"CW" wrote in message
news:zEP2b.267374$o%2.121884@sccrnsc02...
I think there is a big panic about something that will probably be a minor
annoyance to some. Not a problem to most. Do people seriously think that
airports are just going to cease communicating with their planes? How
about
the military HF network. I can see them now. Sitting around the pentagon
saying "forget national security, people have to get their email". Think
about it.

It's my wild ass guess that BPL won't be a big success, but I do think
cheating on the BPL power will be a real temptation. Anyway, it will be
tough on radio hobbyists in a BPL neighborhood, and it certainly will be
heard over a wider region. But, you're probably right. The world isn't
coming to an end over this. Brother Stair has been quiet on the whole BPL
issue.

Frank Dresser

"DickCarroll" wrote in message
om...
"Frank Dresser" analogdial@worldnet




Hey Frank, where'd you ever get the idea that radio *isn't* open to
the public?
I never knew anyone whatever who wanted a ham radio license who was
barred from getting one. There is a small matter of qualifying for it,
of course, as there is in every endeavor where others can and will be
impacted when the licensee knows not which way is up. But it has
always been open to all comers.


OK, amateur radio is open to the public. But nearly all amateur radio
activity is either contacts between hams or some sort of test. I'm under
the impression that amatuers broadcasting what might be considered
entertainment programming to the public is banned. Am I wrong about that?



Now if you're talking "open" like CB is open, that's a horse of an
entirely different color.

Dick

More like pirate radio. I've heard some very entertaining stuff, and I hope
to hear alot more. I know that time can be bought on an independent
broadcaster, but I'd really like to know why what Alan Maxwell and the other
do is illegal. I think hobby broadcasting would bring alot of positive
interest to SW radio.

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...


More like pirate radio. I've heard some very entertaining stuff, and I
hope
to hear alot more. I know that time can be bought on an independent
broadcaster, but I'd really like to know why what Alan Maxwell and the
other
do is illegal. I think hobby broadcasting would bring alot of positive
interest to SW radio.

Frank Dresser



It may be fun, but keep in mind a few things. 1) It is difficult to control
where a signal goes. 2) There are international agreements that help to
avoid interference.

Given the above, allowing radio to be a free for all would only serve to
promote interference from stations on the same frequency. That interference
can detract from people listening to transmissions that are complying with
the agreements and laws. Interference can have serious results if it
interferes with aircraft or miliraty communications.

Just imagine the shortwave spectrum being used just like the 27 MHz band.

I'd rather have the order that the laws and agreements provide.

craigm

Frank Dresser wrote:


"DickCarroll" wrote in message
om...
"Frank Dresser" analogdial@worldnet




Hey Frank, where'd you ever get the idea that radio *isn't* open to
the public?
I never knew anyone whatever who wanted a ham radio license who was
barred from getting one. There is a small matter of qualifying for it,
of course, as there is in every endeavor where others can and will be
impacted when the licensee knows not which way is up. But it has
always been open to all comers.


OK, amateur radio is open to the public. But nearly all amateur radio
activity is either contacts between hams or some sort of test. I'm under
the impression that amatuers broadcasting what might be considered
entertainment programming to the public is banned. Am I wrong about that?

No, you're absolutely right. Amateur broadcasting is banned-only point
to point comms between hams are allowed. In fact, what you could call
amateur broadcasting is banned on ALL bands. Nobody wants to listen to
the Liberty Net, or be limited by archaic rules made in the 1920s as to
what types of comms hams are limited to.



Now if you're talking "open" like CB is open, that's a horse of an
entirely different color.

Dick

More like pirate radio. I've heard some very entertaining stuff, and I hope
to hear alot more. I know that time can be bought on an independent
broadcaster, but I'd really like to know why what Alan Maxwell and the other
do is illegal. I think hobby broadcasting would bring alot of positive
interest to SW radio.

The FCC's standard excuse is that band space is a finite resource. True
enough. But if there's enough room for point to point hams on SW, then a
portion of band spectrum could easily be allocated for amateur
broadcasting-like pirate radio except with licenses and allocated
frequencies. Take an old utility band and use it for broadcasting.
Licensing of amateur broadcasting would allow the Alan Maxwells of the
US to do what they do while giving the FCC a stick to use against truly
malicious operators, like the guys who used to interrupt police radios,
or the pirates who choose international air freqs. And the best part
would be that people wouldn't have to break the law and risk absurd
fines (the highest in the world, from what I've heard) to be hobbyists.
I fail to see how amateur broadcasting on SW endangers the audiences of
mainstream AM and FM stations.

One final note, many of radio's pioneers were amateur broadcasters. Like
Charles Herrold of San Jose (CA) who was broadcasting phonograph music
before there were any radio regulations at ALL. He would identify each
broadcast by reading the address of his engineering college over the
air. Or Fessenden or whatever his name was who broadcast music and
voices to ship radio ops (at a time when Morse code was all that was
allowed). Early on, amateur and ship licenses were the only ones
available, so amateurs DID broadcast. Once Westinghouse showed there was
a profitable market for general broadcasting, the hams were summarily
booted off AM (550-1500 khz then) and moved up to "useless" shortwave.

Frank Dresser wrote:


"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...

From http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2003/08/21/4/?nc=1

"The League also noted that comments in the proceeding so far have
been silent on the interference susceptibility of BPL to ham radio
signal ingress. The League predicted that even as little as 250 mW of
signal induced into overhead power lines some 100 feet from an amateur
antenna could degrade a BPL system or render it inoperative."

I realize that this is not the statement about actual tests run by the
BPL people which you'd like to see, they haven't published *any* test
results at all, but the League technical guys are pretty sharp and I
doubt they'd make a statement like this if that didn't have a good
basis for making it.



Thanks. I do think interference is going to be a real problem for BPL
performance, but ham radio interference will be a very small part of that.
I suspect household devices will be far more significant.

I have an air purifier that spews RF all over the tropical bands. I have
to turn it off to get Peru or whatever. And then there's flourescent
light ballasts. Think of BPL as flourescent lights times a zillion.

"Gray Shockley" wrote in message
...
Do you mean in place of CB, using CB freqs or ????

Thanks,

That would be great.. it's not like the band is being used for it's intended
purpose anyway. Besides, a good portion of the "traffic" on the 11m band is
music and sound effects anyway.. LOL.

Just think, maybe you could get some people on there actually TRYING to get
decent sounding audio on their stations so that their music programming
could be more listenable. I could do it in a heartbeat, but most CB types
only know how to blast hundreds of filthy watts out and splatter 12 channels
each way...

In rec.radio.amateur.policy CW wrote:
I think there is a big panic about something that will probably be a minor
annoyance to some. Not a problem to most. Do people seriously think that
airports are just going to cease communicating with their planes? How about

That is done on VHF, not on HF, AFAIK

the military HF network. I can see them now. Sitting around the pentagon
saying "forget national security, people have to get their email". Think
about it.

BPL chipsets can keep some frequency ranges free from QRM. Somebody in
the german ham newsgroup has looked at it with a spectrum analyzer
or whatever.

And I think military users could change to VHF or UHF, even sat
communications anyway if they wanted. They could also keep BPL
out of special areas. I doubt military users in suburban environments
give a damn about HF.

BPL *is* a real threat.

/ralph

"Gray Shockley" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:17:45 -0500, Frank Dresser wrote
(in message
):

How's the 11 meter SW band for the hobby broadcasters? The
international broadcasters have pretty much abandonded it, the antennas
should be easy to work with and line of sight will work even when the
ionosphere doesn't.

Frank Dresser


Do you mean in place of CB, using CB freqs or ????

Thanks,



Gray Shockley


25.6 to 26.1 Mhz, just below the Citizen's Band. It's already set aside as
a SW broadcast band, although the broadcasters rarely use it.

Frank Dresser

And if you decided o realocate the band, they would continue to use it
making it just as useless as it is today. In any case, it is not all crap.
If you get out on the road, you will find that truckers are still using it
for its intended purpose.
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Gray Shockley" wrote in message
...
Do you mean in place of CB, using CB freqs or ????

Thanks,

That would be great.. it's not like the band is being used for it's
intended
purpose anyway. Besides, a good portion of the "traffic" on the 11m band
is
music and sound effects anyway.. LOL.

Just think, maybe you could get some people on there actually TRYING to
get
decent sounding audio on their stations so that their music programming
could be more listenable. I could do it in a heartbeat, but most CB types
only know how to blast hundreds of filthy watts out and splatter 12
channels
each way...

"CW" wrote in message
news:8543b.274761$YN5.187296@sccrnsc01...
The freebanders use it all the time and they wouldn't stop.


I haven't heard the freebanders there, but I was hearing about half a dozen
of the 26 Mhz link transmitters, back about three years ago. I'm not
disputing what you're saying, but I think the bulk of the freebanders
transmit up a bit higher.

Anyway, the reason the freebanders can transmit without any restrictions is
not because there are no rules, but because they're aren't enough people who
will go to the effort to enforce them. Freebanders don't bother me, so I
guess I'm one of those who don't care, as well.

But I'd like to see some people move into SW radio's abandonded property.
Sure, they may have a different idea of fun than some of the current
residents, but if they keep the place up, who'd care? Especially if they're
entertaining sorts of people who have plenty of loyal friends incase a real
threat turns up someday. And the squatters just might move out or go legit.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser