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#261
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote: One of the things that help us in the determination of cosmological age, and all scientific endeavors is that most things end up fitting together pretty well. Atomic decay tends to mesh together with determination of the age of artifacts. It proved itself on items of known age. The concept simply works. That's just one example. Actually, there is an unexplained time drift between atomic decay and Bristle Cone Pine rings that can be explained if seconds are getting shorter. You do know that the length of Days has changed and continues to change? I sat through a wonderful presentation by a scientist on the changing length of days that he thinks is possible to prove through "microgrowth rings" in fossils. You need very well preserved fossils to look at this, and he presented some pretty compelling evidence, but stopped short of saying "this is how it is" Scientists - go figure! ;^) That isn't religion, it fits in with what we do know about physics. And of course, that is in the present space-time. But using a localized present space-time standard to obtain an absolute value for something that existed far outside of that present localized space-time just doesn't "fit". For all we know, the first half of the existence of the universe consumed all of one second of space-time as it existed way back then. I would never present anything as absolute. What is the length of time that it takes for one entangled particle to have an affect the other when they are a million miles apart? Darn good question, Cecil. Doesn't seem like there should be any, but apparently if we know about one, the other is affected too. - 73 de mike KB3EIA - |
#262
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Jim Kelley wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote: Actually, there is an unexplained time drift between atomic decay and Bristle Cone Pine rings that can be explained if seconds are getting shorter. Assuming the time it takes for the Earth to orbit around the Sun is an absolute, of course. ;-) Which of course, it isn't. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - |
#263
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Dave wrote: Jim Kelley wrote: Cecil Moore wrote: Actually, there is an unexplained time drift between atomic decay and Bristle Cone Pine rings that can be explained if seconds are getting shorter. Assuming the time it takes for the Earth to orbit around the Sun is an absolute, of course. ;-) 73 de jk The only thing in Physics that is absolute is: "Nothing is absolute!" True, but we shouldn't go so far as to infer that 1 Hz might sometimes have more or less than one cycle in a second - no matter how much different each second might be from the next. 73, ac6xg |
#264
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Jim Kelley wrote:
True, but we shouldn't go so far as to infer that 1 Hz might sometimes have more or less than one cycle in a second - no matter how much different each second might be from the next. We often infer that a frequency has lessened due to the red shift which could certainly be a shortening of a second from the time the light was generated until now. -- 73, Cecil, http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp |
#265
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Michael Coslo wrote: Jim Kelley wrote: Cecil Moore wrote: Actually, there is an unexplained time drift between atomic decay and Bristle Cone Pine rings that can be explained if seconds are getting shorter. Assuming the time it takes for the Earth to orbit around the Sun is an absolute, of course. ;-) Which of course, it isn't. - 73 de Mike KB3EIA - Right. Seemed logical to me to deduce that the number of seconds in a year might have changed, but to infer from that that the length of the second has changed seems like quite a leap to me. Given the number of perturbations in the system, it's more likely the length of our path around the Sun has changed slightly over time. But hey, I'm no biologist. jk |
#266
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote:
We often infer that a frequency has lessened due to the red shift which could certainly be a shortening of a second from the time the light was generated until now. The phenomenon of red shift is readily observable - that's how it was discovered. Line spectra from known elements is observed to be shifted in wavelength down from where it appears in the rest frame. The cause could be doppler shifting due to relative motion, or some other reason. If the length of the second were different, then so would be the speed of light as well as the constant of proportionality between frequency and wavelength at the source. In fact all kinds of physics would have to be different. There is certainly a probability for either case. Whether the probabilities are of the same magnitude is debatable. 73 de ac6xg |
#267
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Jim Kelley wrote:
If the length of the second were different, then so would be the speed of light ... To see why that is false, refer to Lorentz's transformation for time at a velocity near the speed of light. Time can vary all over the universe while the speed of light remains constant (at least by definition :-). Since time is one dimension for the speed of light, the problem is self-correcting. If tomorrow's second were 1/2 half of today's second, nobody would even notice. If someone used a cesium clock near a black hole to come up with a "standard" second, it would be nowhere near the same length of time as a cesium clock on Earth. Time passes very slowly near the event horizon of a black hole but light keeps on trucking at the speed of light. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
#268
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote: Jim Kelley wrote: If the length of the second were different, then so would be the speed of light ... To see why that is false, refer to Lorentz's transformation for time at a velocity near the speed of light. Time can vary all over the universe while the speed of light remains constant (at least by definition :-). Since time is one dimension for the speed of light, the problem is self-correcting. If the second were "smaller", then light could obviously no longer travel 3x10^8 of our meters in one of them. Try not to lose track of the reference frame, Cecil. (Remember, it's the one in which the red shift is being measured). 73, jk |
#269
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Cecil Moore wrote:
If someone used a cesium clock near a black hole to come up with a "standard" second, it would be nowhere near the same length of time as a cesium clock on Earth. Time passes very slowly near the event horizon of a black hole but light keeps on trucking at the speed of light. Jim Don't bother. Cecil has his own, very special, form of Relativity. tom K0TAR |
#270
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Thread gone astray was Antennas led astray
Jim Kelley wrote:
If the second were "smaller", then light could obviously no longer travel 3x10^8 of our meters in one of them. It is the frequency that is red-shifted, not the velocity. A shorter second results in a lower frequency. Relativity won't allow the velocity of light to change but everything else changes including meters and seconds. -- 73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com |
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