(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

In article ,
"SaPeIsMa" wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

In article ,
BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote:
In
,
says...

In ,
Alan wrote:

In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:



That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of
form
[over] substance


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Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the
original
Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300,
IIRC).
Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base
even
after
PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an
exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative,
then
that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer,
in
this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If
nobody
were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the
market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a
whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a
fashion
thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All
the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on
windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative
types
are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a
"fashion
thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college
students
in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own
free
will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either.

What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5%
four
years ago?

Intel won.




Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is
a tad
bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is
just
as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper
education
and/or a virus/malware scanner ...

If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X
is
surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of
Linux.

It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use.

Keep trying. The world runs on Windows.

Keep trying - increasingly it does not. Check Apple's rapidly growing
market share. More importantly, I can tell you more and more college
students in technical fields like science and engineering are using Macs
these days. Programming in Matlab, Maple, Mathematica is the norm now,
and they all run perfectly on OS X. Plus they get all the benefits of OS
X in other applications, too. When these kids hit the job market, the
trend will simply continue.

I can tell you that at my large international corporation we are still
not embracing Apple on the desktop. We are running Windows and Linux and
we will soon be running dumb tubes, throw back to the 70's, on the
desktop. There is no reason to put a high dollar, high end computer on
everyone's desktop to run e-mail, surfing, and spreadsheets and
documents.

We are embracing the iPad primarily because we can use it to get to VMs
and because we can run web enabled applications. You can effectively
take your desktop anywhere. These are the only two requirements of a
"pad" that we need. As soon as something cheaper than the iPad is
available we will officially support that and may even provide it to our
users.

The desktop only needs to be a tube, keyboard, and mouse with a
connection to our network.

Amazon is supposedly coming out with a $200 dollar upgrade to the Nook that
will go directly against the IPad.
It will be running Android and will be open architecture.
Time to start looking at a short on Apple


Yes, they said that about the Zune and the iPod, not to mention HP's
pathetic effort at a tablet.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/13/2011 5:09 PM, David Barts wrote:
On Oct 13, 4:48 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 4:19 PM, David Barts wrote:

On Oct 8, 5:42 pm, wrote:

That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form of
substance.

Actually, they sell reliability and ease-of-use. Macs tend to "just
work" in most cases, including many cases where Linux or Windoze
require endless geekery to get something to work.

Reliability and ease-of-use come at a price. As someone who's an ex
systems support person and completely sick of systems geekery, that
price is worth it to me. If the price isn't worth it to you, don't buy
Apple products. Simple.

--
David Barts
Seattle, WA.

I rarely keep a machine beyond two years, then it gets the "pass me
down" to someone ... or the electronics recyclers where they pay me the
grand price of ~0.36 a pound ... video cards, memory and other
components going into the junk drawer for passing out to those in need
... I can't remember a computer ever failing me in that time, nor any
component other than a power supply, now and then, which was abused and
drew too much power through.

Reliability encompasses more than just service lifetime of the
hardware.

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

I was merely responding to "dave"'s inane comment that the only reason
anyone would purchase an Apple product is for fashion or lifestyle
reasons.

--
David Barts
Seattle, WA

I find the vast majority think it is some kind of status symbol or have
some cult devotion to them ... I just don't understand it ...

And, why you are worried about the lifetime of a computer which will be
outdated in a year, two at max is rather perplexing ... unless you only
use email, a browser and a NG reader ... and then you can get by with a
40 buck PC from the salvation army running windows 98 on ancient
architecture ... better yet, check out the dumpsters behind any
business, that is where I seen a lot of old computers end up ... my
nieces kids pulled a few out of dumpsters to do a science fair project
out of just last year or the year before ...

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?


Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/13/2011 5:01 PM, BAR wrote:
In t,
says...

wrote in message
...
In ,
says...

In ,
wrote:

In ,
says...

In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote:
In
,
says...

In ,
Alan wrote:

In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com,
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote:



That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of
form
[over] substance


---------------------------------------------------------------------
----
---
--
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
----
---
--
--

Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the
original
Apple
computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300,
IIRC).
Apple
maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base
even
after
PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one.

If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an
exhorbitant
price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative,
then
that
is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer,
in
this
case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If
nobody
were
buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the
market.

They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a
whole
generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a
fashion
thing.
I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All
the
"creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on
windows
machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative
types
are
insufferable boors.

Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a
"fashion
thing".

How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools.

Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college
students
in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own
free
will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either.

What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5%
four
years ago?

Intel won.




Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is
a tad
bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is
just
as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper
education
and/or a virus/malware scanner ...

If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X
is
surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of
Linux.

It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use.

Keep trying. The world runs on Windows.

Keep trying - increasingly it does not. Check Apple's rapidly growing
market share. More importantly, I can tell you more and more college
students in technical fields like science and engineering are using Macs
these days. Programming in Matlab, Maple, Mathematica is the norm now,
and they all run perfectly on OS X. Plus they get all the benefits of OS
X in other applications, too. When these kids hit the job market, the
trend will simply continue.

I can tell you that at my large international corporation we are still
not embracing Apple on the desktop. We are running Windows and Linux and
we will soon be running dumb tubes, throw back to the 70's, on the
desktop. There is no reason to put a high dollar, high end computer on
everyone's desktop to run e-mail, surfing, and spreadsheets and
documents.

We are embracing the iPad primarily because we can use it to get to VMs
and because we can run web enabled applications. You can effectively
take your desktop anywhere. These are the only two requirements of a
"pad" that we need. As soon as something cheaper than the iPad is
available we will officially support that and may even provide it to our
users.

The desktop only needs to be a tube, keyboard, and mouse with a
connection to our network.

Amazon is supposedly coming out with a $200 dollar upgrade to the Nook that
will go directly against the IPad.
It will be running Android and will be open architecture.
Time to start looking at a short on Apple


What does open architecture mean?

What is needed is run any application, not just applications purchased
thru amazon.

My wife has a Nook Color and it does just about everything she needs.
The web browser is pretty good.


Exactly, electronic books in an open architecture which can be read on
any appliance using any software/hardware of choice ... instead of them
all attempting to be "the next phone company" and sell us a ridiculously
cheap service at a ridiculously HIGH PROFIT!

Might as well just buy the book ...

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/13/2011 5:29 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 20:01:46 -0400, wrote:

What does open architecture mean?

What is needed is run any application, not just applications purchased
thru amazon.

My wife has a Nook Color and it does just about everything she needs.
The web browser is pretty good.

No computer can run any application.


Any application can be written to run on any platform ... unless you are
talking about attempting to run an operating system on a 1.98 calculator ...

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

I already tried out an ersatz 'laptop' back in February or March of this
year when I bought a Motorola Atrix smart phone with the laptop
dock.Little bitty 10.5 inch laptop dock screen, Screw that sheet! A week
after I bought that stuff, I took it back to the AT&T retail store and I
got my money back, minus the restocking fee.
I found out a laptop is not for me.I prefer big desktop computers with
big monitors.
I don't tote anyway.

My WebTV screen is a 27'' Sansui CRT TV set I bought at Walmart.
cuhulin

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/13/2011 7:33 PM, J R wrote:
I already tried out an ersatz 'laptop' back in February or March of this
year when I bought a Motorola Atrix smart phone with the laptop
dock.Little bitty 10.5 inch laptop dock screen, Screw that sheet! A week
after I bought that stuff, I took it back to the AT&T retail store and I
got my money back, minus the restocking fee.
I found out a laptop is not for me.I prefer big desktop computers with
big monitors.
I don't tote anyway.

My WebTV screen is a 27'' Sansui CRT TV set I bought at Walmart.
cuhulin


I have a little 10 inch Acer net book, actually, I love it. Just wish
there was a usb cell TX/RX dongle and phone software, I'd chuck my
android and have a REAL CELL PHONE ... and netbook ... the atom
processor provides amazing performance for what it is ... I don't even
notice the time passing at appts, shopping, etc. as I play solitare,
surf, email, etc.

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

In article , - Lloyd E Parsons
spouted !

On 10/13/11 7:56 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 12, 11:49 pm, John wrote:
On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote:









In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...

Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for
Windows
or for Linux.

Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?

Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not
must be a fool...

It's a cultural standard, today.

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...

Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac

snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.

LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T
substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better."

One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as
ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have
skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on
those statistics ...

Regards,
JS

For the Non-Techies : PC -vs- Mac
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...pare/pc-vs-mac

non-tech-r-i ~ RHF
.
.

LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta
love it!! :)

But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix)
machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer!

Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you
want and save a $1000 ...

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business
to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can
for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even
an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do
not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number.

Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales.

BFD

No, no.

Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all
personal computers sold in the last quarter.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On Oct 13, 5:09*pm, David Barts
wrote:
On Oct 13, 4:48*pm, John Smith wrote:









On 10/13/2011 4:19 PM, David Barts wrote:

On Oct 8, 5:42 pm, *wrote:

That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form of
substance.

Actually, they sell reliability and ease-of-use. Macs tend to "just
work" in most cases, including many cases where Linux or Windoze
require endless geekery to get something to work.

Reliability and ease-of-use come at a price. As someone who's an ex
systems support person and completely sick of systems geekery, that
price is worth it to me. If the price isn't worth it to you, don't buy
Apple products. Simple.

--
David Barts
Seattle, WA.

I rarely keep a machine beyond two years, then it gets the "pass me
down" to someone ... or the electronics recyclers where they pay me the
grand price of ~0.36 a pound ... video cards, memory and other
components going into the junk drawer for passing out to those in need
... I can't remember a computer ever failing me in that time, nor any
component other than a power supply, now and then, which was abused and
drew too much power through.

Reliability encompasses more than just service lifetime of the
hardware.

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

- I was merely responding to "dave"'s inane comment
- that the only reason anyone would purchase an Apple
- product is for fashion or lifestyle reasons.
-
- --
- David Barts
- Seattle, WA

Ah Yes, Dave is such a 'fashion' plate - rotfl ~ RHF
-remember-dave-has-his-reasons-;;-}}-