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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 5:46 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total PC market ... You are welcome to present evidence that computers purchased as components and then assemble form any significant fraction of personal computer sales... Don't have to, anyone not living under a rock knows it ... it is self-apparent ... one would have to stick their head in a hole to miss it. Regards, JS So you have nothing... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...A0D622CE9F579F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article , John Smith
wrote: On 10/13/2011 9:45 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...=A0D622CE9F579 F09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Regards, JS BOINC even ... list of BOINC projects he http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php Excerpt from that: "Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. " And not one word that says you be able to compile or link faster... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 3:29 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:45:12 -0700, John wrote: "Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. " We may. But the application I have which is intolerably slow is Librarian Pro. Apparently it uses the Access database engine that has troubles with libraries as large as mine. A faster graphics card won't make it faster. I wonder if I have any applications that I would notice a speed increase with a faster graphics card. Well, first a 3.0+ ghz processor, multicore/multithreaded, 64 bit OS, fast frontside buss, fast memory, fast storage devices/software, buffers created for redundant search/filing, etc. features, etc. would be the way to go ... then, with a firm base, exploit stealing GPU cycles/time ... if speed is really a valid need, water cooling and over clocking are very useful techniques -- of the CPU, itself -- applications using parallel processing, motherboards with multiple physical, and multiple cored, processors, etc. Also, the search/storage formats, methods, techniques, structure of data handling is VERY IMPORTANT ... if speed is failing, you should attempt to locate software which uses BINARY TREES in the handling of the data ... by asking 10 questions, you can find one unique element within a pool of over 1,000,000 ... these are some of the most fast, effective and efficient data processing algorithms in existence, if not THE MOST ... I am thinking, if there is a need, someone has already written it, or is writing it ... Wow. You've heard of binary trees... ....you MUST be a computer science expert! It is true, the application in question cannot use these advanced techniques, unless the application has been made capable/aware by the software engineers maintaining the app in question. It might be possible to locate one for the use in question, inquires of those in the field might put you on the right track -- if available. Often, I have been employed just to find applications/software to fit some extremely narrow slice of use ... many make a very comfortable income doing nothing else -- only consulting on software/hardware ... it is possible just to "ask around" and be privy to such valuable info., worth a try ... But then, powerful video cards are usually only found in high end game and business/production, research machines ... slapping in a high end video card is certainly not the first, or even middle of the line, upgrade one would first jump to ... indeed, probably the last after every other possible upgrade and a want/need for speed is still a necessity ... Or, simple said, it is well beyond the needs of most casual users (BOINC and computer games being a notable exception) ... however, valid when comparing/benchmarking hardware capabilities ... and, as pointed out, there are valid and valuable uses for it. You said it was important to you for "compiling and linking"... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better." I didn't present it to substantiate that. One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on those statistics ... LOL Please, John: go look at the trend. The information is out there. When I see massive changes in my family friends, the computers I maintain and repair, the industry I work in ... I will, I simply won't have a choice ... at this time, it is simply a non-issue ... makes me really question those figures ... When you control only about 4-4.5% of the market....a 13% increase in sales doesn't really show up as anything significant. I would suspect the increase is drive by I-Pad sales....not Mac. For all we know the sale of Macintosh computers has dropped off. Actually, no. We know that the Mac computers sales have increased and outgrown the rest of the personal computer market for something like 22 straight quarters. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:22:53 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: However, they are often willing to buy component built systems because they are better or cheaper than named PC packages. Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:12:52 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: Already done, and by retail motherboard sales of the top 5 makers, they constitute about 15% of total computer sales, and by the same measure Macs constitute some 3.7%. Is this for 2011? For what countries? I'd like to see the source for these numbers. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
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