Right, well, to jump in with some commentary now, it is a rather dismal
state of affairs...how the market for portable shortwaves has been
inundated with these cheap Chinese portables. All the Kchibos, Kaitos,
jWins, whatever other uninspiring offerings are out there...

A real race for the bottom. Nowadays, it seems that competition among
new offerings in this class of radio is, unfortunately, mostly on the
basis of price, rather than quality/features. Amazing (perhaps not)
that there are buyers for these substandard radios, many of which must
have been designed for the domestic market in China, given their
substandard performance and atrocious appearance.

Perhaps one or two of the Degens are marginally acceptable...I dunno.
I do ideed miss the days not too long back when there was a relatively
vibrant competition between Sony, Grundig, and Sangean (even Panasonic
and Magnavox were in the mix)...and you could expect regular upgrades
in your favorite line of radio...with true improvements in
performance/features. The day the Sony ICF-SW7600GR is discontinued
will indeed be a sad day...

junius


wrote:
How many radios are actually manufactured in Amrtica now,two or three?
How long will that last? I suppose most of the parts are made in other
countries.I believe that is something to be concerned about.China will
be selling Chinese manufactured cars and vans in U.S.A.in a year or two
at about thirty to forty percent less price than similar American
manufactured vehicles,thanks to Malcom Bricklin.
cuhulin

I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.

Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.

junius

junius wrote:
I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.

Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.

The 800 was overhyped vaporware for a very long time. When it was
finally delivered the quality was poor especially considering the
price. Given the multiple failed deliveries I would fault Grundig/Eton
as much as the manufacturer. They appear to be little more than a
marketing and distribution company.

And yet the QC on more modestly priced radios like the Degen DE1103 and
several of it's stablemates is quite good in my experience, as is the
Tecsun PL500.

junius wrote:
Right, well, to jump in with some commentary now, it is a rather dismal
state of affairs...how the market for portable shortwaves has been
inundated with these cheap Chinese portables. All the Kchibos, Kaitos,
jWins, whatever other uninspiring offerings are out there...

A real race for the bottom. Nowadays, it seems that competition among
new offerings in this class of radio is, unfortunately, mostly on the
basis of price, rather than quality/features. Amazing (perhaps not)
that there are buyers for these substandard radios, many of which must
have been designed for the domestic market in China, given their
substandard performance and atrocious appearance.

Perhaps one or two of the Degens are marginally acceptable...I dunno.
I do ideed miss the days not too long back when there was a relatively
vibrant competition between Sony, Grundig, and Sangean (even Panasonic
and Magnavox were in the mix)...and you could expect regular upgrades
in your favorite line of radio...with true improvements in
performance/features. The day the Sony ICF-SW7600GR is discontinued
will indeed be a sad day...

The problem isn't a lack of supply of good radios. The problem is that
there is little demand for pricey shortwave radios because there are
few serious shortwave hobbyists. The lack of demand caused Grundig
(the real one), Panasonic, Sony, Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom to stop supplying
the really interesting radios that we all enjoy.

Unfortunately the Sony 7600 is probably going to be cancelled in the
near future.

John S. wrote:
junius wrote:
I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.
Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.

The 800 was overhyped vaporware for a very long time. When it was
finally delivered the quality was poor especially considering the
price. Given the multiple failed deliveries I would fault Grundig/Eton
as much as the manufacturer. They appear to be little more than a
marketing and distribution company.
'


Grundig AG is neither involved with, nor do they acknowledge the 800.
And the Grundig to which you refer is actually Lextronix. Lextronix
bought the right to use the Grundig name in North America, later calling
themselves Grundig of North America, and Grundig USA, before being
acquired by Eton. It was Lextronix which commissioned the creation of
the 800.

And you are correct, they are a marketing and distribution company.
Lex was the North American distributor for products of Grundig AG.

Bangalore is in India.There is an article at (or there was this
morning) www.worldtribune.com about the economy of Bangalore,I
don't know if that has anything to do with Eton though.Also,earlier
today I did a www.devilfinder.com for,Shortwave Radio
Manufacturers around the World

There was a website there about some shortwave radio manufacturers
going/gone out of business.
cuhulin

D Peter Maus wrote:
John S. wrote:
junius wrote:
I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.
Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.

The 800 was overhyped vaporware for a very long time. When it was
finally delivered the quality was poor especially considering the
price. Given the multiple failed deliveries I would fault Grundig/Eton
as much as the manufacturer. They appear to be little more than a
marketing and distribution company.
'


Grundig AG is neither involved with, nor do they acknowledge the 800.

That's certainly convenient for Grundig AG. They sold the rights to
the Grundig name in a geographical area but refuse to acknowlege the
cheap radios the distributor puts the name on.

And the Grundig to which you refer is actually Lextronix. Lextronix
bought the right to use the Grundig name in North America, later calling
themselves Grundig of North America, and Grundig USA, before being
acquired by Eton. It was Lextronix which commissioned the creation of
the 800.

And you are correct, they are a marketing and distribution company.
Lex was the North American distributor for products of Grundig AG.

John S. wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
John S. wrote:
junius wrote:
I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.
Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.
The 800 was overhyped vaporware for a very long time. When it was
finally delivered the quality was poor especially considering the
price. Given the multiple failed deliveries I would fault Grundig/Eton
as much as the manufacturer. They appear to be little more than a
marketing and distribution company.
'


Grundig AG is neither involved with, nor do they acknowledge the 800.

That's certainly convenient for Grundig AG. They sold the rights to
the Grundig name in a geographical area but refuse to acknowlege the
cheap radios the distributor puts the name on.


The reason they do not acknowledge the 800 is precisely because of
the poor quality. It's also the reason they did not let Lex market it as
a Grundig outside of North America. It was, according to one Grundig AG
designer I corresponded with, who was on the original German Satellit
team, "an embarrassment."

Lex also tried to slide it past EU regulations by declaring it CE
compliant, which is required for European marketing. They even had CE
stamped into the case. They did not submit Sat 800 for CE evaluation,
however, and the CE had to be removed from existing castings, and
remaining cases recast. As a counter move, Lex bought and distributed a
number of CE compliant power supplies with 800 models. Some 800's made
it overseas. None through legitimate channels.



And the Grundig to which you refer is actually Lextronix. Lextronix
bought the right to use the Grundig name in North America, later calling
themselves Grundig of North America, and Grundig USA, before being
acquired by Eton. It was Lextronix which commissioned the creation of
the 800.

And you are correct, they are a marketing and distribution company.
Lex was the North American distributor for products of Grundig AG.

D Peter Maus wrote:
John S. wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
John S. wrote:
junius wrote:
I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.
Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.
The 800 was overhyped vaporware for a very long time. When it was
finally delivered the quality was poor especially considering the
price. Given the multiple failed deliveries I would fault Grundig/Eton
as much as the manufacturer. They appear to be little more than a
marketing and distribution company.
'


Grundig AG is neither involved with, nor do they acknowledge the 800.

That's certainly convenient for Grundig AG. They sold the rights to
the Grundig name in a geographical area but refuse to acknowlege the
cheap radios the distributor puts the name on.


The reason they do not acknowledge the 800 is precisely because of
the poor quality. It's also the reason they did not let Lex market it as
a Grundig outside of North America. It was, according to one Grundig AG
designer I corresponded with, who was on the original German Satellit
team, "an embarrassment."

Lex also tried to slide it past EU regulations by declaring it CE
compliant, which is required for European marketing. They even had CE
stamped into the case. They did not submit Sat 800 for CE evaluation,
however, and the CE had to be removed from existing castings, and
remaining cases recast. As a counter move, Lex bought and distributed a
number of CE compliant power supplies with 800 models. Some 800's made
it overseas. None through legitimate channels.



And the Grundig to which you refer is actually Lextronix. Lextronix
bought the right to use the Grundig name in North America, later calling
themselves Grundig of North America, and Grundig USA, before being
acquired by Eton. It was Lextronix which commissioned the creation of
the 800.

And you are correct, they are a marketing and distribution company.
Lex was the North American distributor for products of Grundig AG.


I'm really amazed that Grundig AG so completely squandered the value of
that brand name in noth america. It was apparently sold with few
restrictions on it's use. I can only guess that the german Grundig was
hurting for cash at the time.

John S. wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
John S. wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
John S. wrote:
junius wrote:
I don't know who actually designed the Eton E1 - it could have been
Tecsun or Degen I suppose. I believe that Tecsun is part of Degen and
that the Eton radios come from one or more of their factories. Whether
Degen/Tecsun farms out production to another company in India probably
isn't as important as the original design and quality control applied
during production.
Right, well, quality control was at the heart of my "better Bharat than
Tecsun" comment. I don't think we need to go into Tecsun's problems in
producing a quality Satellit 800. That went on for years...with
constant threads in this forum on whether or not the 4th or 5th
generation of the '800 had finally "worked out all the kinks", etc. It
became quite meaningless in the end. I wouldn't want to be the guy
looking to buy a used Satellit 800, that's for certain.

It's encouraging that with the manufacture of the E1, there seems to
be, from what is coming out so far, consistently decent quality control
applied.
The 800 was overhyped vaporware for a very long time. When it was
finally delivered the quality was poor especially considering the
price. Given the multiple failed deliveries I would fault Grundig/Eton
as much as the manufacturer. They appear to be little more than a
marketing and distribution company.
'


Grundig AG is neither involved with, nor do they acknowledge the 800.
That's certainly convenient for Grundig AG. They sold the rights to
the Grundig name in a geographical area but refuse to acknowlege the
cheap radios the distributor puts the name on.

The reason they do not acknowledge the 800 is precisely because of
the poor quality. It's also the reason they did not let Lex market it as
a Grundig outside of North America. It was, according to one Grundig AG
designer I corresponded with, who was on the original German Satellit
team, "an embarrassment."

Lex also tried to slide it past EU regulations by declaring it CE
compliant, which is required for European marketing. They even had CE
stamped into the case. They did not submit Sat 800 for CE evaluation,
however, and the CE had to be removed from existing castings, and
remaining cases recast. As a counter move, Lex bought and distributed a
number of CE compliant power supplies with 800 models. Some 800's made
it overseas. None through legitimate channels.



And the Grundig to which you refer is actually Lextronix. Lextronix
bought the right to use the Grundig name in North America, later calling
themselves Grundig of North America, and Grundig USA, before being
acquired by Eton. It was Lextronix which commissioned the creation of
the 800.

And you are correct, they are a marketing and distribution company.
Lex was the North American distributor for products of Grundig AG.

I'm really amazed that Grundig AG so completely squandered the value of
that brand name in noth america. It was apparently sold with few
restrictions on it's use. I can only guess that the german Grundig was
hurting for cash at the time.



The move surprised a lot of people. But then, the relationship
between Grundig AG and Lex had been very good, and very profitable for
years. So Grundig had no reason to think that such a natural evolution
would turn so far south. But Lex is a marketing company. And without a
product line of their own, it had to be fairly clear that a third party
product bearing the Grundig name wasn't going to be the equivalent of
Grundig AG quality. Grundig AG may have been building offshore
themselves, but design was their own and QC was carefully monitored. A
third party would not have the same interests, nor the same focus.
Products would be different. And it would be tough to compete with
Grundig's reputation for Quality.

The use of the name was not unrestricted. But you know how corporate
contracts can be interpreted. Every specification creates another
loophole. And Lex, seeing cash at hand, exploited as many of them as
they could.

And yes, Grundig was hurting at the time. Fresh off their screwing by
Philips, they needed the cash to rebuild. Licensing the name on a line
of products in the lucrative US market, where Grundig AG has never had a
profound presence, would have to look like free money. And to be fair,
Lex turned out a line of products that were marketed to both the Grundig
aware, and those to whom the name was not a household word. And Lex'
marketing was non pareil. They created demand in both the nostalgia and
the non SW markets for a line of retro radios marketed as 'updates' of
Grundig classics.

But the claims went beyone misleading. They even went so far as to
claim they had found and hired the original designers and craftsmen, in
their camera-ready ads, to faithfully recreate the hardwood cases of
their retro products. This, despite the fact that their biggest retro
product, the Classic 960 wasn't wood, but bakelite or catalin. With
brass insert trim, not gold paint.

The electronics wern't any better. I ordered a Classic 960 and found
the quality to be so bad, I returned it at once. Dial calibration was
off by more than a megahertz. It drifted. The dial backlash was almost
half a channel's width. They sent me a new one. The replacement was
worse than the first, and the second replacement was worse than the
first replacement. Build quality was criminal.

I"m not the only one who noticed this.

Not exactly the result Grundig AG had hoped for from this arrangement.


Grundig is currently under recovery in Germany. And a new product
line is hitting the world market. Some significant innovations, too.

But the name, in the US, at least, has been tainted. And isn't likely
to be revived soon.