On 10/14/2012 5:04 PM, gipy wrote:
I am using a long wire in the trees coming straight to my tuner but I need to route the feed line underground to keep it stealth and I can't seem to find any articles on this topic.
My question...
I would like to use insulated wire or does it have to be coax only and would I lose performance?
Someone told this type of antenna would act as a lighting rod and would be dangerous.
My other question...
Why would it be more dangerous than any other antenna when most receivers and transceivers are grounded in some way?
Thanks in advance


Well you cannot bury open wire and expect any results. What frequency
are you operating on? Are you transmitting? I think your best bet at
this point is to bury coax and feed a dipole antenna if you are
transmitting. Random wire antennas perform even worse than G5RVs. They
are about the worst.

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:19:15 PM UTC-4, Boomer wrote:
On 10/14/2012 5:04 PM, gipy wrote:

I am using a long wire in the trees coming straight to my tuner but I need to route the feed line underground to keep it stealth and I can't seem to find any articles on this topic.

My question...

I would like to use insulated wire or does it have to be coax only and would I lose performance?

Someone told this type of antenna would act as a lighting rod and would be dangerous.

My other question...

Why would it be more dangerous than any other antenna when most receivers and transceivers are grounded in some way?

Thanks in advance





Well you cannot bury open wire and expect any results. What frequency

are you operating on? Are you transmitting? I think your best bet at

this point is to bury coax and feed a dipole antenna if you are

transmitting. Random wire antennas perform even worse than G5RVs. They

are about the worst.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement, I have used a g5rv in the past and I have had great success throughout the years with a random wires, end-feds, long-wires etc. The trick is to have a good ground when using a random wire.

Im in a situation where I need to bury the feed-line to a random wire (end-fed type) antenna and Im looking for the best way of doing this.

On 10/14/2012 6:02 PM, gipy wrote:
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:19:15 PM UTC-4, Boomer wrote:
Well you cannot bury open wire and expect any results. What frequency

are you operating on? Are you transmitting? I think your best bet at

this point is to bury coax and feed a dipole antenna if you are

transmitting. Random wire antennas perform even worse than G5RVs. They

are about the worst.

I'm not sure I agree with that statement, I have used a g5rv in the past and I have had great success throughout the years with a random wires, end-feds, long-wires etc. The trick is to have a good ground when using a random wire.

Im in a situation where I need to bury the feed-line to a random wire (end-fed type) antenna and Im looking for the best way of doing this.

If you came here for advice why are you arguing with the first person
that responded?

Just go ahead and do what you (mistakenly) think is true just because it
seemed to work OK.

And it's "I'M" not "Im". At least learn the language you speak.

tom
K0TAR

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:55:14 PM UTC-4, tom wrote:
On 10/14/2012 6:02 PM, gipy wrote:

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 6:19:15 PM UTC-4, Boomer wrote:

Well you cannot bury open wire and expect any results. What frequency



are you operating on? Are you transmitting? I think your best bet at



this point is to bury coax and feed a dipole antenna if you are



transmitting. Random wire antennas perform even worse than G5RVs. They



are about the worst.



I'm not sure I agree with that statement, I have used a g5rv in the past and I have had great success throughout the years with a random wires, end-feds, long-wires etc. The trick is to have a good ground when using a random wire.



Im in a situation where I need to bury the feed-line to a random wire (end-fed type) antenna and Im looking for the best way of doing this.



If you came here for advice why are you arguing with the first person

that responded?



Just go ahead and do what you (mistakenly) think is true just because it

seemed to work OK.



And it's "I'M" not "Im". At least learn the language you speak.



tom

K0TAR

Wow, a newsgroup cop and an English teacher!

BTW it's I'm and not I'M, but I won't tell you to learn the language you write.

I very much respect and appreciate the "first person's" opinion and my apologies to him for not expressing that before but it is just that, an opinion, just like mine. I did not think a difference of opinion could be called an argument.

My disagreement "not argument" really had little to do with my question about burying the feed-line, not which antenna works best.

I am pretty sure by now this thread has gone south thanks to your watchful eye on correctness, sensitivity and diplomacy on this group but anyway,
I would still like to hear from anyone with some advice on burying a feed-line.

On 10/14/2012 7:48 PM, gipy wrote:
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:55:14 PM UTC-4, tom wrote:
On 10/14/2012 6:02 PM, gipy wrote:

Wow, a newsgroup cop and an English teacher!

BTW it's I'm and not I'M, but I won't tell you to learn the language you write.

I very much respect and appreciate the "first person's" opinion and my apologies to him for not expressing that before but it is just that, an opinion, just like mine. I did not think a difference of opinion could be called an argument.

My disagreement "not argument" really had little to do with my question about burying the feed-line, not which antenna works best.

I am pretty sure by now this thread has gone south thanks to your watchful eye on correctness, sensitivity and diplomacy on this group but anyway,
I would still like to hear from anyone with some advice on burying a feed-line.


No. not a newsgroup cop, just wondering why the first response to you
was disputed. And I held the cap key down too long. It happens.

He's pretty much on the nose though in his comments. If you can make a
G5RV or random work, it's mostly luck. Yes, with end fed proper
grounding helps a lot, but it's still a crap shoot.

tom
K0TAR

In message , tom
writes
On 10/14/2012 7:48 PM, gipy wrote:
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:55:14 PM UTC-4, tom wrote:
On 10/14/2012 6:02 PM, gipy wrote:

Wow, a newsgroup cop and an English teacher!

BTW it's I'm and not I'M, but I won't tell you to learn the language
you write.

I very much respect and appreciate the "first person's" opinion and
my apologies to him for not expressing that before but it is just
that, an opinion, just like mine. I did not think a difference of
opinion could be called an argument.

My disagreement "not argument" really had little to do with my
question about burying the feed-line, not which antenna works best.

I am pretty sure by now this thread has gone south thanks to your
watchful eye on correctness, sensitivity and diplomacy on this group
but anyway,
I would still like to hear from anyone with some advice on burying a
feed-line.


No. not a newsgroup cop, just wondering why the first response to you
was disputed. And I held the cap key down too long. It happens.

He's pretty much on the nose though in his comments. If you can make a
G5RV or random work, it's mostly luck. Yes, with end fed proper
grounding helps a lot, but it's still a crap shoot.

Getting a G5RV or a 'random' wire to work isn't 'mostly luck'. It's more
a question of simply knowing what you're doing.
--
Ian

On 10/14/2012 8:16 PM, tom wrote:
On 10/14/2012 7:48 PM, gipy wrote:
On Sunday, October 14, 2012 7:55:14 PM UTC-4, tom wrote:
On 10/14/2012 6:02 PM, gipy wrote:

Wow, a newsgroup cop and an English teacher!

BTW it's I'm and not I'M, but I won't tell you to learn the language
you write.

I very much respect and appreciate the "first person's" opinion and my
apologies to him for not expressing that before but it is just that,
an opinion, just like mine. I did not think a difference of opinion
could be called an argument.

My disagreement "not argument" really had little to do with my
question about burying the feed-line, not which antenna works best.

I am pretty sure by now this thread has gone south thanks to your
watchful eye on correctness, sensitivity and diplomacy on this group
but anyway,
I would still like to hear from anyone with some advice on burying a
feed-line.


No. not a newsgroup cop, just wondering why the first response to you
was disputed. And I held the cap key down too long. It happens.

He's pretty much on the nose though in his comments. If you can make a
G5RV or random work, it's mostly luck. Yes, with end fed proper
grounding helps a lot, but it's still a crap shoot.

tom
K0TAR
Hi tom,

I have been a ham since 1955. I have experience trying different types
of antennas. At one point (10 years) I designed antenna installations
for Raytheon Co.

Those who have not compared their random wire or G5RV to a good antenna
figure it is working just fine.

I can say that I know that if you want a dipole to work on multiple
bands, it needs to be a full 1/2 wavelength on the band you want it to
work on. Feeding it with open wire and a tuner will allow some decent
performance on bands that are higher in frequency. I am guessing Tom
that you already know this.

My favourite antenna for living in the city on a lot surrounded by homes
and industry is the horizontal loop fed with open wire. This does a
great job of nulling horizontal noise from the town.

Many hams just look at the 102 foot spec for a G5RV and works all bands
and say great. If they can talk to anyone they figure it must be
perfect. It is not actually a bad antenna on 20 meters. However, the
performance on 75 is abysmal. I work 75 most of the time and when I hear
a new guy come on in our area with a weak signal we all figure the guy
is running a G5RV. This is usually the case. We always nudge him in the
direction of putting up a decent antenna.

The only time a random wire makes any sense is aboard ship or boats. If
you can make a solid connection to the sea water you have a decent
antenna. BTW a decent connection on a non steel or aluminum vessel is 30
square feet of copper plate on the outside of the hull.

It is hardly worth my time to talk with anyone who already figures he
knows all about antennas because he has used a G5RV and it works fine.
We need to reserve our comments about what really works for those who
are actually interested in improving their station operation and have
not taken the attitude that they are already experts. :-)

There is a guy here my age who has experimented with antennas much more
than have I. He nudged me into changing my 450 plastic dialectrict
balanced line to my loop to an open wire. I did not expect much
difference. I was shocked at the improvement. He is our resident expert
in the "North Woods". This is the Michigan upper peninsula, Northern
Wisconsin, and Minnesota. He is not an expert on antenna theory or math,
but damn sure knows what works best. I wish I had changed my feed line
three years ago when he told me to do so.

Michael

On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:59:37 PM UTC-5, Boomer wrote:
(A G5RV) is not actually a bad antenna on 20 meters. However, the
performance on 75 is abysmal.

Would you please itemize the losses and radiation patterns that explain why you believe that to be true for 75m?
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

On 10/15/2012 2:59 PM, Boomer wrote:

There is a guy here my age who has experimented with antennas much more
than have I. He nudged me into changing my 450 plastic dialectrict
balanced line to my loop to an open wire. I did not expect much
difference. I was shocked at the improvement. He is our resident expert
in the "North Woods". This is the Michigan upper peninsula, Northern
Wisconsin, and Minnesota. He is not an expert on antenna theory or math,
but damn sure knows what works best. I wish I had changed my feed line
three years ago when he told me to do so.

Michael

Live in the Minneapolis metro and just got back from the lower peninsula
last Monday. Was camping next to the lake in West Olive. Used my usual
portable HF antenna, a 20m end fed. I also have a 40/20 end fed, but
didn't figure it was worth the trouble for this trip since I was going
to be busy with other things at the site and I didn't know the campground.

You probably know the rule here - if you put it up at 20 below it will
never come down.

tom
K0TAR