RadioBanter - Lest We Forget

In .com writes:

From: Paul W. Schleck on Mon,Apr 18 2005 12:03 pm

In . com
writes:

wrote:
From: on Apr 12, 8:00 pm
wrote:
From: N2EY on Apr 12, 4:20 pm

*snip!*

Yet you make this BIG THING about morse code
in a window display...

Is it wrong to mention an interesting architectural feature?

Morse code is NOW an "interesting architectural feature?"

The windows are an interesting architectural feature.

Way back in Usenet history(early 90's), there were posts signed by an
author named "Serdar Argic" who repetitively posted about the Armenian
murders of Turks in 1918:

http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/zumabot.html

(Reputable historians agree that the killing was the other way
around.)

Some interesting similarities to Len:

1. My ancestry is Scandinavian, not of the Middle East.

2. I have NO disputes on either Armenia or Turkey.

3. I have no "home page" on the Internet, nor am I a
registered domain user on same.

4. Why do you insist there are "similarities" to
anything in or near the Middle East? I have
NEVER used a screen name of "Serdar Argic."

By taking things too literally, you have missed the point (and also
further proving you have no sense of irony, humor, or self-deprecation,
all important examples of human emotional intelligence that, by the way,
could be detected by, oh, I don't know, a Turing Test maybe?).

I, of course, do not think that you are 100% Serdar Argic. I'm happy to
clarify that for you. Rather, you act very much like Serdar Argic in
many ways, and I thought the newsgroup readers would be amused by my
pointing that out. I figured that you would not be amused. I didn't
figure that you wouldn't understand why WE were amused.

- Serdar responded to each and every mention of "Turkey" or "Armenia,"
no matter the context, with long harangues about his interpretation
of
history.

- Len responds to each and every mention of "Morse Code," no matter
the
context, with long harangues about his interpretation of history.

Explain my "interpretation." As one who was IN
communications for a long time, IN the electronics
industry for a long time, HAVE extensive backup
literature on communications methods, I'm not
"interpreting" anything.

Here's just a few examples that I could find in the few minutes that I
searched in Google (try the query "wrong Len
group:rec.radio.amateur.policy" at http://groups.google.com):

- The MARS program does not rely on radio amateurs (it does)

- Dave Heil, K8MN, does not appear on any official list of staff at a
U.S. Embassy (he does)

- Steve Robeson, K4YZ, did not serve in Marine Corps, or if he did, he
did not serve honorably (he did serve, and serve honorably).

- Any claim of an amateur balloon going to 100,000 feet is suspect, as a
latex weather balloon will burst at 50,000 feet (Kaymont makes one
rated at 100,000 feet that is affordable to amateurs).

- All amateur radio licensees are perfectly legal to continue operating
in their grace period (only if they renewed before expiration).

- Collins Radio did very little innovation in SSB (What about the
Permeability Tuned Oscillator, PTO, or their 1930's patent for a
phasing transmitter, or just the fact that they were able to put it
all together into a rugged, compact, and reliable package that was
just what the USAF needed, and was available at just the right time,
not theoretically, or only in a patent application, or only on a
blueprint, or in a better implementation that wouldn't be available
until years in the future, and we only realize now after decades of
20/20 hindsight?).

I characterize these as interpretations either because they are wrong
(can be rebutted by facts), or are expressions of opinions (usually
sweeping, black-and-white assumptions that can be counter-argued into
many shades of gray).

- Any attempt to engage Serdar in debate resulted in him insulting
others with invectives like "Gum Brain," "Wieneramus," "your
Criminal Armenian Grandparents" (even others who were, say, ethnic
Japanese), and "A mouthpiece for the fascist x-Soviet Armenian
Government."

- Any attempt to engage Len in debate results in him insulting others
with invectives like "Gunnery Nurse," "Katapult King," "Macho
Morsemen," and "A believer in the Church of St. Hiram."

AFTER I had been personally insulted a number of ways,
i.e., called a "PUTZ," "LIAR," "deceitful," AND had
members of my family (alive or dead), especially my
wife, insulted in public...I decided to "return fire"
in the same way. Civility in opposition to anything
I wrote was not "discussion" but a series of personal
insults and harrassment actions, both on and off the
newsgroup.

What I have seen is something like Israel/Palestine, or Serbia/Bosnia,
where the conflict has been ratcheted up incrementally until it becomes
personal on both sides. You have certainly done your share of
escalation, spoiling for fights, and picking new fights. You remind me
of the type of person that the police regularly drag out of barroom
brawls, or that school principals separate on the elementary school
playground, and usually with both sides screaming, "But HE started
it!!!!" At that point, it doesn't matter who started it, because you
have what are called "unclean hands," and thus garner no sympathy from
me, or others.

Your spoiling for a fight caused you to lash out at Jim, N2EY, in a
situation where you were not directly attacked, your basic arguments
about Morse Code were not explicitly contradicted, and you chose to
reply (post #2, in response to his post #1 in the thread) in a manner
that was completely off-topic and ad-hominem. I might have even given
you a pass (by not replying) if you had argued something like, "Well, I
don't think that Morse Code deserves such architectural worship in a
World War II exhibit by implying that it has the same status as, say,
Egyptian Hieroglyphics in an exhibit about Egyptology." Instead, you
ripped into Jim with an accusation that he didn't have military service
(an off-topic, ad-hominem attack that could only be replied with,
"Yes/No/Maybe/So What?"), then tried to drag him into some silly
argument over whether Morse Code could be an "interesting architectural
feature." That's when I dropped in on the thread.

Jim and I have disagreed on many things, but I don't like to see a
fellow ham attacked in that way. As you can see, the ham community will
close ranks and will defend each other vigorously if that happens.
That's not a threat, merely a pragmatic observation that you are not
winning friends or influencing people here. Whatever merit you may have
originally had is now completely wasted, and falls on deaf ears.

- While somewhat amusing at first, with posters able to easily rebut
Serdar, even writing parodies mocking the overwrought style of the
posts, the amusement turned to annoyance when the sheer volume of
his
posts overwhelmed any on-topic discussion.

- While somewhat amusing at first, with posters able to easily rebut
Len, even writing parodies mocking the overwrought style of the
posts,
the amusement turned to annoyance when the sheer volume of his posts
overwhelmed any on-topic discussion.

"Overwrought?" :-) Merely responses in kind.

"Sheer volume of posts?" Have you examined the Google
statistics for individual messagers or actually
EXAMINED the CONTENT of the newsgroup postings?

What a silly question. Of course, I have examined the record, that's
why I have come to the conclusions that I have. According to Google
Groups (search for " at
http://groups.google.ca, as the Beta version at groups.google.com still
has a number of serious bugs), you have posted as "
about 6,230 times since December of 2000. That's an average of 3-4
posts *per day* for almost 5 years. Surely you must be repeating
yourself. Not even John Updike or James Michener could generate that
much output and still be original. I used the principal address you
used over the years. If I threw in your recent switch to
" (probably due to AOL shutting down news service),
and any other address you used earlier (you previously said you have
been posting to the newsgroups for about 7 years), I'm sure the
statistics would be even higher.

Furthermore, most recent threads show you replying, and
counter-replying, and counter-counter-replying, and ..., doing more than
your share of contributing to run-on arguments. In this most recent
thread, you have made about 21 out of the 141 posts to date, and will
probably make many more. Do you really need the last word that badly?
("But HE started it!" is not a defense.)

Apparently NOT. Or, the "authority" is rather biased.

The following response of yours exhibiting your obvious persecution
complex is a perfect example of your overwrought replies:

In the past, I've given what was thought to be some
examples of communications modes and methods that I
was a party to, knew about, or could double-check
through disinterested third parties. What I got in
response was the usual personal insults for NOT
adhering to the "authority" on amateur radio as
stated by the ARRL...or NOT adhering to the pet
desires of individuals whose personal views were
taken as "applying to ALL in amateur radio." [those
did not, but that was irrelevant to such posters]

- Serdar failed his Turing Test for human intelligence when it became
clear that he could not distinguish between Turkey, the country, and
Turkey, the meat. For example, his postings went up dramatically in
the first two weeks preceding American Thanksgiving, strongly
suggesting that the posts were written and posted by some kind of AI
or "bot."

- Len's sentience, and ability to pass the Turing Test, is left as an
exercise for the reader. As a first test, Len is invited to guess
my
positions on Morse Code.

The following response of yours about the "Turing Test" joke is a perfect
example of your overwrought replies:

WHAT "Turing Tests" apply in here? Are you implying
(which is transparently obvious on reading) that I am
some kind of "Artificial Intelligence?" Is everyone
required to "pass a test" to perform as a robot and
mechanically utter all the quaint "standards" of
yesteryear? Are all robots in here "supposed" to
obey - without question - what the ARRL commands?

Alan Turing was considered a genius at cryptography
and methods of attack (solutions to cryptographic
problems). Alan Turing was also a homosexual and,
when exposed, took his own life. That was long ago.

Are you homosexual, Len? Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging you if so
("Not that there's anything wrong with that," as Seinfeld would say).
However, you did bring it up, and past persecution would explain the
persecution complex you display today. I, and others, might even feel
some degree of sympathy for you if you were. I figured you brought the
subject up either because you were homosexual, or wished to characterize
all hams as homophobic, or are even presuming to raise your persecution
to the degree that Turing suffered.

Suddenly, for some odd reason, I am implied as
"failing" a "Turing Test" by NOT ACCEPTING old,
antiquated standards in an amateur radio hobby
activity!?! So be it. I am NOT a robot. I am
NOT artificial (all natural ingredients).

If there is any "failing" of a "Turing Test," then
I would judge the "authority of the newsgroup" to
be deficient in handling a public dispute by a
technique of mockery and attempts at humiliation.
As one who has been IN computer-modem communication
for 20 years - not counting sporadic viewing of the
old ARPANET and original USENET before that - and
as a former co-sysop of one BBS and a moderator on
two other BBSs...I find this "technique" of handling
certain individuals to be faulty in the extreme.

You should give careful thought, using whatever
intelligence is there, artificial or not, to closing
access from public to private. Select ONLY those
who conform to Group Think, who say nice-nice to all
the self-defined gurus, and respect the ENTIRETY of
U.S. amateur radio customs and traditions, wishing
to keep OLD standards forever. CLOSE this place off.
Do NOT let any "riff-raff" in. Demand "dedication"
and "committment" to old standards, ideas, and
(especially) the mythology. Demand "involvement"
FIRST...by licensing, something by which "to show
papers." Do NOT, under any circumstances, allow
the First Amendment Rights of Americans to operate
in here. Think of that as the "Orwell Test." It
doesn't have the mythological mystique of "Turing
Test" but it is nonetheless as artificial.

Speaking of tests, you didn't answer my challenge that you guess my
positions on Morse Code. Either you don't know, or you realize that
arguing with me isn't about Morse Code, it's about your desire to fight
just for the sake of fighting, whether people could conceivably agree
with you or not. I also recall that there was one specific circumstance
that I agreed with you on another topic, and disagreed with every other
poster, in a recent thread. Can you name the topic?

I refuse to meet any "Orwell Test." Have a nice
day, Mr. Asimov...

"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"

- Monty Python, "The Holy Grail"

--
73, Paul W. Schleck, K3FU

http://www.novia.net/~pschleck/
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