" Using such a pulse pattern makes the echo, which arrives back from the
moon 2.4 seconds later". From: http://www.rense.com/general79/haarp.htm

"During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the
radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz"

I do not know the distance to Moon on that days but for the mean distance
384 000 km the speed is:

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

"Szczepan Bialek" ha scritto nel messaggio
...

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

No. Maybe I don't understand the complex calculation under your quoted
division by 2.4, but....

Your "mean distance" have to be doubled: received *back* in 2,4 sec mean
that the signal traveled the double distance.
At minimum distance the moon is 356375 km far from earth. 356375*2 is 712750
km, that at light speed means a travel time of 2,37 sec.

Any greatest distance agree with classical physics laws, and a normal mind
don't care if the light travel faster, maybe care about the distance of the
moon at the time of test: exactly 360000 km from the earth.

Don't you ?

-.-. --.-, Italy. (sorry for my poor english).

On Mar 7, 8:17*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
" Using such a pulse pattern makes the echo, which arrives back from the
moon 2.4 seconds later". From:http://www.rense.com/general79/haarp.htm

"During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the
radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz"

I do not know the distance to Moon on that days but for the mean distance
384 000 km the speed is:

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

i'm glad you checked their calculation and found that obvious error...
i guess all the other radar calibrations in the world have to be
changed to account for the bialek speed effect... i wonder if that
would get you out of a radar gun speeding ticket?

U¿ytkownik "-.-. --.-" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...

"Szczepan Bialek" ha scritto nel messaggio
...

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

No. Maybe I don't understand the complex calculation under your quoted
division by 2.4, but....

You understand. Should be: 2x384 000 = 320 000.

Your "mean distance" have to be doubled: received *back* in 2,4 sec mean
that the signal traveled the double distance.
At minimum distance the moon is 356375 km far from earth. 356375*2 is
712750 km, that at light speed means a travel time of 2,37 sec.

The test was made at "full Moon". ""Even though lunar echoes have been
detected before at higher frequencies, it was really exciting to see them
arrive in real time out under the full moon in the New Mexico desert,"

I do not know the distance. But some radio amateur practice communication
via Moon. Have they own observations?


Any greatest distance agree with classical physics laws, and a normal mind
don't care if the light travel faster, maybe care about the distance of
the moon at the time of test: exactly 360000 km from the earth.

Now are transmitters on the Mars. They are able to give the answer for
Maxwell. He wrote:
" " Incidentally, Maxwell once suggested that Roemer's
method could be used to test for the isotropy of light speed, i.e., to test
whether the speed of light is the same in all directions. Roemer's method
can be regarded as a means of measuring the speed of light in the direction
from Jupiter to the Earth. Jupiter has an orbital period of about 12 years,
so if we use Roemer's method to evaluate the speed of light several times
over a 12 year period, we will be evaluating the speed in all possible
directions (in the plane of the ecliptic). " From:
http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath203/kmath203.htm

As you see Maxwell care if the light travel everywhere with the same speed.

The same is with the wave lenght. Longer water waves travel faster. Is it
the same with radio waves?
S*

Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Mar 7, 8:17 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
" Using such a pulse pattern makes the echo, which arrives back from the
moon 2.4 seconds later". From:http://www.rense.com/general79/haarp.htm

"During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the
radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz"

I do not know the distance to Moon on that days but for the mean distance
384 000 km the speed is:

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Should be 2x384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

i'm glad you checked their calculation and found that obvious error...
i guess all the other radar calibrations in the world have to be
changed to account for the bialek speed effect... i wonder if that
would get you out of a radar gun speeding ticket?

Did you communications via Moon?
S*

On Mar 7, 5:22*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
U ytkownik "-.-. --.-" napisa w wiadomo ...



"Szczepan Bialek" ha scritto nel messaggio
.. .

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

No. Maybe I don't understand the complex calculation under your quoted
division by 2.4, but....

You understand. Should be: 2x384 000 = 320 000.



Your "mean distance" have to be doubled: received *back* in 2,4 sec mean
that the signal traveled the double distance.
At minimum distance the moon is 356375 km far from earth. 356375*2 is
712750 km, that at light speed means a travel time of 2,37 sec.

The test was made at "full Moon". ""Even though lunar echoes have been
detected before at higher frequencies, it was really exciting to see them
arrive in real time out under the full moon in the New Mexico desert,"

I do not know the distance. But some radio amateur practice communication
via Moon. Have they own observations?



Any greatest distance agree with classical physics laws, and a normal mind
don't care *if the light travel faster, maybe care about the distance of
the moon at the time of test: exactly 360000 km from the earth.

Now are transmitters on the Mars. They are able to give the answer forMaxwell. He wrote:

" " Incidentally, Maxwell once suggested that Roemer's
method could be used to test for the isotropy of light speed, i.e., to test
whether the speed of light is the same in all directions. Roemer's method
can be regarded as a means of measuring the speed of light in the direction
from Jupiter to the Earth. Jupiter has an orbital period of about 12 years,
so if we use Roemer's method to evaluate the speed of light several times
over a 12 year period, we will be evaluating the speed in all possible
directions (in the plane of the ecliptic). " From:http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath203/kmath203.htm

As you see Maxwell care if the light travel everywhere with the same speed.

The same is with the wave lenght. Longer water waves travel faster. Is it
the same with radio waves?
S*

no

On Mar 7, 5:27*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w ...
On Mar 7, 8:17 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

" Using such a pulse pattern makes the echo, which arrives back from the
moon 2.4 seconds later". From:http://www.rense.com/general79/haarp.htm

"During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the
radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz"

I do not know the distance to Moon on that days but for the mean distance
384 000 km the speed is:

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Should be 2x384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.



Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

i'm glad you checked their calculation and found that obvious error...
i guess all the other radar calibrations in the world have to be
changed to account for the bialek speed effect... i wonder if that
would get you out of a radar gun speeding ticket?

Did you communications via Moon?
S*

do you?

On 3/7/2011 11:27 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Mar 7, 8:17 am, "Szczepan wrote:
" Using such a pulse pattern makes the echo, which arrives back from the
moon 2.4 seconds later". From:http://www.rense.com/general79/haarp.htm

"During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the
radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz"

I do not know the distance to Moon on that days but for the mean distance
384 000 km the speed is:

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Should be 2x384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*

i'm glad you checked their calculation and found that obvious error...
i guess all the other radar calibrations in the world have to be
changed to account for the bialek speed effect... i wonder if that
would get you out of a radar gun speeding ticket?

Did you communications via Moon?
S*



I have, at another amateur's station, on 432 MHz. Surprisingly the
speed came out almost dead on 300m/microsecond. Used .wav file
recording of transmit and echo and a good sound file editor with
sub-millisecond resolution when zoomed.

tom
K0TAR

tom wrote:


I have, at another amateur's station, on 432 MHz. Surprisingly the
speed came out almost dead on 300m/microsecond. Used .wav file
recording of transmit and echo and a good sound file editor with
sub-millisecond resolution when zoomed.


Surprisingly?

You were thinking that propagation might be at some other rate?

the dominant error source in your measurement is probably the sound
card's clock.

For other fun measurements of em propagation speed.. melting the mode
pattern of a microwave oven cooking chamber at 2450 MHz into a single
layer of marshmallows on a plate (turning off the rotating turntable and
mode-stirrer, of course). Chocolate morsels might also work.


Other methods, for visible light, include the spinning toothed wheels of
Fizeau and rotating multifacet prisms of Foucault (later updated by
Michelson)

Interference fringes from a laser, as well.

if one is looking for more "radio" than "light".. look at the doppler
effect from a moving source. The fractional change in frequency is
equal to the velocity/propagation velocity.

If you do something like measure the frequency from, oh, an orbiting
satellite and get the whole "doppler curve" you can figure out the
frequency of the oscillator (it's the frequency at which the second
derivative of measured frequency goes through zero). You can measure
the velocity of the satellite optically (if you pick a satellite which
is visible, like ISS)

On 3/7/2011 2:17 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
" Using such a pulse pattern makes the echo, which arrives back from the
moon 2.4 seconds later". From: http://www.rense.com/general79/haarp.htm

"During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the
radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz"

I do not know the distance to Moon on that days but for the mean distance
384 000 km the speed is:

384 000/2.4 = 320 000 km/s.

Speed of light is 300 000.

But long waves travel quicker in glass. Would be the same in space?
S*




There is no space. It is packed with compressed aether.

John