i glad to hear at least someone cares about their costumers. What other
providers besides verizon were working at least for a while.?

Trooperdude wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:07:07 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

I know that there are several providers and most of them were out. I
might
be wrong about Verizon but most of the cellular phone were out of action
which was my point. Because if that's why most people have cellulars so
that
no matter where they are or what happens they can contact their family
etc.
But now as far as im concerned cellulars are not reliable.

Perhaps not reliable for the "average" person.

Verizon kept a percentage of capacity in reserve for public safety,
and the new public safety phones have priority, so will knock "no
priority" calls off the tower if they place a call.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:13:45 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"erniegalts" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:53:44 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

were i am none of the public phones worked and most of the cellular
phones
didnt worked either--ie verizon.

"Tim May" wrote in message
t...

Just to clairify in my mind, neither analog nor digital [CMDA, etc] ?

Rather limits the usefulness of mobiles if a mere power failure can
take them out.

However, is 2 metres any better?


Yes 2 meters is better as, if necessary, we can relay messages ham to ham to
the final destination if our repeaters are out. Plus of course we hams can
use other frequencies. If 2 meters isn't getting the job done for relatively
local communications, we can go to something that has a good ground wave
(such as 80 meters) and cover quite an extended local area very easily.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

True, but was thinking more along the lines of carrying a 2-metre
handheld, which a lot of hams here tend to carry around. Haven't seen
any 80 meter handhelds, although if had a mobile covering all amateur
bands would no doubt be very useful in an emergency, especially if had
one of the old ones which would transmit outside amateur bands.

To save time will quote one of my earlier posts to misc.survivalism.
--------------------------------------
From:
Subject: Survival test failed
Date: 2000/08/10
Message-ID:
X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 965832566 203.102.215.100 (Thu, 10 Aug 2000
00:49:26 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:49:26 EST
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism

7== Some of you may have seen a TV series called "Eye of the Storm".
One episode dealt with the destruction of Darwin, Northern Territory,
by Cyclone Tracy on Christmas Eve/ early Christmas morning 1974.
No services including power and phones. Darwin had a huge Radio
Australia shortwave transmitter, an RAAF air base, and a RAN navy
base...but guess who got the first message out to the rest of
Australia. A radio amateur, of course. :-)

The peak of the destruction was around 0330 to 0400, and from memory
it wasn't until 0600 or 0700 that the media in the rest of the country
announced the story. Not sure when the first message actually got
out. Remarkably enough, death toll was only around 70.

The city was pretty well flattened. At the time of the cyclone,
population was around 46,000 people and area was 233 square kilometres
[about 90 square miles]. Depending on just where draw the boundaries
of the city have the choice of two damage reports. One says that
3,000 houses survived out of 12,000, the other says that only 400
survived intact out of 8,200.

Unlike the US, Australia doesn't have a lot of cities or towns. The
nearest towns of any size would have been Alice Springs to the south
and Mt. Isa, Queensland to the southwest, both about 1,200 km [745
miles] away by road. So a massive airlift had to be organized.
30,000 people were airlifted out in first 8 days, women and children
out in first 6 days.

No choice, really. No power, no phones, no city water, not much
undamaged food. Darwin is tropical, being 12º27' south of the
equator, and, since seasons are reversed here, was midsummer. Posted
a bit on the evacuation in item #5 Newsgroups: misc.survivalism ///
Subject: severely wounded, administering morphine /// Date: Fri,
16 Jun 2000 09:36:39 +1000 ///
Message-ID: ]

One of the reasons damage was so great is that most homes were built
in what was then a very popular tropical style. Most of the house was
on columns or pilings about 8 feet off the ground. At ground level
was usually a brick bathroom and laundry, with an internal staircase
up to the house. Rest of the area under the house was used as a
carport. Main reason for this style of construction was for
protection against tropical termites, which would even eat through the
lead sheathing on telephone cables. Was also cooler than a building
on ground level.

Not too great for resisting a cyclone such as Tracy, though. City has
since been completely rebuilt, no sign of the cyclone damage.
------------------------------------------------

erniegalts

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:05:30 GMT, helmsman
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:38:55 GMT, Ron Hardin
wrote:

What's wrong with not communicating during a blackout? It's a perfect
time to do something else.

Depending on the emergency it may cost you your life :'(

Some good points on this list!

The best way to communicate is with a ham radio. Here is a list "THAT
SHOULD BE PRINTED NOW!!"
and put away so you have it of information that will help during the
next time something goe's wrong.
A short list of things and facts to have on hand if things start
looking grim - If you print this you will ALWAYS have it.
o A normally active adult needs to drink at least two quarts of water
daily. Intense physical activity can double that amount. Children,
nursing mothers and people in poor health will need more.
o A medium size dog requires about one gallon of water per day; a cat,
about one pint.
o City water is generally already treated. No additional treatment is
necessary unless the system is compromised.

Which it is likely to be, especially following a power failure, flood
or earthquake. All city water systems have lots of major and minor
leaks. Household meter readings will never total the reading on the
master meter with the possible exception of a brand new system.

Minor leaks cannot be located and repaired until water shows up on the
surface, and in sandy or gravelly subsoils often has to be a large
leak before it will show up.

Pipes often run through soil with chemical or bacteriological
contamination, and the only thing that keeps the system safe is that
it is normally constantly pressurized. However, if the pressure
fails, then people drawing water from lines on a slope or hill will
cause a vacuum to be drawn on the mains and service lines drawing
contamination into the pipes.

In any disaster, is safer to assume contamination whether warnings
have been issued or not. Boiling will kill most if not all pathogenic
[disease causing] viruses, bacteria, etc. but will not remove most
chemicals.

It is far safer to keep at least a three day supply of water, and many
keep at least 2 weeks worth.

Store water in clean,
deodorized, food-grade plastic containers with screw-on caps (soft
drink, milk bottles or drums, for example). Avoid using containers
that will decompose or break, such as paper milk cartons or glass
bottles. Replace stored tap water every six months.
o Do not use containers that retain strong odors from previously
stored foods, those that held toxic products or those without an
airtight seal.
o Store your water in a dark place away from paint and petroleum-based
products, acids or anything having objectionable odors (i.e.,
fertilizer or household cleaners). Laboratory tests confirm that
chlorine used to treat water and guard against bacterial growth lasts
longer in refrigerated water than water kept at room temperature.
o To use the water in your pipes, let air into the plumbing by turning
on the faucet at the highest point in your house and draining the
water from the faucet at the lowest point.
o To use the water in your water heater, be sure the electricity or
gas is off. Open the drain at the bottom of the tank. Start the water
flowing by turning off the cold water intake valve above the hot water
tank and turning on any hot water faucet. Do not turn on the gas or
electricity when the tank is empty.
o Disinfect rainwater or water from snow before drinking.
o Boiling is the best way to disinfect water. Bring the water to a
rolling boil for five minutes. Let cool before drinking. To improve
taste, pour water back and forth repeatedly between two containers to
aerate the water. Bleach directions below from Clorox.com.
o You can disinfect water using household bleach. Choose a brand that
does not contain soaps or other additives. The label should read 5.25%
percent of sodium hypochlorite. To treat one gallon of clear water,
use 16 drops of bleach or 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. If the water is
cloudy, or if the bleach is over one year old, use twice as much
bleach. Stir the water vigorously and let it sit for 30 minutes. Pour
the water back and forth between two containers several times to
improve taste. Repeat if no bleach smell after 30 minutes.
o If you use an eyedropper or measuring spoon to add bleach, do not
use them for any other purpose.
o Adding powdered drinks like Kool-Aid and Tang will help disguise odd
tasting water from disinfecting by boiling or bleach. In an Emergency
use water in: Pipes, Water heater = turn off first!, toilet tank-not
bowl, ice cubes, rain water and snow.
1. Flashlights for everyone and enough batteries to last one week.
2. A battery-operated radio and enough batteries to ensure one week of
continuous play.
3. A regular telephone that is connected to telephone land lines by a
standard telephone wall jack. (Cordless telephones and telephones that
plug into an electrical outlet may not work if there is no
electricity.)
4. A three-day supply (minimum) of stored tap water and nonperishable
food.
5. A manual (nonelectric) can opener.
6. Paper plates, cups, napkins, plastic eating utensils, and paper
towels.
7. An alternative heating source, such as a generator and electrical
heaters or fireplace. Stock up on extra firewood.
8. An alternative means to cook food, such as a charcoal or propane
grill and enough charcoal and lighter fluid or propane to last a week.
9. A fire extinguisher.
10. Liquid chlorine bleach with 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite and
no additives
11. An eyedropper or measuring spoons.
12. Extra garbage bags.
13. Sanitary wipes or no rinse antibacterial hand wash for cleaning
hands without water.
14. No rinse shampoo for washing hair without water.
15. A fully stocked first aid kit, including any specific prescription
requirements.

Depending on nature and duration of disaster people who are dependent
on prescription medication often immediately rush out and refill
scrips whether have used existing scrips or not. Most prescription
medications are fairly expensive and some go out of date. Therefore,
most pharmacists don't carry much extra stock, often relying on almost
daily deliveries from wholesalers.

Most stock systems are electronic these days, and if power is out
pharmacies can easily run out of items without even realizing it,
wholesalers have difficulty filling orders if their systems are down,
or ordering more from manufacturers.

If really need a medication, would advise keeping at least two week
supply at all times.

16. A shut off wrench (to turn off household gas and water).
17. Extra cash. 18. Extra Ammo - BE PREPARED, BECAUSE IF YOUR NOT ?

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:02:39 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:39:14 GMT, erniegalts
wrote:

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote:

Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code
requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should
be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2
metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that
much harder.

General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not
been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class
licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not
required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on
VHF/UHF.

So, once again ernie, you are wrong.

http://www.arrl.org/pio/hamlic.html

Sorry, Brock, it is you that are wrong, and for the second time in a
matter of weeks. First time was when you accused me of being unable
to calculate the resonant length of a 1/4 wave vertical.

A quick advanced search on the net would have shown you that have
mentioned this in several posts, see following excerpt from one of the
early ones.

=============================
From: "Wombat"
Subject: Handheld Ham Radio Antenna(e) Questions
Date: 1999/03/01
Message-ID:

[snip]

1== Not familiar with these particular transceivers, the formula for
any full-length quarter wave whip working against a ground plane is
[in metric measurements]
Length in meters = 75 divided by operating frequency

The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an
antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 =
0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513
metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches.

75/ 440 = 170.455 mm or 6.71081inches.

2== I assume you will be getting an amateur license before operate
on these frequencies, as governments tend to take a dim view of
unlicensed operation, and amateurs will go to considerable lengths to
catch unlicensed operators.

3== The above formula gives the theoretical lengths for a resonant
1/4 wave working against a ground plane. Some hand transceivers use
the unit itself or the operators hand to act as a "ground plane" A
"rubber ducky" antenna is often just a resonant 1/4 wave wound into a
shorter coil, and does restrict range.
================================

Actually, have done a fair bit of experimentation with antennas.
Corner reflectors, trough reflectors, yagis, arrays, non-resonant long
wires, rhombics, etc.

You second mistake was the belief that code was still a requirement,
although the International Telecommunications Union end this almost a
month ago.

Were you involved in previous debates on need for current control on
LEDs, the differences between an a electrochemical cell and a battery
made up from same? Don't remember offhand, but you seem very anxious
to catch me in a mistake. Why is this, Brock?

erniegalts

"erniegalts" wrote in message
...
The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an
antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 =
0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513
metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches.

This is good math, but usually for a 1/4 wave radiator, 5% is subtracted for
velocity factor, leaving the basic 1/4 wave radiator for 2m at approximately
19".

If you're looking for an incredibly full-featured Ham Transceiver, look no
further than the Yaesu-817. 2-meter and 6-meter for local use, and then
pretty much everything else for long distance. All you need is a good
portable antenna and tuner and you'll never be out of touch. It's a "legal"
QSL radio with it's maximum 5watt output and can be set up as a base station
(many people have) or slip it into it's case and sling it over your shoulder
for true portability.
But by the way, you need to get your Ham license before you get one.
Reputable Ham dealers will NOT sell you a transceiver unless you furnish
your call sign that matches the address you want them to mail it to.

MJC

"mad amoeba" wrote in message
. net...
I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me thinking
of
how would
one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones were
out.
Cellular phones didn't work either. So the only way of receiving
informaiton
was by radio.
My old Sony wm-gx670 did quite nicely. But what if I would need to
communicate with
my relatives or even cops to let them know of an emmergency. If
telephone/cellular/internet
are not available what are my other options? Let's say people I want to
communicate with
are more than several miles away in an urban area. That makes CB radio
useless--right? So
then as far as I understand using ham radio is my only option. With that
you
can either get in
touch with your relatives directly, provided they have ham radio as well,
or
you can call
some person in an area without blackout and tell them to call
police/ambulance etc if that's
what you need.

Not knowing much myself about scanners/shortwaves/hams myself I want to
ask
you guys
with more experience if the below piece of equipment is what I need.

As far as I understand this is an handheld ham radio which also functions
as
a scanner and
can also receive on a shortwave band. So it will allow me to communicate
with people
far away even in urban setting, it is portable and it will also allow me
to
monitor news as
well as police/firefighters etc. Am I right?

Yaesu VX-2R
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html

the price is kind of steep but for all-in-one product I would be willing
to
pay it.

It's simple to throw together a set of field telephones from 2 common
type American telephones (complete telephones). Simply connect the red
and green wires with at least a 9 volt battery (up to 48 volts DC) in a
big loop, but you'll have to play around with finding and adding the
right value resistor to the loop to limit the volume. DC volts has a
limited range tho. It's very complicated however, making a phone ring,
so for your ringer you can salvage a couple door bells (or other DC volt
device) to act as your ringer with the switch for each at the opposing
end. You can pick up an ordinary phone at some dollar stores for about
$7 each. Since you don't have to modify the phone itself, you can easily
return it to common use.

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"KB9WFK" wrote in message
news
How do you define "a few miles"? Like I said in another post, I can
go 18 miles on my 7 Watt 2 Meter HT. Put a decent antenna on it and I
can talk a lot further. Our club repeater has over a 50 mile range
and only puts out 25 Watts.
Depending on usage, our repeater can go 4 or 5 days with no outside
power.

KB9WFK

I was able to hit a 'local' repeater with my HTX-202 using only the stock
antenna from a distance in excess of 50 miles. This was from a place in
the
valley west of Salem, OR to a hillside east of Vancouver, WA. This was
using
5 watts for clean copy. If one station is in a good location, even an HT
can get very good range on 2m.



The key element is antenna height. If the repeater antenna is high enough,
you can get quite good distances. Or if your own antenna is high enough,
same thing. Naturally if both antennas are high, possible distances
increase.

On the other hand, rubber duck antenna to rubber duck antenna at ground
level, 2 to 5 miles will generally be the limit.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:34:35 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:


"erniegalts" wrote in message
.. .
The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an
antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 =
0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513
metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches.

This is good math, but usually for a 1/4 wave radiator, 5% is subtracted for
velocity factor, leaving the basic 1/4 wave radiator for 2m at approximately
19".


True, but the formula is only a rough guide anyway. Even at much
lower frequencies there are a few variables, and at VHF and UHF
wavelengths antenna length can be very critical.

On Australian UHF CB band can make a nice little handheld 3 element
Yagi out of a UHF socket and an old coathanger which will give around
3 or 4 dB gain. [Perfectionists would probably use aluminum, copper,
or even silver wire, though. ]

Passing thought: Will Brock rush into print claiming that copper is a
better conductor than silver? :-)

Corner reflectors or arrays usually a better choice for more gain,
although even high gain rhrombics with theoretical 25 dB gain are a
manageable size at UHF if looking for really reliable point to point
communication.

Can make up 9 DB collinear omnidirectional verticals for UHF from RG-8
coax and plastic electrical conduit, although fiberglass is better.
Not much margin for error at these frequencies, though.

Can make a pretty decent UHF TV antenna using an phased array made up
of a chicken wire reflector and beer or soft drink cans as elements.
Not as good as an 18 element Yagi, but cheap and easy alternative.

Antennas can be great fun to play with. Was raised in a rural area,
and when TV first became available some local farmers were spending a
lot of money for tall masts and high gain Yagis to pull in a good VHF
signal.

However, I was highly amused when one old farmer who knew no antenna
or propagation theory whatsoever pulled in nearly as good as signal by
using a junked bedspring from a double bed, which he mounted on an old
apple crate and leaned against a tree, using rubber from old inner
tubes as insulation. He was just using flat 300 ohm lead in, split
the antenna end and fitted with alligator clips, and played around
with trial and error until found the proper feedpoint. He had no
terrain advantage over the others and doubt if an expensive Yagi at a
similar level would have worked much better.

His neighbors who had spent a lot more on their antennas weren't quite
as amused, though. :-)

When I was a kid, a lot of amateurs used "home brew" equipment, but
most amateurs these days seem to take their transceiver back to the
dealer for anything more complicated than replacing an incandescent
bulb or an LED indicator. :-)

The radio scanner enthusiast might consider building a large discone
antenna if has the space. No gain, but good SWR over many decades of
frequency range. Simple to build, size of disk and skirt not
especially critical as long as large enough to cover lowest frequency
of interest. Most libraries should have a reasonably current ARRL
Antenna handbook.

erniegalts

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:22:00 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

But by the way, you need to get your Ham license before you get one.
Reputable Ham dealers will NOT sell you a transceiver unless you furnish
your call sign that matches the address you want them to mail it to.

There are not very many reputable ham dealers if that is the case. Many
will sell without asking if you are a ham. There is no US requirement that
you have a license to buy a transceiver , just to transmitt on one.

Probably, but is it a good idea to have something that is illegal to
use in most cases? Most hams are quite protective of their band
allocations and spend a lot of time tracking down illegal users.

Same thing happened here when UHF CB was introduced. CB sets on HF
and UHF had to be licensed at the time. Most people who went on UHF
when it was introduced were former users of HF Citizens Band and were
determined to keep the idiots and children off UHF.

Those who didn't use registered call signs, or otherwise didn't stick
to regulations found that those with call signs would simply refuse to
answer their transmissions. Having seen the 27 MHz service in cities
deteriorate to the point where it wasn't useful most of the day,
users of the new UHF service were determined that it didn't go the
same way.

Unlicensed operators were usually quickly reported to Department of
Communications, which is Australian equivalent of the F.C.C.

There were even viligantie groups doing transmitter hunts for illegal
operators. These were often persuaded to sell their sets and go back
to the 27 MHz "chicken band" if they couldn't bother to get a license
or use proper procedure.

Sometimes their equipment was sabatoged. However, am not about to
give advice how this can be done, of course. Not that I would stoop
to such activity, but some users enjoyed it. :-)

If really interested on using amateur radio equipment for emergency
use, should know at least some theory and practice. ....And as long
as going to do this, why not learn the regulations as well and get a
license?

erniegalts