appreciate the business,
because for SAR work they're probably NOT going out and buying the
cheapest radios they can find (or at least I hope they aren't).

The other EmComm group I'm with (other than Erie County ARES/RACES),
which is the public service and emcomm team sponsored by the ham radio
club I am a member of, is also starting to equip with the combined
FRS/GMRS portables that have been hitting the market recently. Our
thinking is quite simply, if it is capable of maintaining comms (with
hams and non-hams) it might come in handy, and at the inexpensive
prices these can be had for, it's worth the investment since you never
know when something like that will come in handy.

73 DE John D. Kasupski
Tonawanda, New York, USA
Amateur Radio (KC2HMZ), HF/VHF/UHF Monitoring (KNY2VS)
Member ARATS, ARES, RACES, WUN

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
Date: 6/22/2004 8:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

At the Thunder Over Niagara airshow a few years ago, members of one of
the local CAP groups (I believe it was a cadet wing) were using FRS
radios in the performance of their duties at the show (directing
traffic in parking lots, serving as gophers for the adults from the
composite wing at the info booth, and they also had a hamburger and
hotdog stand going). I asked one of them about it, and he told me they
used those little FRS radios a lot, even trained with them for SAR.

CAP has had a lot of in-fighting about FRS. Since FRS is "civilian" and
we are under NTIA, there's been a lot of arguing about the legalities of it.

Part of the argument has been cooled off by CAP's acceptance of the use of
FRS for non-USAF missions and "public service" activites.

The other half has been cooled off by NTIA's authorization of our access
to ISR. Altho still pricy by FRS standards (About $80/piece) CAP units can buy
the ICOM ISR radio and use it without any restrictions for CAP purposes.

Some Wings are allowing individuals to buy thier own and even have a
buy-back program for those who decide to leave the program. It's illegal for
private use.

So the guys I met at NF aren't the only CAP personnel equipped with
and using FRS. Motorola (or someone) must appreciate the business,
because for SAR work they're probably NOT going out and buying the
cheapest radios they can find (or at least I hope they aren't).

I'm not sure if the CO event was with a CAP-owned device or if it was one
borrowed for the purpose. Communications with persons in distress is the only
time a CAP unit can communicate via FRS while on-mission.

The other EmComm group I'm with (other than Erie County ARES/RACES),
which is the public service and emcomm team sponsored by the ham radio
club I am a member of, is also starting to equip with the combined
FRS/GMRS portables that have been hitting the market recently. Our
thinking is quite simply, if it is capable of maintaining comms (with
hams and non-hams) it might come in handy, and at the inexpensive
prices these can be had for, it's worth the investment since you never
know when something like that will come in handy.

Yep.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: Radio Amateur KC2HMZ
Date: 6/22/2004 8:30 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

At the Thunder Over Niagara airshow a few years ago, members of one of
the local CAP groups (I believe it was a cadet wing) were using FRS
radios in the performance of their duties at the show (directing
traffic in parking lots, serving as gophers for the adults from the
composite wing at the info booth, and they also had a hamburger and
hotdog stand going). I asked one of them about it, and he told me they
used those little FRS radios a lot, even trained with them for SAR.

CAP has had a lot of in-fighting about FRS. Since FRS is "civilian" and
we are under NTIA, there's been a lot of arguing about the legalities of it.

"Legalities?!?" :-) For an unlicensed radio service?!?

Maybe nursie suggest using MARS.

No, can't do that, nursie say "MARS IS amateur radio!"

:-)

Nursie made an "ace" of himself again.

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/23/2004 2:40 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

CAP has had a lot of in-fighting about FRS. Since FRS is "civilian"
and
we are under NTIA, there's been a lot of arguing about the legalities of it.

"Legalities?!?" :-) For an unlicensed radio service?!?

Don't show more ignorance than what you have already shown us, Lennie.

FRS is regulated under Part 95 of the FCC'S Rules and Regulations.

CAP, as a defacto federal agency (as attested to by the Department of
Defense, Department of the Air Force and the Attorney General of the United
States...) is obligated to operate under NTIA.

The criteria for federal agencies operating on FCC regualted radio
services is very narrow. "Routine" communications and communications
conducting the business of the organization are NOT "authorized" uses.
Opertional missions are not "legitimate" uses either, except where
inoperability or coordination with other rescue agencies is critical, are not
authorized either.

These "restrictions" are not solely applicable to CAP. They apply to all
other federal entities also.

Maybe nursie suggest using MARS.

Actually Civil Air Patrol has quite a few stations authorized to operate
in Air Force MARS, Lennie.

No, can't do that, nursie say "MARS IS amateur radio!"

:-)

Nursie made an "ace" of himself again.

No...you did, Lennie. By your lack of practical experience and
operational knowledge.

Putz..

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Steve Robeson K4CAP)
Date: 6/24/2004 3:08 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The criteria for federal agencies operating on FCC regualted radio
services is very narrow. "Routine" communications and communications
conducting the business of the organization are NOT "authorized" uses.
Opertional missions are not "legitimate" uses either, except where
inoperability or coordination with other rescue agencies is critical, are not
authorized either.

Excuse me...

"Opertational" and "interoperabiltiy".

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Steve Robeson K4CAP)
Date: 6/24/2004 3:08 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The criteria for federal agencies operating on FCC regualted radio
services is very narrow. "Routine" communications and communications
conducting the business of the organization are NOT "authorized" uses.
Opertional missions are not "legitimate" uses either, except where
inoperability or coordination with other rescue agencies is critical, are
not
authorized either.

Excuse me...

"Opertational" and "interoperabiltiy".

Oh, my...nursie be amateur radio OPERTATOR! :-)

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Steve Robeson K4CAP)
Date: 6/24/2004 3:08 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

The criteria for federal agencies operating on FCC regualted radio
services is very narrow. "Routine" communications and communications
conducting the business of the organization are NOT "authorized" uses.
Opertional missions are not "legitimate" uses either, except where
inoperability or coordination with other rescue agencies is critical, are
not
authorized either.

Excuse me...

"Opertational" and "interoperabiltiy".

Oh, my...nursie be amateur radio OPERTATOR! :-)

Nope. He just a disaBiltiy Tater!

Temper fry...

Make French Fry!

LHA / WMD

If DoD not allowed non-NTIA communication, why dey got cell phone on lip?

If "Sorry Hans, MARS IS Amateur Radio," then NTIA is FCC.

So what the problem?

Hi, hi.

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/23/2004 2:40 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

CAP has had a lot of in-fighting about FRS. Since FRS is "civilian"
and
we are under NTIA, there's been a lot of arguing about the legalities of
it.

"Legalities?!?" :-) For an unlicensed radio service?!?

Don't show more ignorance than what you have already shown us, Lennie.

FRS is regulated under Part 95 of the FCC'S Rules and Regulations.

...and NO LICENSE is required to use one. :-)

Not in "Part 15" that nursie keeps bringing up...:-)

CAP, as a defacto federal agency (as attested to by the Department of
Defense, Department of the Air Force and the Attorney General of the United
States...) is obligated to operate under NTIA.

Wow! That sounds so OFFICIAL!!!

I'll bet all the CAP aces have cute uniforms with pretty patches
and salute one another on or off the flight line...

The criteria for federal agencies operating on FCC regualted radio
services is very narrow. "Routine" communications and communications
conducting the business of the organization are NOT "authorized" uses.
Opertional missions are not "legitimate" uses either, except where
inoperability or coordination with other rescue agencies is critical, are not
authorized either.

"...where inoperability?!?" :-)

These "restrictions" are not solely applicable to CAP. They apply to all
other federal entities also.

You sound like the JIG...Judicial Inoperability Group.

Lots of word dancing. Doesn't mean much because the tune is
off key.

Maybe nursie suggest using MARS.

Actually Civil Air Patrol has quite a few stations authorized to operate
in Air Force MARS, Lennie.

Nursie say "Sorry Hans, MARS IS amateur radio!"

If MARS be amateur radio, it can't be "Air Force." Air Force be
military.

No, can't do that, nursie say "MARS IS amateur radio!"

:-)

Nursie made an "ace" of himself again.

No...you did, Lennie. By your lack of practical experience and
operational knowledge.

Nursie be stuck on "inoperability" with most things here. :-)

DoD 4650.2 (eff. 21 Nov 03). Ever hear of it?

Putz..

Tsk, tsk, tsk. More "meaningful discourse?"

No, just nursie's dissing and cussing.

Perfect example of the best that ham radio can be?

Temper fry...

LHA / WMD

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: The Game's Afoot!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 6/23/2004 2:40 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

CAP has had a lot of in-fighting about FRS. Since FRS is "civilian"
and
we are under NTIA, there's been a lot of arguing about the legalities of
it.

"Legalities?!?" :-) For an unlicensed radio service?!?

Don't show more ignorance than what you have already shown us, Lennie.

FRS is regulated under Part 95 of the FCC'S Rules and Regulations.

...and NO LICENSE is required to use one. :-)

Not in "Part 15" that nursie keeps bringing up...:-)

"No, No! Not Fact! Yell and Yell til Vein Pop Out!"

CAP, as a defacto federal agency (as attested to by the Department of
Defense, Department of the Air Force and the Attorney General of the United
States...) is obligated to operate under NTIA.

Wow! That sounds so OFFICIAL!!!

Why he say "defacto?" Like fact? Fact-like? Maybe new fact?

CAP belong Air Force. Air Force not Federal. It Defense Department.

I'll bet all the CAP aces have cute uniforms with pretty patches
and salute one another on or off the flight line...

Make Michilin Man think Pillsbury Dough-Boy a Cutie-Pie.

The criteria for federal agencies operating on FCC regualted radio
services is very narrow. "Routine" communications and communications
conducting the business of the organization are NOT "authorized" uses.
Opertional missions are not "legitimate" uses either, except where
inoperability or coordination with other rescue agencies is critical, are not
authorized either.

"...where inoperability?!?" :-)

Might mean interoperability. Who know?

Federal agency operate on FCC "regualted radio."

Defense agency operate on NTIA "regualted radio."

These "restrictions" are not solely applicable to CAP. They apply to all
other federal entities also.

You sound like the JIG...Judicial Inoperability Group.

He make Court Martial. He judge, he prosecutor, he jury, he jailer,
he executioner, he undertaker, he worm.

Lots of word dancing. Doesn't mean much because the tune is
off key.

He have on-key music in head.

Maybe nursie suggest using MARS.

Actually Civil Air Patrol has quite a few stations authorized to operate
in Air Force MARS, Lennie.

Nursie say "Sorry Hans, MARS IS amateur radio!"

If MARS be amateur radio, it can't be "Air Force." Air Force be
military.

Uh, oh. Now he yell and yell til vein pop out. He say dat not fact.
He know fact.

No, can't do that, nursie say "MARS IS amateur radio!"

:-)

Nursie made an "ace" of himself again.

No...you did, Lennie. By your lack of practical experience and
operational knowledge.

Nursie be stuck on "inoperability" with most things here. :-)

He head inoperable.

DoD 4650.2 (eff. 21 Nov 03). Ever hear of it?

No fact! No fact! He yell and yell til vein pop out. He mad.

Putz..

Tsk, tsk, tsk. More "meaningful discourse?"

He only mean discourse.

No, just nursie's dissing and cussing.

Perfect example of the best that ham radio can be?

He Ham Radio Icon.

Temper fry...

He clickable so easy.

LHA / WMD

"William" wrote


Air Force not Federal.


Sunuvagun?

Good luck on this one now!

73, de Hans, K0HB