Boy did you fall for a bunch of propaganda! Although we have fallen off the all time high as far as numbers go, we are in no significant decline. Rather we are in a period of stabilization. Some weeks ago, I had shown the hams as a percentage of population and it's been holding pretty stable. Unfortunately, I had a bit of a computer problem and lost the file. When I get time, I'll have to research the data again and recreate the file.

As far as the declining number of manufacturers goes, the normal progression in any business is towards fewer companies serving the market. Unless one takes steps to stop it, a free market economy goes through a cycle. New product with lots of new companies. Then continuing consolidation until there is a near monopoly by one or a handful of companies. Occasionally, a new company will break in but not too often. This has happened in EVERY industry not just radio manufacturing. At least a dozen car companies, if not more, have come and gone in the US and we are down to three. Dozens of computer companies have come and gone. Dozens of software companies and so on.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
"Joe Guthart" wrote in message ...
I am glad the FCC finally took charge of the situation and decided to drop the code requirements. Here's why ...

I like Amateur Radio and want it to be a life-long hobby for me ... however, I just plainly can't take time to effectively study the code at this point in my life. I think my story is pretty common for most of the new people entering Amateur Radio today. I am a 43 year old married father of three children. I have a background in Aerospace Engineering and my full time work is in the high technology sector working with many well known computing infrastructure companies. I got my Technician license about two and a half years ago because it was a neat little challenge for me to combine radio communications with some of the newer digital modes. Basically, it was fun, not really technical challenging, but a nice way to relax. I do enjoy making contacts on 6 meters. I would play around with some different radio, antenna, and computer configurations and started to develop a relationship with some fellow ham buddies. Soon I became limited with the VHF/UHF band and wanted to hop onto HF. Of course, by the current rules one would have to jump on and take on learning Morse Code. I am absolutely sure I could do this if I had enough time. Having an ongoing career and being a family man, doesn't really leave a whole lot of time to practice dits and dahs. I have actually played around with the code several times, but real life events and changing priorities always got in the way; not en excuse just reality. I really do see learning the code as similar to my older engineering brethren making me learn how to use a slide rule; it's kind of neat, but not really effective for me, or most folks, given the advance of other computing methods and devices.

Fellow hams need to sit back and take an objective look at this hobby because it is dying a rapid death! Amateur Radio needs me and people just like me to join in on the HF bands and to use our real world high tech expertise to help further Amateur Radio. Amateur Radio also needs my $$$$. Take a look at the declining number of amateur radio manufacturers and radios. How could any business justify spending a lot on research and development in a market that is collapsing?

Finally, I honor all those of you who are code proficient. I too may one day still be code proficient even if there is no formal testing. However, I do think that the right decision has been made by the FCC and will ultimately be finalized with little changes. This will not kill our hobby, but will inject more life into it.

73's to All,

Joe / KG4YJS

Dee Flint wrote:
Boy did you fall for a bunch of propaganda!

Amen. In spades.

As far as the declining number of manufacturers goes, the normal progression in any business
is towards fewer companies serving the market. Unless one takes steps to stop it, a
free market economy goes through a cycle. New product with lots of new companies. Then
continuing consolidation until there is a near monopoly by one or a handful of companies.

That's true in general Dee but what "declining number of manufacturers"
- within the context of ham radio? It just ain't so. I suspect that if
somebody put the effort into pulling together the actual facts they'd
find that the total number of manufacturers in the ham radio market is
higher today than it's ever been in the past.

Almost all of the "glory-days" U.S. supply siders went bust or
abandoned the ham radio market and moved on to survive when the JA's
landed 1975-1980. Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, Alinco, Honda, Toyota and
Datsun pulled off what Yamamoto and Nagumo failed to pull off their way
a bit earlier. Within ham radio Hallicrafters, Swan, National,
Hammarlund, Drake and Heath simply evaporated with barely a trace left
in the ham biz, Collins is one which simply moved on. Not a
consolidation in sight anywhere.

Off on another tangent consider the implications of another aspect:
Collins offered only two basics routes a ham could use to get on the HF
bands with their gear at any given point in time. One xcvr and one pair
of separates. Period. Ditto Drake and for the most part Heath too.
Those three companies overwhelmingly dominated the HF ham gear market
for years. Today Icom is offering four desktop HF xcvrs with two more
in the pipeline, Kenwood offers four, and Yeasu has seven in their
catalog with another one coming. Ten-tec and Elecraft are doing nicely.
Not counting all the HF mobile rigs and the equipment being developed
in various skunk works. Yeah it's a free market economy cycle alrighty.


We've never had it better and it keeps getting better. These Junior
Grade "the sky is falling" yahoos need to be written off as as just
that.

w3rv

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
Boy did you fall for a bunch of propaganda!

Amen. In spades.

As far as the declining number of manufacturers goes,
the normal progression in any business
is towards fewer companies serving the market.
Unless one takes steps to stop it, a
free market economy goes through a cycle.
New product with lots of new companies. Then
continuing consolidation until there is a near monopoly by
one or a handful of companies.

That's true in general Dee but what "declining number
of manufacturers"
- within the context of ham radio? It just ain't so.
I suspect that if
somebody put the effort into pulling together the actual
facts they'd
find that the total number of manufacturers in the ham
radio market is
higher today than it's ever been in the past.

Well, let's see...

Back in the '60s we had Collins, Drake, National,
Hallicrafters, Hammarlund, Gonset, Heath, Swan, Johnson...
and that's about it for major manufacturers of ham gear
that lasted more than a few years and made more than a
few products. Even in the above list there were limitations
because many of the above did not offer a complete line (EFJ
made mostly transmitters, for example).

Today we have Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, TenTec, Alinco, Standard,
Elecraft, SGC, and maybe a few more. But see below.

Almost all of the "glory-days" U.S. supply siders went bust or
abandoned the ham radio market and moved on to survive when the JA's landed 1975-1980. Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, Alinco, Honda,
Toyota and
Datsun pulled off what Yamamoto and Nagumo failed to pull off
their way
a bit earlier. Within ham radio Hallicrafters, Swan, National,
Hammarlund, Drake and Heath simply evaporated with barely a
trace left
in the ham biz, Collins is one which simply moved on. Not a
consolidation in sight anywhere.

Yep. In some cases it was that the founder had died or retired, and the
company wasn't able to adjust to the new market reality.

This didn't just happen in ham gear - consumer electronics
went the same route. PCs followed.

Off on another tangent consider the implications of another
aspect:
Collins offered only two basics routes a ham could use to get
on the HF
bands with their gear at any given point in time. One xcvr and one pair
of separates. Period. Ditto Drake and for the most part Heath
too.

Drake and Heath had slightly more elaborate product lines - but not by
much. The point is still valid, though. The variety of new rigs today
is amazing.

Here's a game: Look up all the "100 watt class" HF rigs available today
(mid 2005). Compare to what was available 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
I bet today's variety is the largest.

Those three companies overwhelmingly dominated the HF ham
gear market
for years. Today Icom is offering four desktop HF xcvrs
with two more
in the pipeline, Kenwood offers four, and Yeasu has seven
in their
catalog with another one coming. Ten-tec and Elecraft are doing nicely.

Yup - even the small outfits offer product lines that are more
diverse than the big boys offered in "the bad old days".

Not counting all the HF mobile rigs and the equipment being
developed in various skunk works.

*And* not counting the enormous variety of clean, late-model used
equipment that is still very much usable. Take TenTec - if an Orion is
too much and you don't like the Jupiter, there's the Omni 6 in various
flavors, its predecessor the Omni V, the Pegasus, the Paragon, and the
Corsair 2, among others.

Yeah it's a free market economy cycle alrighty.

We've never had it better and it keeps getting better.

The big change is the cost in inflation-adjusted dollars.

The other night I saw an ad for the Kenwood TS-520 in a 1975 QST. $629.
That was back in the days when a new car was less than $4000 and
starting salary for a degreed engineer was maybe $12,000.

That TS-520 was a nice rig in its time, and can still do a good job.
But it won't do the WARC bands, has analog readout, no passband tuning,
no ATU, no RS-232 port, no memories and no blanker. The external second
VFO, CW filter, 12VDC supply and digital readout were extra-cost
features ($179 for the digital readout alone!)

It did have three tubes inside (driver and finals) and you could turn
off their heaters if you wanted. Of course you had to tune it up...

What's $629 from 1975 equate to in 2005, adjusted for inflation?
Probably as much as an IC-756 costs now.

Or look at the SB-101 from the mid 1960s. $369 for the rig, almost
another hundred for the power supply, CW filter and speaker. Say $450 -
for a kit! What's that in today's dollars?


73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
wrote:

I knew I'd coax you outta yer lair when I tossed that one out.

I suspect that if
somebody put the effort into pulling together the actual
facts they'd
find that the total number of manufacturers in the ham
radio market is
higher today than it's ever been in the past.

Well, let's see...

Back in the '60s we had Collins, Drake, National,
Hallicrafters, Hammarlund, Gonset, Heath, Swan, Johnson...

.. . . five dollar 12V ARC-5 Jeep radios . . . or were they 6V?

and that's about it for major manufacturers of ham gear
that lasted more than a few years and made more than a
few products. Even in the above list there were limitations
because many of the above did not offer a complete line (EFJ
made mostly transmitters, for example).

Today we have Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, TenTec, Alinco, Standard,
Elecraft, SGC, and maybe a few more. But see below.

.. . . yeah, OK so far . . .

. . . Within ham radio Hallicrafters, Swan, National,
Hammarlund, Drake and Heath simply evaporated with barely a
trace left . . .

Yep. In some cases it was that the founder had died or retired, and the
company wasn't able to adjust to the new market reality.

Founders exits aside it was the "adjusting to the new market realities"
which knocked out the U.S. radio builders. GM is still trying to catch
up with Honda. Darwin prevails.

. . . Collins offered only two basics routes a ham could use to get
on the HF
bands with their gear at any given point in time. One xcvr and one pair
of separates. Period. Ditto Drake and for the most part Heath
too.

Drake and Heath had slightly more elaborate product lines - but not by
much. The point is still valid, though. The variety of new rigs today
is amazing.

Not even a discussion.

Here's a game: Look up all the "100 watt class" HF rigs available today
(mid 2005). Compare to what was available 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
I bet today's variety is the largest.

Not even a discussion

Not counting all the HF mobile rigs and the equipment being
developed in various skunk works.

*And* not counting the enormous variety of clean, late-model used
equipment that is still very much usable. Take TenTec - if an Orion is
too much and you don't like the Jupiter, there's the Omni 6 in various
flavors, its predecessor the Omni V, the Pegasus, the Paragon, and the
Corsair 2, among others.

Well yeah, scarfing up used gear to get more bang for the buck has been
a ham tradition going back into the mists of time long before either of
us came about.

The other night I saw an ad for the Kenwood TS-520 in a 1975 QST. $629.
That was back in the days when a new car was less than $4000 and
starting salary for a degreed engineer was maybe $12,000.

Sounds low to me because most of my classmates started for $9-10k right
out of school in 1963. I started for $7,600 for the gummint which was
quite low then.

Or look at the SB-101 from the mid 1960s. $369 for the rig, almost
another hundred for the power supply, CW filter and speaker. Say $450 -
for a kit! What's that in today's dollars?

Beats me but the point is there.

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

I knew I'd coax you outta yer lair when I tossed that one out.

bwaahaahaa

Back in the '60s we had Collins, Drake, National,
Hallicrafters, Hammarlund, Gonset, Heath, Swan, Johnson...

. . . five dollar 12V ARC-5 Jeep radios . . . or were they 6V?

I've seen 12 volt ARC-5s (special units from a collection) and it was
no hard task to convert them for six volts. Easy compared to
homebrewing.

and that's about it for major manufacturers of ham gear
that lasted more than a few years and made more than a
few products. Even in the above list there were limitations
because many of the above did not offer a complete line (EFJ
made mostly transmitters, for example).

Today we have Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood, TenTec, Alinco, Standard,
Elecraft, SGC, and maybe a few more. But see below.

. . . yeah, OK so far . . .

. . . Within ham radio Hallicrafters, Swan, National,
Hammarlund, Drake and Heath simply evaporated with barely a
trace left . . .

Yep. In some cases it was that the founder had died
or retired, and the
company wasn't able to adjust to the new market reality.

Founders exits aside it was the "adjusting to the new
market realities"
which knocked out the U.S. radio builders. GM is
still trying to catch
up with Honda. Darwin prevails.

Darwin got some help in those areas, though. Detroit spent the '50s and
'60s building big cars and was completely surprised by the oil
embargoes. American electronics manufacturers, run
by "PROFESSIONALS IN RADIO", didn't know how to compete with
Japanese products. The rest is history.

. . . Collins offered only two basics routes a ham
could use to get on the HF
bands with their gear at any given point in time. One xcvr and one pair
of separates. Period. Ditto Drake and for the most part Heath
too.

Drake and Heath had slightly more elaborate product lines - but not by
much. The point is still valid, though. The variety of new rigs today
is amazing.

Not even a discussion.

Here's a game: Look up all the "100 watt class" HF rigs available today
(mid 2005). Compare to what was available 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.
I bet today's variety is the largest.

Not even a discussion

Not counting all the HF mobile rigs and the equipment being
developed in various skunk works.

*And* not counting the enormous variety of clean, late-model used
equipment that is still very much usable. Take TenTec - if an Orion is
too much and you don't like the Jupiter, there's the Omni 6 in various
flavors, its predecessor the Omni V, the Pegasus, the Paragon, and the
Corsair 2, among others.

Well yeah, scarfing up used gear to get more bang
for the buck has been
a ham tradition going back into the mists
of time long before either of
us came about.

Yup. Or converting surplus - military or otherwise. Hams were doing
that in the 1920s with surplus tubes - WW1 surplus tubes....

The other night I saw an ad for the Kenwood TS-520 in a 1975
QST. $629.
That was back in the days when a new car was less than $4000 and
starting salary for a degreed engineer was maybe $12,000.

Sounds low to me because most of my classmates started for $9-
10k right
out of school in 1963. I started for $7,600 for the gummint
which was
quite low then.

Inflation in the '60s was quite low too until the end.

Or look at the SB-101 from the mid 1960s. $369 for the rig,
almost
another hundred for the power supply, CW filter and
speaker. Say $450 -
for a kit! What's that in today's dollars?

Beats me but the point is there.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation

says:

$629 in 1975 inflates to $2355.99 in 2005

and

$450 in 1965 inflates to $2681.16 in 2005

Either of those will buy quite a bit more rig than a TS-520S or SB-101.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote:
wrote:


. . . five dollar 12V ARC-5 Jeep radios . . . or were they 6V?

I've seen 12 volt ARC-5s (special units from a collection) and it was
no hard task to convert them for six volts. Easy compared to
homebrewing.

. . mmmm . . maybe mine was a 24V unit . . heh . . The only mods I
made to my 80M version to change it from a military version to a
Novice ham version were (1) rewired the filaments (2) yanked the the
tubes in the calibration circuit and circular filed 'em (3)
disconnected the roller inductor loading coil from the PA tank circuit
(4) fired it up and used a flourescent lamp tube taped to the antenna
wire to find the "hot spot" along tank coil and soldered the end of the
wire to that spot on the coil and took it to the airwaves.

Founders exits aside it was the "adjusting to the new
market realities"
which knocked out the U.S. radio builders. GM is
still trying to catch
up with Honda. Darwin prevails.

Darwin got some help in those areas, though. Detroit spent the '50s and
'60s building big cars and was completely surprised by the oil
embargoes. American electronics manufacturers, run
by "PROFESSIONALS IN RADIO", didn't know how

I can see him now, sternly lecturing Art Collins about how to design a
ham rig . . .

to compete with
Japanese products. The rest is history.

.. . . Darwin treated those of us out here in the trenches well . . he
did not treat Detroit, Collins or Drake well . .

Or look at the SB-101 from the mid 1960s. $369 for the rig,
almost
another hundred for the power supply, CW filter and
speaker. Say $450 -
for a kit! What's that in today's dollars?

Beats me but the point is there.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation

says:

$629 in 1975 inflates to $2355.99 in 2005

Slick. Love those little Java calculators.

and

$450 in 1965 inflates to $2681.16 in 2005

Either of those will buy quite a bit more rig than a TS-520S or SB-101.

I did a "reverse" run. I paid $500 for my little TS-50 HF mobile xcvr a
few years ago which is far more radio than either of those boat
anchors. I would have paid $99.25 in 1970. Which is about what one of
the early clunker CB SSB xcvrs cost in those days.

If I paid $500 for it in 1965 it would be $2,900+ today, I coulda
bought an S-Line for $2,900.

Ahhh . . the "good old days" . . but enough of wallowing in 'em . .
ONWARD!

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

. . . five dollar 12V ARC-5 Jeep radios . . . or were they 6V?

I've seen 12 volt ARC-5s (special units from a collection) and it was
no hard task to convert them for six volts. Easy compared to
homebrewing.

. . mmmm . . maybe mine was a 24V unit . . heh . .

Most of them were 24 volt units, but some 12 volt ones were made.
I've seen 'em.

The only mods I
made to my 80M version to change it from a military version to a
Novice ham version were (1) rewired the filaments (2) yanked the the
tubes in the calibration circuit and circular filed 'em (3)
disconnected the roller inductor loading coil from the PA tank circuit
(4) fired it up and used a flourescent lamp tube taped to the antenna
wire to find the "hot spot" along tank coil and soldered the end of the
wire to that spot on the coil and took it to the airwaves.

I did all sorts of mods to the transmitters but they weren't really
that good unless you got lucky. The receivers were and
are much better.

They're also good as parts sources and VFOs. The Southgate Type 6
design has a lot of ARC-5 parts in it. You should see the
VFO - took a transmitter, cut off the chassis from just behind the 1625
sockets forward, drilled out the rivets and made a squashed chassis for
the VFO. A lot less work than making one
from scratch. Which I did for the Type 7

Founders exits aside it was the "adjusting to the new
market realities"
which knocked out the U.S. radio builders. GM is
still trying to catch
up with Honda. Darwin prevails.

Darwin got some help in those areas, though. Detroit
spent the '50s and
'60s building big cars and was completely surprised by the oil
embargoes. American electronics manufacturers, run
by "PROFESSIONALS IN RADIO", didn't know how

I can see him now, sternly lecturing Art Collins about how to
design a ham rig . . .

yeah, right - couldn't even solve a simple heterodyne design
problem...

to compete with
Japanese products. The rest is history.

. . . Darwin treated those of us out here in the trenches
well . . he
did not treat Detroit, Collins or Drake well . .

Collins was still selling the S-line in 1975 (saw it in the same QST as
the TS-520).

What finally happened to Collins was that it was bought out by
Rockwell. Part of the deal was that they'd still make ham gear.
So Rockwell/Collins developed the KWM-380, an advanced rig with
an incredible price tag. Not many were sold, of course. There
was a general-coverage version called the HF-380, too.

It should be remembered that Collins' main products were avionics,
BC transmitters and such. Ham gear was a sideline - some sources
say the ham division was not intended to show a profit.

Drake, OTOH, is still around in a way, making general coverage
receivers. But not a line of ham gear.

Or look at the SB-101 from the mid 1960s. $369 for
the rig, almost
another hundred for the power supply, CW filter and
speaker. Say $450 -
for a kit! What's that in today's dollars?

Beats me but the point is there.

http://www.westegg.com/inflation

says:

$629 in 1975 inflates to $2355.99 in 2005

Slick. Love those little Java calculators.

and

$450 in 1965 inflates to $2681.16 in 2005

Either of those will buy quite a bit more rig than a TS-520S or SB-101.

I did a "reverse" run. I paid $500 for my little TS-50 HF
mobile xcvr a
few years ago which is far more radio than either of those boat
anchors. I would have paid $99.25 in 1970.

Which would have got you a Heath HW-16. As a kit, without any
accessories.

Which is about what one of
the early clunker CB SSB xcvrs cost in those days.

Never followed that stuff closely. As I recall the AM ones cost about
that much back then. They were primitive single-conversion 455 kc IF
jobs with basic MOPA transmitters.

If I paid $500 for it in 1965 it would be $2,900+ today, I
coulda bought an S-Line for $2,900.

Well, IIRC, the cost of a 75S-3, 32S-3, power supply and filters would
run you more than $1500 back then. Which works out to almost
$9000 today.

Ahhh . . the "good old days" . . but enough of wallowing
in 'em . . ONWARD!

The best part is that if someone wants to use old gear, it's out there.
Some bargains, some not, but we have more choice now than ever before.

73 de Jim, N2EY



73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv