(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg
-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Good point. Certainly the source I just used only talks about computer sales
for complete systems. While in reality a lot of PC are component built
either by the consumer or by local computer stores.

Which would explain why I don't see as many Macs as would be indicated by
the fact that about 4.5% of all PC sales are Macs. Because PC sales of those
built up from components aren't counted. Which would mean every system I
have wouldn't count because ALL were component built. Yet, they are active
computers.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg


-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf
or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses
for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to
order basis by companies that do show their sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.


I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores
are recorded ...

Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San
Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I
have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people
from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in
senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up
building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ...

Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a
handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never
see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college
here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ...

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

John Smith wrote in
:

On 10/13/2011 11:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about "Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform
...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who
believes that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of
religious devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse
MAC's, is that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am
retired, for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked
hard in being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows
from your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers
with their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you
can for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run
their software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or
even an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware
and Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same
bang less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the
fools always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ...
evil just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any
crimes which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean,
like, DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what
you do not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the
PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I
mean ... do the same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number.

Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales.

BFD

No, no.

Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all
personal computers sold in the last quarter.


I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete
computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and
friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final
analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful
representation of the total PC market ...

Interesting.....it has been for a large number of years when discussing
market share.


--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)

Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over
the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue
over a bar bill on the Titanic.....

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg

-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or
from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from
components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that
build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never
reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if
one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to
get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a
consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from
the major players.


Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off
the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales
figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they represent a
significant portion of total PC sales.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market
that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around 50%
are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many systems
are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that someone has
put together.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute a
"miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and evidence
would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the total market.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/14/11 3:53 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg



-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf
or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses
for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to
order basis by companies that do show their sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.


I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores
are recorded ...

And don't amount for much these days. I know, I worked for a fairly
small dealership for many years and watched sales and profits keep
dwindling.

Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San
Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

Many, many times. Obviously you think you are nearly the only person
that is expert at computer sales and marketing.

I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I
have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people
from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in
senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up
building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ...

A claim that can't be proven such as this one of yours, is easy to make.
I've seen nothing from you that indicates you have done this at all.

Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a
handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never
see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college
here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ...

Regards,
JS

If you haven't seen them, that is even a better indication of your lack
of real knowledge of the computer market as a whole. Just some hobby
crap you do.

--
Lloyd

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg


-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the
shelf or from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up
from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several
people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain
they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll
takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU
sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any
indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system
sales and then only from the major players.

These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these
days the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2
man shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market.



Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either
off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their
sales figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they
represent a significant portion of total PC sales.

They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were
a significant part of the market, those days are long over.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around
50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many
systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that
someone has put together.

You must go to some really poor spots!! :)

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute
a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and
evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the
total market.

My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold
wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures
were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom
built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin
on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to
pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to
make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making
custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small
shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part
these days are the 1-2 person shops.

Insignificant in today's market.



--
Lloyd

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

Scout wrote:


http://news.softpedia.com/news/Gartn...1-211780.shtml


Meanwhile: Mac sales a

Mac sales in Q2 2011
"Mac sales increased 28 percent from last year, with 3.76 million sold"

http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-q2-201...million-ipads/


3.76/85 = 4.4%

So sales are actually less than my estimate of 4.5%

That's a LONG way from the 13% you assert.

No, bubba, sales of Macs increased by 13% (probably from Q1 2011) not
that Mac sales constitute 13% of all PC sales.

IOW, sales of Mac increased from about 3.25 Million to 3.76 Million per
quarter.

But next to total PC sales of 85 Million.....that's a pretty minimal
change representing a difference of only about 0.6% increase in market
share for that quarter.

Further if we look the BULK of Mac sales are the mobiles. Desktop Mac
sales continue to drop off.

"Apple sold 2.75 million laptops, compared to 1.01 million desktops,
with laptops accounting for 73 percent of Mac sales for the quarter. By
the end of the calendar year, it's likely three out of four Macs sold
will be portables. The inexorable trend towards niche status for
desktops continues."

http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-q2-201...million-ipads/


Seems people don't want a Mac sitting on their computer desk, unless
they can walk away with it.



When you choose to compare worldwide shipments for PCs to US shipments
for Macs you might get a distorted view. Rather than pick and choose
numbers from different sources, how about getting them from a single source?

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/13/...th-10-7-share/

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/14/2011 2:01 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:53 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some
used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg




-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not
represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom
built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf
or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses
for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to
order basis by companies that do show their sales figures.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.


I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores
are recorded ...

And don't amount for much these days. I know, I worked for a fairly
small dealership for many years and watched sales and profits keep
dwindling.

Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San
Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc.

Many, many times. Obviously you think you are nearly the only person
that is expert at computer sales and marketing.

I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I
have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people
from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in
senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up
building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ...

A claim that can't be proven such as this one of yours, is easy to make.
I've seen nothing from you that indicates you have done this at all.

Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a
handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never
see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college
here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ...

Regards,
JS

If you haven't seen them, that is even a better indication of your lack
of real knowledge of the computer market as a whole. Just some hobby
crap you do.


Like I say, I think what I have seen is pretty much the norm ...
although I'd like to be ... I am just not that special.

Or, in other words, those who haven't seen what I am speaking about most
like don't get out much ...

Regards,
JS

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 2:57 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 11:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote:
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Your post is an excellent example of what I have found
about
"Apple
People", they have a religious devotion to the platform
...

Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes
that
anyone
who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious
devotion...


Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse
MAC's, is
that I
write much of the software I use ... plus, I private
contract
to
develop
software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired,
for
the
most
part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it
simply
would not
make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the
business
to
make
money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked
hard in
being one
of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think
they
can
do that
without me ...

In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from
your
perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers
with
their own
OS? You can write software for that platform just as you
can
for
Windows
or for Linux.


Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their
software,
just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or
even
an
idildo,
for that matter! ROFLOL

So?

Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware
and
Microsoft
doesn't?


Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the
conversation
I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang
less
buck
will do ...

It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools
always end
up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil
just
doesn't really apply.

If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any
crimes
which
have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean,
like,
DUH!

Regards,
JS

As I said:

How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you
do
not
must be a fool...


It's a cultural standard, today.




Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res
HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

No like this.

http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications

CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac
Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac
Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac
Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac


snip

Like he said, Mac can't compete.


LOL

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number.

Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales.

BFD

No, no.

Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all
personal computers sold in the last quarter.


I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete
computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends
computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can
see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total
PC market ...

Regards,
JS

Hogwash! What you build and other hobbyists also, is such a tiny part of
the sales market it has no real bearing on the issue at all.

Really?

I suggest you browse through the systems for sale on Ebay and take note of
how many are NOT brand systems, but component built.

Further I will note:

Looking at just the top 5 retail motherboard makers.

Own Brand Retail motherboard sales in 2010 (does NOT include OEM sales)

Asustek - 21.6 Million
Gigabyte - 18 Million
ASRock - 8 Million
ECS - 7 Million
MSI - 7 Million

Total = 61.6 Million

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...rboard-maker/1

Given Q2 2011 PC sales were 85 Million

So let's assume that's typical.

85 * 4 = 340 million per year

plus the 61.6 million systems being sold by the top 5 motherboard makers.

equals 401.6 Million computers per year

61.6 /401.6 = Market share of over 15% (if you calculate for TOTAL computer
sales)

Which is about FOUR TIMES the TOTAL Mac sales. (3.76 Million *4) (or about
3.7% of computer sales)

Does that mean Mac sales are "a tiny part of the sales market it has no real
bearing on the issue at all. "?

After all Mac sales are at most only about a quarter of the sales of retail
motherboards. So if component built systems are too few to matter, then Macs
would be even MORE so.



And for the most part, few companies care about that build-your-own
hobbyist market except some parts makers.

61.6 Million motherboards sold last year would tend to suggest otherwise.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/14/2011 2:12 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote:


"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts
wrote:

Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price
premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's
not),
then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not
buying
them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone
making a different choice than I would have.

How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple
product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all
make the same choices, right?

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs
... my
niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as
far
as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of
friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number,
somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some
used,
but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer
...
and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to
play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the
airplanes ... lol

Regards,
JS

Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage}
-says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol]
http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg



-and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc'
http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg
.

... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not
represent
all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming
computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller
than that being quoted ...

Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom
built
PC ...

Regards,
JS

Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the
shelf or from companies that specialize in that market.

True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up
from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several
people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain
they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll
takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU
sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any
indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system
sales and then only from the major players.

These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these days
the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2 man
shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market.



Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either
off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their
sales figures.

Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local
computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they
represent a significant portion of total PC sales.

They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were a
significant part of the market, those days are long over.

Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall
market that has little significance in the overall market.

Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around
50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many
systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that
someone has put together.

You must go to some really poor spots!! :)

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there.

So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute
a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and
evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the
total market.

My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold
wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures
were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom
built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin
on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to
pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to
make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making
custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small
shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part
these days are the 1-2 person shops.

Insignificant in today's market.




Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC:

" You must go to some really poor spots!! :)

Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there."

Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy!

I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is
partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ...
and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together
.... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL

Regards,
JS