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#11
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... I'll make it really simple for you. FM is "hi-fi", while AM is noisy "no-fi". Don't you want to be cool strutting down the street with your iPhone watching HDTV with 7.1 sound? It wouldn't do to have it sound like the typical AM broadcast station. For decent quality, you gotta have FM. FM is not inherently any more 'hi-fi' than AM. Fidelity is a product of bandwidth, not modulation type. AM is not even so susceptible to noise as the frequency goes up, since the energy of the noise pulses goes down logarithmically as frequency goes up. AM is used for aeronautical communications very successfully for several reasons, one of which is the LACK of 'capture effect'. There are still some frequencies where AM will be more susceptible to interference than FM, but FM would still suffer, for instance the segment between 1330-1400 MHz which is the natural frequency of Hydrogen (lots of that around). |
#12
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
On Jul 15, 4:30 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Radium hath wroth: The problem with AM audio is that the ultimate signal to noise ratio isn't very good. AM is noisy at any signal strength. The noise never really goes away. On the other foot, FM is noisy with very weak signals, but becomes very quiet once the limiter starts to work. That's why FM is preferred for music and why analog AM broadcasting sounds marginal at any signal level. AFAIK, the main issue with AM is that it is much more vulnerable to magnetic disruptions than FM. That is why when you are listening to the AM radio at home and someone turns on the microwave-oven, you here those odd sounds on the receiver. Also, if there is a solar prominence you can hear the resulting magnetic disruptions on an AM radio receiver. They sound scary and enjoyable at the same time. Nope. For decent quality sound you need audio that is uncompressed PCM [similar to CDs and WAVE files] with a sample rate of at least 44.1 KHz and a bit-resolution of at least 16-bit. Or the analog equivalent. I thought you didn't like digital? You only gave me a choice of AM or FM. Now, you want digital. It depends, if I can find the analog-equivalent of 44.1 KHz-sample- rate, 16-bit-resolution digital audio, that just as good. If I a limited to only AM or FM for analog audio, I choose AM because I like the sounds generated by solar prominences and other RF magnetic disruptions. Ironically, for video, I prefer FM. Yup, video signals on FM carriers instead of AM carrier. The Y-luminance signal should be broadcasted on an FM carrier. That's the analog video I like. With compression and proper coding, you can pickup quite a bit of efficiency, at the expense of sounding like you're gargling ball bearings. Disgusting! I hate most forms of digital audio compression. For me, either keep it uncompressed or use WMA compression. All non-WMA digital audio compressions below 320 kbps sound like stinky human fart. Or an angry infant foaming at the mouth. Not too bad a tradeoff for voice. Really awful for music. Awful for both. The only digital audio compression I like is WMA. The sounds resulting from WMA compression sort of make me think of those RF electronic telecommunication devices used in The Bourne Identity. That movie features some really awesome devices that make those interesting sounds - for example, when the main character is getting his hand screened. I also associated these sounds with the electronic telecommunication devices used by the Soviet Union. Soviet Union has got some really psychedelic sounds in their electronics. You know, those fancy dial-up modems tones? Fortunately, none of the broadcasters or cellular carriers use raw CD data, mostly because it's not compressed. All digital audio compression formats other than WMA, stink badly!! Here are my rules for digital audio: A. Whether compressed or not, the audio must be monaural and with a sample-rate of at least 44.1 kHz. B. The only compression allowed is WMA. No other compression format is permitted. C. In its uncompressed form, the audio must have a bit-resolution of at least 16-bit D. If compression is used, then the sample-rate of the compressed and the uncompressed version of the audio must be the same. E. If compression is used, the only thing that should be decreased is the bit-resolution. The sample-rate must remain unchanged Let's say a song that was originally recorded in stereo is given to me. The song must to be converted to mono* via the following steps: 1. Record audio from CD [or other stereo audio source] into Wavelab, Adobe Audition [or other audio software] into a file. For simplicity let's call this file "Track1.wav" 2. Make a copy of Track1.wav and save the copy as "Track1B.wav" 3. Open Track1.wav and reduce the gain of its audio by 77.5% 4. Convert Track1.wav to monaural audio 5. Save Track.1 6. Open Track1B.wav and reduce its audio gain by 50% 7. Invert the phase of the left channel of Track1B.wav 8. Convert Track1B.wav to mono 9. Save Track1B.wav 10. Create a new stereo wave file whose bit-resolution is 16-bit and sample rate is 44.1 kHz. For simplicity let's call this file "untitled.wav" 11. Copy and paste the audio of Track1.wav into the left channel of untitled.wav 12. Copy and paste the audio of Track1B.wave into the right channel of untitled.wav 13. Convert untitled.wav to mono 14. Save untitled.wav *Songs that were originally-recorded in stereo need to be converted to mono via the above 14 steps because different sounds are recorded differently in the L and R channels. The audio that is originally panned to the center is significantly louder than the audio whose phase is different in the left & right channels. This is why I reduce the loudness of non-inverted stereo audio file by 77.5% [before converting it to mono]. In the stereo file whose left channel has its phase inverted, I decrease the loudness only by 50% and then convert it to mono. Usually -- the lead vocals, bass, and percussion are recorded identically in both the left and right channels. The piano, chorus, guitar, and synth pads are usually recorded differently in the left and right channel. |
#13
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
"Brenda Ann" hath wroth:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message .. . I'll make it really simple for you. FM is "hi-fi", while AM is noisy "no-fi". Don't you want to be cool strutting down the street with your iPhone watching HDTV with 7.1 sound? It wouldn't do to have it sound like the typical AM broadcast station. For decent quality, you gotta have FM. FM is not inherently any more 'hi-fi' than AM. FM was invented by Edwin Armstrong specifically to eliminate the noise problems of AM broadcasting. What I think you might be referring to is the huge ****ing match between Armstrong and John Carson over whether FM was any better than FM in the 1930's. The consensus is that very narrow band FM isn't that much better than AM (of equal occupied bandwidth), but wide band FM (as used in broadcast FM and TV) is far better than AM for just about everything. http://fecha.org/armstrong.htm Fidelity is a product of bandwidth, not modulation type. Correct. Actually, it's also a function of modulation linearity (distortion and intermod) and encoding method (dynamic range), but I don't wanna slither down that diversion. Pretend I didn't mention it. AM is not even so susceptible to noise as the frequency goes up, since the energy of the noise pulses goes down logarithmically as frequency goes up. If you're thinking of impulse noise, you're mostly correct. However, there are plenty of other sources of AM noise available. For example, the typical VHF aircraft radio requires substantial filtering of the magneto to avoid hash. Same with any onboard motor. If you've ever tried to install a TV (VSB is a form of AM) in a vehicle, you'll also find that ignition and motor noise can be a problem. Also, your statement isn't quite right. I think what you meant to say is that as the frequency increases, the energy produced by an impulse source, in a given bandwidth, goes down. Even that's not accurate as I have a fluorescent lamp calibrated noise source that's quite noisy well into the GHz range. AM is used for aeronautical communications very successfully for several reasons, one of which is the LACK of 'capture effect'. The FAA, FCC, and various manufactories have tried to move aircraft radios away from AM and towards FM several times in the past 30 year or so. They failed mostly due to international WRC reluctance to swap out expensive radios. It took literally forever to get GPS receivers TSO approved and about 15 years for nav/com radios to go from 50KHz to 25KHz channel spacing, and that was just the FAA. Where else can you find an industry, where progress is somewhat retarded by a regulatory agency of the federal government? I listen to a mix of VHF aircraft AM channels and FM ham and public safety channels on my scanner almost constantly. It's easy to recognize the AM stations by their uniformly crappy audio. Most domestic ground to ground airport traffic is now all FM, as is military ground to ground and ground to air. The reason is that it's difficult to find a decent AM aircraft band walkie talkie. So, they use commercial FM radios. The only AM walkie talkies are used by experimental aviation and ultralights, some of which do not have much of an electrical system that can handle the grossly inefficient AM transmitters. Also, nobody really cares about the "capture effect" as the tower usually has multiple receiver sites and can generally deal with simultaneous transmit collisions. However, they do care about the heterodynes produced by simultaneous transmissions, which obliterate both transmissions. With FM, they could use commercial receiver voting systems and largely eliminate the problem. There are still some frequencies where AM will be more susceptible to interference than FM, but FM would still suffer, for instance the segment between 1330-1400 MHz which is the natural frequency of Hydrogen (lots of that around). If my AM or FM receiver is sensitive enough to hear something in the "water hole", it would be attached to a very big dish antenna. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#14
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
Radium hath wroth:
AFAIK, the main issue with AM is that it is much more vulnerable to magnetic disruptions than FM. Wrong. Take a magnet, any magnet. Wave it around your AM or FM radio. Hear anything different? You won't. Therefore, forget about magnetic disturbances. The main issue with AM is susceptibility to pulsed noise, as found in motors, fans, auto engines, and computahs. FM doesn't have as bad a problem because the limiter in the receiver clips everything to the same level, thus reducing the effect. That is why when you are listening to the AM radio at home and someone turns on the microwave-oven, you here those odd sounds on the receiver. No. Microwave ovens operate at 2400Mhz. AM broadcast operates at 1MHz. No way there's going to be any interference there. However, the microwave oven may have a fan or CPU that runs the display, that belches garbage at 1MHz. I just tried mine and there's a tiny bit of buzz coming from the display section when I shove an AM radio right up to the display. If that's what you're hearing, I would test it with a different microwave oven. If only yours has the problem, I suggest you consider a replacement. Also, if there is a solar prominence you can hear the resulting magnetic disruptions on an AM radio receiver. They sound scary and enjoyable at the same time. You can also hear lightning storms. In the US, most of those are in the south east of the country. Nothing like interference from 3000 miles away. Lightning detectors operate in the 25-50KHz region. Incidentally, there are about 8 million lightning hits per day, which is why the noise sounds almost continuous. (chomp...) Sorry, my time is up. Please insert $0.25 for the next 3 minutes. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#15
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Radium hath wroth: AFAIK, the main issue with AM is that it is much more vulnerable to magnetic disruptions than FM. Wrong. Take a magnet, any magnet. Wave it around your AM or FM radio. Hear anything different? You won't. Therefore, forget about magnetic disturbances. The main issue with AM is susceptibility to pulsed noise, as found in motors, fans, auto engines, and computahs. FM doesn't have as bad a problem because the limiter in the receiver clips everything to the same level, thus reducing the effect. That is why when you are listening to the AM radio at home and someone turns on the microwave-oven, you here those odd sounds on the receiver. No. Microwave ovens operate at 2400Mhz. AM broadcast operates at 1MHz. No way there's going to be any interference there. However, the microwave oven may have a fan or CPU that runs the display, that belches garbage at 1MHz. I just tried mine and there's a tiny bit of buzz coming from the display section when I shove an AM radio right up to the display. If that's what you're hearing, I would test it with a different microwave oven. If only yours has the problem, I suggest you consider a replacement. Also, if there is a solar prominence you can hear the resulting magnetic disruptions on an AM radio receiver. They sound scary and enjoyable at the same time. You can also hear lightning storms. In the US, most of those are in the south east of the country. Nothing like interference from 3000 miles away. Lightning detectors operate in the 25-50KHz region. Incidentally, there are about 8 million lightning hits per day, which is why the noise sounds almost continuous. (chomp...) Sorry, my time is up. Please insert $0.25 for the next 3 minutes. Don't tell him about whistlers. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#16
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
msg hath wroth:
Jeff Liebermann wrote: snip I have a fluorescent lamp calibrated noise source that's quite noisy well into the GHz range. Sounds interesting. Would you please post some details or pointers to references about constructing and calibrating such an instrument? Groan. I built it myself from an article in some long lost magazine perhaps 30 years ago. It's just a 5watt fluorescent tube, with a few turns of wire wrapped around it going to a broadband CATV amplifier. One end of the wire coil is terminated at 50 ohms. The other end goes to the broadband amp. The lamp is powered by a heavily filtered isolation xformer. Calibration consisted of taking a scope photo of the output on a spectrum analyzer. Just about any gas discharge tube will work. Neon, fluorescent, blue or green gas discharge display, the new compact fluorescent tubes, plasma tube TV, etc. Most older microwave noise sources use argon filled gas discharge tubes, but fluorescent will sorta work. The HP 346A (3-18GHz) and 349A (0.4 to 4GHz) noise sources are examples of such gas discharge tube test noise sources. The manual for the 342A NF test system, which includes the 349A noise source is at: ftp://bama.sbc.edu/downloads/hp/342a/342a_349a_service_6.pdf See section 5. Some minor notes around Fig 9.24 on Page 207 at: http://books.google.com/books?id=sNLQmi3ymTYC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206 I could post some photos, but I really don't want to tear it apart to take pictures of the guts. These daze, microwave noise sources use avalanche diodes although just about any diode with a sharp knee will work. Diodes are more stable, less fragile, and easier to produce than gas discharge tubes. http://www.ham-radio.com/sbms/sd/nfsource.htm http://www.atmmicrowave.com/coax-noise.html -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#17
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:30:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: Not really. If you really want weak signal reception, I suggest you look into SSB (scientific set back) modulation. what??!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ John |
#18
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
In rec.radio.amateur.antenna John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:30:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Not really. If you really want weak signal reception, I suggest you look into SSB (scientific set back) modulation. what??!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Too subtle for you? It's called humor. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#19
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM electromagnetic waves: 20 KHz modulation frequency on an astronomically-low carrier frequency]
John Larkin hath wroth:
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:30:13 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Not really. If you really want weak signal reception, I suggest you look into SSB (scientific set back) modulation. what??!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sigh. Nobody here seems to have a sense of humor. SSB = Single Side Band Happy now? You sure take the fun out of acronym mutilation. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#20
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How I would like to change the cell phone industry [was AM
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
If you've ever been hit by lightning, I don't think you'll find it very boring. With 8 million hits per day, chances are good that you'll get hit. Ummm... could you step outside for a moment? Reminds me of an afternoon when I was 600 ft up a 1,000 ft TV tower climbing on the inside. The tower took a hit and the lightning bolt followed a aircraft cable hoist line down the inside of the tower. Right between my legs. |
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