"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting a ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code to chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier and reliably
over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc... that is REAL. THAT
is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands in danger of being
lost... that is holding our numbers at such low levels the FCC begins to
find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all time high.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting a ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code to chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier and
reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc... that is
REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands in danger
of being lost... that is holding our numbers at such low levels the FCC
begins to find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all time high.


It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other words, the guy
has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because it is not the
Internet.

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs... If they
cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or if they
cannot see why there should and would be differences between the two - then
I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) - associated with TAPR
or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to the
amateur radio hobby.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

Charles:

You are correct. And ham radio has really become irrelevant...

The millions or billions even who are on the internet give it meaning,
purpose and a self-sustaining argument for its existence...

.... all the things which ham radio DOES NOT have...

John

"Charles Brabham" wrote in message
. ..

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting a
ham license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code to
chat with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier
and reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc...
that is REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting
bands in danger of being lost... that is holding our numbers at
such low levels the FCC begins to find us more a bother than
anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all time
high.


It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other words,
the guy has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because
it is not the Internet.

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs... If
they cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or
if they cannot see why there should and would be differences between
the two - then I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) -
associated with TAPR or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to the
amateur radio hobby.

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

Charles Brabham wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting a ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code to chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier and
reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc... that is
REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands in danger
of being lost... that is holding our numbers at such low levels the FCC
begins to find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all time high.

Yes - both in total numbers of US hams, and the ratio of hams to the
total US population.

In recent years the totals have begun to go down, and the percentage of
the
population as well. Reducing the license test requirements in 2000 has
not brought growth, yet some folks insist that more and more reductions
in test requirements are the only solution.

It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other words, the guy
has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because it is not the
Internet.

BINGO!

Yet it is exactly the fact that amateur radio *is not* the internet
that is
the draw!

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs... If they
cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or if they
cannot see why there should and would be differences between the two - then
I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) - associated with TAPR
or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to the
amateur radio hobby.

Makes sense to me!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

N2EY:

One point you got right, ham radio HAS TO compete with a superior form
of communication--the internet!

And, the only way it can is drop the code...

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
Charles Brabham wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting a
ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code to
chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier and
reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc...
that is
REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands in
danger
of being lost... that is holding our numbers at such low levels
the FCC
begins to find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all time
high.

Yes - both in total numbers of US hams, and the ratio of hams to the
total US population.

In recent years the totals have begun to go down, and the percentage
of
the
population as well. Reducing the license test requirements in 2000 has
not brought growth, yet some folks insist that more and more
reductions
in test requirements are the only solution.

It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other words,
the guy
has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because it is
not the
Internet.

BINGO!

Yet it is exactly the fact that amateur radio *is not* the internet
that is
the draw!

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs... If
they
cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or if
they
cannot see why there should and would be differences between the
two - then
I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) - associated
with TAPR
or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to
the
amateur radio hobby.

Makes sense to me!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

One point you got right, ham radio HAS TO compete with a
superior form of communication--the internet!

For some uses the internet is better than ham radio. For other
uses ham radio is better. The competition is for time only.

And, the only way it can is drop the code...

Do you mean hams should stop using Morse Code, or that there
should not be a Morse Code *test*?

In either case, how will that help ham radio compete for
time?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Charles Brabham wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting a
ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code to
chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier and
reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc...
that is
REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands in
danger
of being lost... that is holding our numbers at such low levels
the FCC
begins to find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all time
high.

Yes - both in total numbers of US hams, and the ratio of hams to the
total US population.

In recent years the totals have begun to go down, and the percentage
of
the
population as well. Reducing the license test requirements in 2000 has
not brought growth, yet some folks insist that more and more
reductions
in test requirements are the only solution.

It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other words,
the guy
has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because it is
not the
Internet.

BINGO!

Yet it is exactly the fact that amateur radio *is not* the internet
that is
the draw!

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs... If
they
cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or if
they
cannot see why there should and would be differences between the
two - then
I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) - associated
with TAPR
or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to
the
amateur radio hobby.

Makes sense to me!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

N2EY:

I mean you have convinced me you are hopeless... you don't see a
problem... you are fine with the numbers... I don't think you give a
damn if we ever get enough young hams in here to make it interesting...
frankly I just don't think you give a damn about anything but status
quo... you have convinced me you are stone set in your ways and think
everything is fine... go for it... we will see as time passes... the
bands are boring and that is the way you like 'em--have at it... I got
the internet to chat on while I wait...

John

wrote in message
ups.com...
John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

One point you got right, ham radio HAS TO compete with a
superior form of communication--the internet!

For some uses the internet is better than ham radio. For other
uses ham radio is better. The competition is for time only.

And, the only way it can is drop the code...

Do you mean hams should stop using Morse Code, or that there
should not be a Morse Code *test*?

In either case, how will that help ham radio compete for
time?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Charles Brabham wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting
a
ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code
to
chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier
and
reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc...
that is
REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands
in
danger
of being lost... that is holding our numbers at such low
levels
the FCC
begins to find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all
time
high.

Yes - both in total numbers of US hams, and the ratio of hams to
the
total US population.

In recent years the totals have begun to go down, and the
percentage
of
the
population as well. Reducing the license test requirements in 2000
has
not brought growth, yet some folks insist that more and more
reductions
in test requirements are the only solution.

It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is
only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other
words,
the guy
has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because it is
not the
Internet.

BINGO!

Yet it is exactly the fact that amateur radio *is not* the internet
that is
the draw!

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs...
If
they
cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or if
they
cannot see why there should and would be differences between the
two - then
I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) - associated
with TAPR
or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to
the
amateur radio hobby.

Makes sense to me!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

I mean you have convinced me you are hopeless...

Actually I'm *hopeful*, John. I simply don't agree with you
about some things that you take for granted as facts.

You really don't seem to be open to change...

you don't see a problem... you are fine with the numbers...

Those claims are incorrect. I do see a problem with declining
numbers of US hams. I just don't blindly accept your one-step
solution, that's all.

I don't think you give a
damn if we ever get enough young hams in here to make it interesting...

That claim is incorrect in at least two ways.

First off, I would like to see more hams - of all ages, and from all
walks of life. But not at the cost of trashing the amateur radio
service in the blind pursuit of numbers.

Second, I think hams of all ages can be "interesting". I don't have an
age bias against young or old, male or female.

frankly I just don't think you give a damn about anything but status
quo...

That claim is incorrect also.

you have convinced me you are stone set in your ways and think
everything is fine... go for it... we will see as time passes...

We have seen that reducing the license test requirements in 2000
led to a short-term peak in the number of US hams, followed by a
decline
to levels lower than before the restructuring.

But we're only talking a few percent.

the bands are boring

To you. Not to everyone. Perhaps you could tell us how to
make them more interesting?

and that is the way you like 'em--

That claim is incorrect.

I have interesting QSOs every time I'm on the ham bands. Of course
I'm rarely using 'phone - I'm usually on Morse Code (CW). Last night 40
meters was full of Morse Code signals from 7000 to 7060 or so. Some
interesting conversations. I fired up my Elecraft K2 at the 5 watt
level
and had a nice chat with a ham in Indiana.

have at it... I got
the internet to chat on while I wait...

To each his own.


wrote in message
ups.com...
John Smith wrote:
N2EY:

One point you got right, ham radio HAS TO compete with a
superior form of communication--the internet!

For some uses the internet is better than ham radio. For other
uses ham radio is better. The competition is for time only.

And, the only way it can is drop the code...

Do you mean hams should stop using Morse Code, or that there
should not be a Morse Code *test*?

In either case, how will that help ham radio compete for
time?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Charles Brabham wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

I have asked the young men why they have no interest in getting
a
ham
license, it is because of the limitations placed on the no code
license--and the fact they are not interested in learning code
to
chat
with someone DX--a task which can be accomplished much easier
and
reliably over the net with instant messaging, IRC chat, etc...
that is
REAL. THAT is dropping the numbers of hams and putting bands
in
danger
of being lost... that is holding our numbers at such low
levels
the FCC
begins to find us more a bother than anything else...


This does NOT make sense when our numbers are near their all
time
high.

Yes - both in total numbers of US hams, and the ratio of hams to
the
total US population.

In recent years the totals have begun to go down, and the
percentage
of
the
population as well. Reducing the license test requirements in 2000
has
not brought growth, yet some folks insist that more and more
reductions
in test requirements are the only solution.

It's just another one of those guys who thinks that Ham Radio is
only
relevant in as much as it resembles the Internet. - In other
words,
the guy
has no clue about the hobby but wants to run it down because it is
not the
Internet.

BINGO!

Yet it is exactly the fact that amateur radio *is not* the internet
that is
the draw!

I use this attitude as a handy intelligence test for amateurs...
If
they
cannot differentiate between Amateur Radio and the Internet, or if
they
cannot see why there should and would be differences between the
two - then
I know that they are brain-damaged ( or even worse ) - associated
with TAPR
or the ARRL's HSMM group.

In any case the attitude indicates a clueless state in relation to
the
amateur radio hobby.

Makes sense to me!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

One point you got right, ham radio HAS TO compete with a superior form of
communication--the internet!

You got that wrong, right off the bat. Ham Radio and the non-ham stuff both
have thier good and bad points. That is to say; Both are superior to the
other - and inferior to the other at the same time. It is most accurate to
just say that they are different.


And, the only way it can is drop the code...

How about hopping on one leg with a paper sack over our heads, squawking
like a chicken? - It would have about the same amount of positive effect.

You seem to be really loaded up with ignorant and anti-ham catch-phrases,
easy to parrot I suppose. Did you pick up the ignorant attitudes at:

a. TAPR
b. ARRL HSMM group
c. WL2K
d. ARESCOM

.... Or is there some other source of utter cluelessness that you have
associated yourself with?

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php

Charles:

That is an excellent "theory", too bad all anyone has to do is open
their eyes and look around to immediately prove it false...

John

"Charles Brabham" wrote in message
m...

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
N2EY:

One point you got right, ham radio HAS TO compete with a superior
form of communication--the internet!

You got that wrong, right off the bat. Ham Radio and the non-ham stuff
both have thier good and bad points. That is to say; Both are superior
to the other - and inferior to the other at the same time. It is most
accurate to just say that they are different.


And, the only way it can is drop the code...

How about hopping on one leg with a paper sack over our heads,
squawking like a chicken? - It would have about the same amount of
positive effect.

You seem to be really loaded up with ignorant and anti-ham
catch-phrases, easy to parrot I suppose. Did you pick up the ignorant
attitudes at:

a. TAPR
b. ARRL HSMM group
c. WL2K
d. ARESCOM

... Or is there some other source of utter cluelessness that you have
associated yourself with?

Charles Brabham, N5PVL

Director: USPacket http://www.uspacket.org
Admin: HamBlog.Com http://www.hamblog.com
Webmaster: HamPoll.Com http://www.hampoll.com
Weblog: http://www.hamblog.com/blog_n5pvl.php