(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems
customized to their specific desires.

Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made
my computers have all closed and not been replaced.

True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the
overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to
pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your
business through internet orders.

Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants
really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized
as having a big name computer by mail order.

I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is
cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be
running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the
parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made,
UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in.

Then the question becomes who does the warranty when things don't go
right, and who provides tech support if you need it? The guy that
doesn't think his labor is worth much??

--
Lloyd

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

On 10/16/11 4:21 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:42:15 -0600, Alan
wrote:

I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works
better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in
terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well
worth it.

Don't you know? When people make choices different from my choices
it doesn't mean they looked at the facts and picked what was best for
them. No, it means that they have succumbed to the dark side and it
is our duty to convert them. And we will call *them* irrational
fanboyz.

Tut, tut, Howard. That's "fanbois".... :)


--
Lloyd

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

You can lay down big bucks for a computer that has top quality parts, or
you can buy a $248.00 computer at Sears that has low quality parts.Like
the elderly guy who works in the electronics department at the Sears
store at Metrocenter Mall told me last March, Use it and then throw it
away.

He is right too.
There are two grades of parts, Top Quality parts, and Low Quality
parts.The Low Quality parts, that is why they can sell those computers
so cheap.
cuhulin

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Howard wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots
of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being
sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.


Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ...


If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average
person wants to do with a computer".


But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent
video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a
bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful
computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real
upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year.

No, actually, you don't.

I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I
want it to do.

And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't
need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need
the power that a high-end desktop has.

Yep, and for that very reason, why should they pay a lot more money for a
machine that basically does the exact same job of a much cheaper PC?

IOW, you just shot yourself in the foot.

Nope. Because it does it in a manner that is easier for ordinary people
to handle. It works *better*.


I mean you can make up a very decent system that will handle most people
fine for much longer than 4 years, do it for a fraction of the price of a
Mac, and will be vastly more upgradeable when they do need to make changes.

And as long as they have you to help them out every few weeks, they'll
be fine.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Howard wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots
of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being
sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.


Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ...


If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average
person wants to do with a computer".


But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent
video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a
bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful
computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real
upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year.

No, actually, you don't.

I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I
want it to do.

And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't
need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need
the power that a high-end desktop has.

Yep, and for that very reason, why should they pay a lot more money for a
machine that basically does the exact same job of a much cheaper PC?

IOW, you just shot yourself in the foot.

I mean you can make up a very decent system that will handle most people
fine for much longer than 4 years, do it for a fraction of the price of a
Mac, and will be vastly more upgradeable when they do need to make changes.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:

...
I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of
the
mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider.
Not
going to happen.

But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech
market with consumers with a few bucks.



Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the
world,
dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their
fantasies
... roflol

Still, one must keep a foot in reality ...

Regards,
JS

In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In
that,
it
has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to
talk
about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but
that
is being done at pathetic profit levels.

Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to
laptops.
Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all
applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the
bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications
and
build quality are all pretty much the same in cost.

Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops.

Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of
laptops
sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market


But Apple makes most of the profit...

:-)

Shows they overprice their goods....

Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that?

Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others......

Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me.

Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at
buying
their products.

I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works
better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in
terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well
worth it.

:-)\

And then you have a bunch more people that decide, that the extra price
really isn't worth it.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya
gotta
love it!! :)

But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX
(unix)
machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer!

Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux
you
want and save a $1000 ...

Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks,
or
under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you
can
put together a decent gaming computer for a grand!

I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping
this,
but...

...most people have no interest in building their own computers.


Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one,
the
ones buying macs are proof enough of that ...

No.

That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people.

Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well.

No. They do not.

Sure they do, according to the standard you set above. Since at least 4
times as many people have them, then they most work well for four times as
many normal people.



So what's your point?

Most people have neither the interest nor the knowledge to build their
own systems.

yawn

I've already shot that assertion down....so why do you keep repeating it?

Do you think if you say it enough times, that the facts will suddenly
change?

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 2:09 PM, Scout wrote:


"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya
gotta
love it!! :)

But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX
(unix)
machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer!

Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of
Linux
you
want and save a $1000 ...

Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400
bucks, or
under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc.
you can
put together a decent gaming computer for a grand!

I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping
this,
but...

...most people have no interest in building their own computers.


Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one,
the
ones buying macs are proof enough of that ...

No.

That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people.

Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well.

So what's your point?


work 4 times as well doing what?

The number of people buying them.


So in other words, nothing like what you said.

Certainly it does.

By your standard of people buying them......they work 4 times as well,
because 4 times as many people buy them.

Don't blame me because you don't understand your own standard.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Howard Brazee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots
of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being
sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.

Cite?


http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm

http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi
nav.pdf

http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015
-laptops-will-still-reign/

Sorry, but somehow I don't see little tables (iPad and knockoffs) as being a
adequate replacement for desktop and laptop systems. IOW, people are buying
these new toys rather than upgrading their perfectly adequate desktop. I
suspect this to be merely a phase and as the mobile market is saturated you
will find a sudden drop off in sales.

However, I will agree that at the moment desktop sales are down, however,
looking around I don't see a lot of people trading in their desktop for a
laptop, but rather getting a laptop for use in conjunction with their
desktop.

(OT) Steve Jobs.
 

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/16/2011 1:49 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Alan wrote in message
...
In ,
. net wrote:

"Howard wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots
of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being
sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.

Cite?


http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm

http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi
nav.pdf

http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015
-laptops-will-still-reign/


Somehow, I would not even put tablets in the same universe as a decent
laptop! Nor an android phone, calculator, etc. lol

Regards,
JS

Way to miss the point!

Point: desktops are declining in market share; giving way to laptops.

No, simply means that the recent sharp drop in price and increase in
performance is allowing the desire for laptops to be fulfilled. (ie you
removed the damn across the river and the lake is now filling). I think once
the market saturates you will find quite a bit of difference because I know
very few people who have traded in their desktop for a laptop. Most are
simply buying a laptop for parallel use with their desktop. And many mobile
devices (iPad) will never replace laptops or desktops and yet...they are a
significant part of what you claim is a growing laptop market. Actually you
should refer to it as the mobile market, to be precise.