"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...


Problem was, people didn't like stereo enough to buy another radio. And
it's not as if the radios were real expensive. They wouldn't buy four AM
stereo standards. They wouldn't buy even one.

By the time in the early 80's when a standard, CQuam, arrose, AM was no
longer a music medium and had less than 40% of all listening.

Actually, people didn't care much about FM stereo, either. FM stereo
didn't
reach mass market appeal until it was almost a give-away with the radio.

Untrue. FM Stereo was introduced in about 1961, and the decade before had
seen total FM stations go from over 1000 in 1950 to around 500 in 1960.

What changed FM was not the technology, but the FCC's 1967 ban on FM
simulcasts with a parent AM station. It was the diversity of formats that
came out of this that sold FM.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...


Problem was, people didn't like stereo enough to buy another radio. And
it's not as if the radios were real expensive. They wouldn't buy four AM
stereo standards. They wouldn't buy even one.

By the time in the early 80's when a standard, CQuam, arrose, AM was no
longer a music medium and had less than 40% of all listening.

There are still stations playing music on AM.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...


Problem was, people didn't like stereo enough to buy another radio.
And
it's not as if the radios were real expensive. They wouldn't buy four
AM
stereo standards. They wouldn't buy even one.

By the time in the early 80's when a standard, CQuam, arrose, AM was no
longer a music medium and had less than 40% of all listening.

There are still stations playing music on AM.

Keyword: still. Most AMs are talk based, and all the decently rated ones
are. A few exceptions, on analysis, make the rule; those with music in rated
markets are either ethnic (like the Farsi, Korean, Chinese and Vietnamese
language stations in the LA metro.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...


Problem was, people didn't like stereo enough to buy another
radio. And it's not as if the radios were real expensive. They
wouldn't buy four AM stereo standards. They wouldn't buy even
one.

By the time in the early 80's when a standard, CQuam, arrose, AM
was no longer a music medium and had less than 40% of all
listening.

There are still stations playing music on AM.

Keyword: still. Most AMs are talk based, and all the decently rated
ones are. A few exceptions, on analysis, make the rule; those with
music in rated markets are either ethnic (like the Farsi, Korean,
Chinese and Vietnamese language stations in the LA metro.

And like any other topic we disagree on I just happen to have one of
those exceptions about 5 miles away from myself, in english, playing
rock and roll music. Since this is the case for myself I could
extrapolate this to the majority of towns in this country. That would
add up to many more music station then you allow for.

I'll bet if I took the trouble to spin the dial looking for more I
could get maybe a handful buy you would come back and say I could not
hear them.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Keyword: still. Most AMs are talk based, and all the decently rated
ones are. A few exceptions, on analysis, make the rule; those with
music in rated markets are either ethnic (like the Farsi, Korean,
Chinese and Vietnamese language stations in the LA metro.

And like any other topic we disagree on I just happen to have one of
those exceptions about 5 miles away from myself, in english, playing
rock and roll music. Since this is the case for myself I could
extrapolate this to the majority of towns in this country. That would
add up to many more music station then you allow for.

Try re-reading the paragraph above your ill-reasoned one. I said "decently
rated" quite clearly. KVEN is rated 39th in the market in 25-54 year old
listeners (what in the industry are called the "sales demos") and is 27th in
listeners of all ages (12+ being the term used for that.). It's billings
have fallen by more than half since the year 2000, and currently are about
10% of the level attained by the market's leading billers, KCAQ, KHAY and
KXLM.

In fact, most places in the US don't have much music on AM unless, as I
said, it is in Farsi or Russian or Polish, to name three... or the station
is one of several forms of Gospel that have mostly 55 and over listeners.

I'll bet if I took the trouble to spin the dial looking for more I
could get maybe a handful buy you would come back and say I could not
hear them.

No, I would say, as I always have, that what you may pick up on your $5000
radio does not have the signal strength, clarity and consistency the average
listener seeks. There are probably hundreds or relatively easy out of market
AM signals you can get, between daytime and night. Listeners only pick the
ones that have monster signals, as proven by decades of research.

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

Keyword: still. Most AMs are talk based, and all the decently rated
ones are. A few exceptions, on analysis, make the rule; those with
music in rated markets are either ethnic (like the Farsi, Korean,
Chinese and Vietnamese language stations in the LA metro.

And like any other topic we disagree on I just happen to have one of
those exceptions about 5 miles away from myself, in english, playing
rock and roll music. Since this is the case for myself I could
extrapolate this to the majority of towns in this country. That would
add up to many more music station then you allow for.

Try re-reading the paragraph above your ill-reasoned one. I said "decently
rated" quite clearly. KVEN is rated 39th in the market in 25-54 year old
listeners (what in the industry are called the "sales demos") and is 27th in
listeners of all ages (12+ being the term used for that.). It's billings
have fallen by more than half since the year 2000, and currently are about
10% of the level attained by the market's leading billers, KCAQ, KHAY and
KXLM.

I don't need to reread it master of BS. You have this false notion that
there are only like 2 stations that have any signal in a market, which
of course is BS.

I get around 13 stations over S9 where I live 60 miles north of LA and
of course there are another dozen that put in a decent relatively noise
fee signal on a portable most places.

In fact, most places in the US don't have much music on AM unless, as I
said, it is in Farsi or Russian or Polish, to name three... or the station
is one of several forms of Gospel that have mostly 55 and over listeners.

I don't believe it.

I'll bet if I took the trouble to spin the dial looking for more I
could get maybe a handful buy you would come back and say I could not
hear them.

No, I would say, as I always have, that what you may pick up on your $5000
radio does not have the signal strength, clarity and consistency the average
listener seeks. There are probably hundreds or relatively easy out of market
AM signals you can get, between daytime and night. Listeners only pick the
ones that have monster signals, as proven by decades of research.

This is part of your BS story. I just used the table radios for S meter
readings and the portable for listening. Over a dozen come in noise free
on the portable. Actually almost 2 dozen come in noise free.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:


Try re-reading the paragraph above your ill-reasoned one. I said
"decently
rated" quite clearly. KVEN is rated 39th in the market in 25-54 year old
listeners (what in the industry are called the "sales demos") and is 27th
in
listeners of all ages (12+ being the term used for that.). It's billings
have fallen by more than half since the year 2000, and currently are
about
10% of the level attained by the market's leading billers, KCAQ, KHAY and
KXLM.

I don't need to reread it master of BS. You have this false notion that
there are only like 2 stations that have any signal in a market, which
of course is BS.

No, I have the proof, as does any other subscriber to Arbitron, that people
will not listen to weak signals that are subject to noise, interference or
difficult to tune in.

Anyway, you are obfuscating. I clearly said that AM stations with any
appreciable ratings are not playing music. You went off on an unrelated and
irrelevant tangent.

I get around 13 stations over S9 where I live 60 miles north of LA and
of course there are another dozen that put in a decent relatively noise
fee signal on a portable most places.

But most of the ones that have a good signal TO YOU do not get listening by
anyone else that is measurable.

In fact, most places in the US don't have much music on AM unless, as I
said, it is in Farsi or Russian or Polish, to name three... or the
station
is one of several forms of Gospel that have mostly 55 and over listeners.

I don't believe it.

Name me ONE non-ethnic AM that plays only music and has salable ratings
(meaning under age 55 listening).


No, I would say, as I always have, that what you may pick up on your
$5000
radio does not have the signal strength, clarity and consistency the
average
listener seeks. There are probably hundreds or relatively easy out of
market
AM signals you can get, between daytime and night. Listeners only pick
the
ones that have monster signals, as proven by decades of research.

This is part of your BS story. I just used the table radios for S meter
readings and the portable for listening. Over a dozen come in noise free
on the portable. Actually almost 2 dozen come in noise free.

But nobody else listens to them, even in your specific ZIP code area, as I
explained to you before.

Again, all of this is to divert attention from the fact that you cited a
music AM in your metro area and I gave you the facts that it is rated poorly
(39th in 25-54 in the Ventura / Ornard MSA) and has plummeting revenue and
almost no billing now. That's typical for music AMs unless they are ones
like KIRN that are the only service to an unserved community... in this
case, Persians.

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
And like any other topic we disagree on I just happen to have one of
those exceptions about 5 miles away from myself, in english, playing
rock and roll music. Since this is the case for myself I could
extrapolate this to the majority of towns in this country. That would
add up to many more music station then you allow for.



Portland, OR

1480 KBMS (Vancouver, WA) Urban Contemporary
1550 KKAD (Vancouver, WA) Nostalgia

Salem, OR

1490 KBZY Oldies


Eugene, OR

840 KKNX Oldies

Seaside, OR

840 KSWB Oldies

Waldport, OR

820 KORC Nostalgia

Longview, WA

1270 KBAM Country
1400 KEDO Oldies
1490 KLOG Classic Hits

Centralia, WA

1420 KITI Oldies

Seattle, WA

660 KAPS Country
880 KIXI Nostalgia
1420 KRIZ (Renton, WA) Rhythmic Oldies
1620 KYIZ (Renton, WA) Urban Contemporary

Yakima, WA

1460 KUTI Country

Grand Coulee, WA

1490 KEYG Country

Spokane, WA

630 KTRW Nostalgia
1050 KEYF Nostalgia

Coeur D Alene, ID

1080 KVNI Oldies


Wallace, ID

620 KWAL Country

Orofino, ID

1300 KLER Country

Lewiston, ID

1350 KRLC Country

Boise, ID

670 KBOI Jazz
1140 KGEM Nostalgia
1490 KCID (Caldwell, ID) Oldies

Pocatello, ID

790 KBRV (Soda Springs, ID) Country
1290 KOUU Country

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
And like any other topic we disagree on I just happen to have one of
those exceptions about 5 miles away from myself, in english, playing
rock and roll music. Since this is the case for myself I could
extrapolate this to the majority of towns in this country. That would
add up to many more music station then you allow for.


Again, another poster misses the point: listenership. Those stations in
rated markets have zero or ground clutter ratings, which means that,
whatever they are doing, nearly nobody listens to it. My point is that AM is
not a music medium, and has not been since the 80's, which is why the
muddled and befuddled effort to do AM stereo back then also failed.


Portland, OR

1480 KBMS (Vancouver, WA) Urban Contemporary
1550 KKAD (Vancouver, WA) Nostalgia

Salem, OR

1490 KBZY Oldies


Eugene, OR

840 KKNX Oldies

Seaside, OR

840 KSWB Oldies

Waldport, OR

820 KORC Nostalgia

Longview, WA

1270 KBAM Country
1400 KEDO Oldies
1490 KLOG Classic Hits

Centralia, WA

1420 KITI Oldies

Seattle, WA

660 KAPS Country
880 KIXI Nostalgia
1420 KRIZ (Renton, WA) Rhythmic Oldies
1620 KYIZ (Renton, WA) Urban Contemporary

Yakima, WA

1460 KUTI Country

Grand Coulee, WA

1490 KEYG Country

Spokane, WA

630 KTRW Nostalgia
1050 KEYF Nostalgia

Coeur D Alene, ID

1080 KVNI Oldies


Wallace, ID

620 KWAL Country

Orofino, ID

1300 KLER Country

Lewiston, ID

1350 KRLC Country

Boise, ID

670 KBOI Jazz
1140 KGEM Nostalgia
1490 KCID (Caldwell, ID) Oldies

Pocatello, ID

790 KBRV (Soda Springs, ID) Country
1290 KOUU Country

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...


Problem was, people didn't like stereo enough to buy another radio. And
it's not as if the radios were real expensive. They wouldn't buy four
AM
stereo standards. They wouldn't buy even one.

By the time in the early 80's when a standard, CQuam, arrose, AM was no
longer a music medium and had less than 40% of all listening.

But there were still people listening to music on AM, probably more than are
listening to HD radio right now. I can understand the enthusiasm people had
for AM stereo back then.

AM stereo might have kept radio as we then knew it alive.



Actually, people didn't care much about FM stereo, either. FM stereo
didn't
reach mass market appeal until it was almost a give-away with the radio.

Untrue. FM Stereo was introduced in about 1961, and the decade before had
seen total FM stations go from over 1000 in 1950 to around 500 in 1960.

I didn't mean FM radio stations. I meant FM recievers. When FM began it's
turnaround around 1970 or so, most of the FM receivers were mono.

The dominance of FM stereo receivers didn't happen until the price
difference was small.


What changed FM was not the technology, but the FCC's 1967 ban on FM
simulcasts with a parent AM station. It was the diversity of formats that
came out of this that sold FM.



On this we agree. The FM turnaround was driven by content.

Frank Dresser