HankC wrote:
wrote:

You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the impact holes on
the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do that if the
temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?


The entire structure does not have to melt - just enough key
components.

Nothing had to melt, just get hot enough to lose strength and yield.
With steel, this occurs well below the melting point. Hasn't anyone
ever watched a blacksmith at work?


For a physics professor he sure seems to ignore a lot of concepts such
as momentum, torque, leverage and conservation of energy...

And ignores common sense as well.

Matt

The following letter was sent today by Kevin Ryan of Underwriters
Laboratories to Frank Gayle of the National Institute of Standards and
Technology (NIST) . Underwriters Laboratories is the company that
certified the steel components used in the construction of the World
Trade Center towers. The information in this letter is of great
importance.

Dr. Gayle,

Having recently reviewed your team's report of 10/19/04, I felt the
need to contact you directly.

As I'm sure you know, the company I work for certified the steel
components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. [..]

We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time
temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed
to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree,
the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we
can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until
reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2). Why Dr. Brown would
imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those
buildings makes no sense at all. [..]

This story just does not add up. If steel from those buildings did
soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not
due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires
in those towers. That fact should be of great concern to all Americans.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...rt icleId=236

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...96183168750014

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...13046180631815


NY Fire Department Chief of Safety stated there were "bombs" and
"secondary devices", which caused the explosions in the buildings
VIDEO: http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/91...reporter.1.wmv

NYC firefighters who witnessed attacks stated that it looked like there
were bombs in the buildings
http://www.letsroll911.org/discussion_in_firehouse.mpg

NYC firefighter stated "On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think
there was bombs set in the building"
http://web.archive.org/web/200109142...4592-3,00.html

NYC firefighter stated there was a "bomb in the building ... start
clearing out"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=9%2F11+bomb

NYC firefighter stated "the south tower . . . exploded . . . At that
point a debate began to rage because the perception was that the
building looked like it had been taken out with charges . . . many
people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade"
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/816...df/9110295.pdf

Assistant Fire Commissioner stated "I thought . . . before . . . No.
2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . . I . . . saw a flash
flash flash . . . [at] the lower level of the building [not up where
the fire was]. You know like when they . . . blow up a building ... ?"
-- and a lieutenant firefighter the Commissioner spoke with
independently verified the flashes
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...ry_Stephen.txt

A firefighter said "[T]here was just an explosion. It seemed like on
television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was
going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions."
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...ki_Richard.txt

Another firefighter stated "it almost sounded like bombs going off,
like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight"
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:T...ient=firefox-a

Paramedic said "at first I thought it was -- do you ever see
professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors
and then you hear pop pop pop pop pop -- thats exactly what because
thought it was"
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/816...df/9110035.pdf

Police officer noted "People were saying, 'There's another one and
another one.' I heard reports of secondary bomb explosions . . ."
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-...-reports01.pdf

Firefighter stated "there was an explosion in the south tower, which .
.. . just blew out in flames . . . One floor under another after another
and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because
it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in
'93"
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110290.PDF

A firefighter stated "it looked like sparkling around one specific
layer of the building . . . Then the building started to come down. My
initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they
show you those implosions on TV."
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...atrick_Tom.txt

Officer in the New Jersey Fire Police Department who was previously a
sergeant in the U.S. Army, said about the south tower: "[i]t sounded
like bombs going off. That's when the explosions happened. . . . I knew
something was going to happen. . . . It started to get dark, then all
of a sudden there was this massive explosion." Then, discussing her
experiences during the collapse of the north tower, she said: "[There
was] another explosion. That sent me and the two firefighters down the
stairs. . . . I can't tell you how many times I got banged around. Each
one of those explosions picked me up and threw me. . . . There was
another explosion, and I got thrown with two firefighters out onto the
street."
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/002...lance&n=283155

A facilities manager in the north tower "was convinced that there were
bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control
panel pushing detonator buttons"
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/veliz-bombs.htm

A police report states World Trade Center "Police Desk reporting an
explosion on the lower level" 8 minutes after plane crash (page 17,
which is page 2 of the Chronological Report of the WTC Radio
Transmissions on 9/11/01)
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-...-reports01.pdf

NYC firefighter stated "It actually gave at a lower floor, not the
floor where the plane hit. . . [W]e originally had thought there was
like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession,
boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down."
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...hia_Edward.txt

Firefighter states "this, huge incredible force of wind and debris
actually came UP the stairs, knocked my helmet off, knocked me to the
ground"
http://terrorize.dk/911/witnesses/91...the.stairs.wmv

Similarly, employee of an insurance company in south tower heard an
explosion from BELOW the impact of the airplane, an "exploding sound"
shook the building, a tornado of hot air, smoke and ceiling tiles and
bits of drywall came flying UP the stairwell, and the wall split from
the bottom UP
http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0917/p1s1-usgn.html

Firefighter said "I was distracted by a large explosion from the south
tower and it seemed like fire was shooting out a couple of hundred feet
in each direction, then all of a sudden the top of the tower started
coming down in a pancake . . . It appeared somewhere below [the area
where the plane had hit]. Maybe twenty floors below the impact area of
the plane"
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/816...df/9110288.pdf

continued: http://911proof.com/11.html

That story line of it "not" being the planes that brought the towers down,
is one of the BIGGEST bull **** stories ever to be printed.

IF you "watched" the towers fall, they fell from top to bottom. Straight
down (just about). IF there were "Dynamite" used - especially at the ground
floors, they would have went out first - and THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. ALSO -
you would most likely have seen implosions or adversely - walls "shattering"
"OUT" depending on how the charges were placed. That ALSO was not the case.
IF you recall, the FIRST attempt to bring the towers down WAS done with
"Explosives" placed in the garage area. Yes, it caused damage and some
injuries/deaths but as to bringing the towers down - It didn't work.

You bull **** conspiracy theorists really need to get a grip on life. THAT
was a ****ing attack on our country - pure and simple. OR "maybe" YOU were a
part of it! Trying to spin it out of the real truth!

L.


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought it was strange that this guy was a physics professor. What
would a physics prof know about how the towers fell? That's the realm
of engineering. A physics prof would start the problem with "ok, assume
a zero gravity, zero atmophere environment..."

-Robert,




MnMikew wrote:
This is what happens to tinfoilers who spew this crap.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=476951

"Physics Professor Steven Jones has made numerous statements about the
collapse of the World Trade Center. BYU has repeatedly said that it does
not
endorse assertions made by individual faculty.

"We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and
accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."

"Lucky" Larry Silverstein

Larry Silverstein is the New York property tycoon who purchased the
entire WTC complex just 6 months prior to the 9/11 attacks. That was
the first time in its 33-year history the complex had EVER changed
ownership.

Mr. Silverstein's first order of business as the new owner was to
change the company responsible for the security of the complex. The new
security company he hired was Securacom (now Stratasec). George W.
Bush's brother, Marvin Bush, was on its board of directors, and
Marvin's cousin, Wirt Walker III, was its CEO. According to public
records, not only did Securacom provide electronic security for the
World Trade Center, it also covered Dulles International Airport and
United Airlines - two key players in the 9/11 attacks.

The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American
Corp., also linked for many years to the Bush family. KuwAm has been
linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its
principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud
al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.

Now, consider: The members of a small cabal owned the WTC complex,
controlled its electronic security, and also controlled the security
not only for one of the airlines whose aircraft were hijacked on 9/11,
but the airport from which they originated.

Another little "coincidence" -- Mr. Silversten, who made a
down-payment of $124 million on this $3.2 billion complex, promptly
insured it for $7 Billion. Not only that, he covered the complex
against "terrorist attacks".

Following the attacks, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the
maximum amount of the policy ($7B), based on the two -- in
Silverstein's view -- separate attacks. The insurance company, Swiss
Re, paid Mr. Silverstein $4.6 Billion - a princely return on a
relatively paltry investment of $124 million.

There's more. You see, the World Trade Towers were not the real
estate plum we are led to believe. From an economic standpoint, the
trade center -- subsidized since its inception by the NY Port Authority
-- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected
in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. How could Silverstein
Group have been ignorant of this?

The towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements,
most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials
declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built.
It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos
bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an
aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to
demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due
the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason
the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too
costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port
Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.

The projected cost to disassemble the towers: $15 Billion. Just the
scaffolding for the operation was estimated at $2.4 Billion!

In other words, the Twin Towers were condemned structures. How
convenient that an unexpected "terrorist" attack demolished the
buildings completely.

WTC Building 7 was a part of the WTC complex, and covered under the
same insurance policy. This 47-storey steel-framed structure, which was
NOT struck by an aircraft, mysteriously collapsed 8 hours later that
same day into its own footprint at freefall speed - exactly in the
manner of the Twin Towers.

How could this have happened? Mr. Silverstein gave the world the answer
when he slipped up during a PBS television interview a year later, on
9/11/2002:

"I remember getting a call from the...er...fire department commander,
telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain
the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the
smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull
and we watched the building collapse."

As anyone who knows anything about construction can tell you,
"Pull" is common industry jargon for a controlled demolition.

One thing is for sure, the decision to 'pull' WTC 7 would have
delighted many people. Especially because it has been reported that
thousands of sensitive files relating to some of the biggest financial
scams in history - including Enron and WorldCom -- were stored in the
offices of some of the building's tenants:

* US Secret Service
* NSA
* CIA
* IRS
* BATF
* SEC
* NAIC Securities
* Salomon Smith Barney
* American Express Bank International
* Standard Chartered Bank
* Provident Financial Management
* ITT Hartford Insurance Group
* Federal Home Loan Bank

The Securities and Exchange Commission has not quantified the number of
active cases in which substantial files were destroyed by the collapse
of WTC 7. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published
reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's
major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot
shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom.
...."Ongoing investigations at the New York SEC will be dramatically
affected because so much of their work is paper-intensive," said Max
Berger of New York's Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. "This is a
disaster for these cases."

Citigroup says some information that the committee is seeking [about
WorldCom] was destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attack on the World
Trade Center. Salomon had offices in 7 World Trade Center. The bank
says that back-up tapes of corporate emails from September 1998 through
December 2000 were stored at the building and destroyed in the attack.

Inside WTC 7 was the US Secret Service's largest field office with more
than 200 employees. "All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade,
in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret
Service Special Agent David Curran.

What a neat, complete, and fortuitous turn of events was 9/11.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that one of Lucky Larry's closest
friends - a person with whom it's said he speaks almost daily by
phone - is none other than former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu.

More on that cozy little relationship later...

http://www.ziopedia.org/content/view/1494/0/

BULL ****............

wrote in message
ups.com...
"Lucky" Larry Silverstein

In article ,
"L." wrote:

That story line of it "not" being the planes that brought the towers down,
is one of the BIGGEST bull **** stories ever to be printed.

IF you "watched" the towers fall, they fell from top to bottom. Straight
down (just about). IF there were "Dynamite" used - especially at the ground
floors, they would have went out first - and THAT WAS NOT THE CASE. ALSO -
you would most likely have seen implosions or adversely - walls "shattering"
"OUT" depending on how the charges were placed. That ALSO was not the case.
IF you recall, the FIRST attempt to bring the towers down WAS done with
"Explosives" placed in the garage area. Yes, it caused damage and some
injuries/deaths but as to bringing the towers down - It didn't work.

You bull **** conspiracy theorists really need to get a grip on life. THAT
was a ****ing attack on our country - pure and simple. OR "maybe" YOU were a
part of it! Trying to spin it out of the real truth!


They started out with a story that it was "thermate" that brought them
down. When they found out that there is no such thing as "thermate,"
they switched the story to thermite. Now it is dynamite! If braind were
dynamite, the collective "9/11 'Truth' Movement" wouldn't ahve enough to
blow their noses!


"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought it was strange that this guy was a physics professor. What
would a physics prof know about how the towers fell? That's the realm
of engineering. A physics prof would start the problem with "ok, assume
a zero gravity, zero atmophere environment..."

-Robert,




MnMikew wrote:
This is what happens to tinfoilers who spew this crap.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=476951

"Physics Professor Steven Jones has made numerous statements about the
collapse of the World Trade Center. BYU has repeatedly said that it does
not
endorse assertions made by individual faculty.

"We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and
accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

They started out with a story that it was "thermate" that brought them
down. When they found out that there is no such thing as "thermate,"
they switched the story to thermite. Now it is dynamite! If braind
were dynamite, the collective "9/11 'Truth' Movement" wouldn't ahve
enough to blow their noses!


I recently was in an exchange with someone who didn't keep track of his
responses.

One of his last responses to me was to say that the "explosions" could have
been every ten floors and that "They" were sloppy.
One of his last posts to another person had him saying "They" had to wire
every floor with great precision.
I quoted his response to me in that thread and he went away.

The question that popped into my mind during that exchange was "Why bother
with airplanes?"

If they could wire two they could wire two hundred. Blow up a couple, tell
the world of the other 198 then blow one a week or one every time a search
crew went in.

The recent fear of water and toothpaste (but you can carry on KY-jelly) on
planes led me to another way to bring excitement onto an airplane.

Oh cripes, if you believe that then my schlong is two feet long! There
is always some crack pot A-hole with some conspiracy song about
something. Faaaaak!
Bob


wrote:
The 9/11 terrorist attack on America which left almost 3,000 people
dead was an "inside job", according to a group of leading academics.

Around 75 top professors and leading scientists believe the attacks
were puppeteered by war mongers in the White House to justify the
invasion and the occupation of oil-rich Arab countries.

The claims have caused outrage and anger in the US which marks the
fifth anniversary of the terrorist attacks on Monday.

But leading scientists say the facts of their investigations cannot be
ignored and say they have evidence that points to one of the biggest
conspiracies ever perpetrated. Professor Steven Jones, who lectures in
physics at the Brigham Young University in Utah, says the official
version of events is the biggest and most evil cover up in history.

He has joined the 9/11 Scholars for Truth whose membership includes up
to 75 leading scientists and experts from universities across the US.

Prof Jones said: "We don't believe that 19 hijackers and a few others
in a cave in Afghanistan pulled this off acting alone.

"We challenge this official conspiracy theory and, by God, we're going
to get to the bottom of this."

They believe a group of US neo-conservatives called the Project for a
New American Century, set on US world dominance, orchestrated the 9/11
attacks as an excuse to hit Iraq, Afghanistan and later Iran.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

The Demolition of the World Trade Centre Complex:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13046180631815

There was no one at the impact holes, they were on ledges.

Quit lying before we have to sew your mouth shut.



wrote in message
ups.com...
| You've seen the photos of the survivors standing in the
impact holes on
| the side of the tower begging for help. How could they do
that if the
| temperatures were hot enough to 'melt steel'?
|