Jack Painter wrote:
"Bob Miller" wrote

"Jack Painter" wrote:

"Bob Miller" wrote
Tom Ring wrote:

Seems to me there is a big difference between people losing their
tempers, and drive by shootings by gang members, such as the fact that
normal citizens don't lose their tempers and shoot strangers.
If you
think they do, show me some evidence.

Five shootings on the local TV news last night. Normal, reasonable
law-abiding people getting mad and shooting both friends and strangers
over trifle matters.

Bob
k5qwg

Hi Bob, let me help you understand what "show me some evidence" means:

Quote the stories with URLs so that we can decide for ourselves whether

or

not these drug-dealing gang-banging criminal history numbnuts meet the
standard of "Normal, reasonable law-abiding people" or not.

This was the anti-gun creeps biggest claim, that Americans all shoot each
other over an argument. It's a bunch of crap and anyone who spreads it is
too. But when you want to start trotting out the lies you've been fed I

will

gladly show you where each one has been debunked. At the end of the day,

you

are either going to be out of bunk or just go away.

Jack, if you go here while these stories are up http://www.woai.com/
see for yourself: a domestic argument that ends up with one guy dead,
one lady with a bullet in her neck.

Another guy shot, playing basketball. Another shot in an alley.

Typical Sunday in this town.

I ain't "trotting out lies." Just observing life.

Have fun.

Bob
k5qwg


Either one is fine.

Jack



O.k. Bob, I'll be kind and say you are not trotting out lies, you're just
delusional, because you imagine these are normal people, when every once of
common sense you have tells you otherwise. And the news stories offer no
details whatsoever, except the area of town (Lincolnshire on the east side).
Suppose you mosey on over to that basketball court and tell us who plays
there. If they ask you, tell them you're making sure they are just normal,
reasonable law-abiding people, the kind that get mad and shoot both friends
and strangers
over trifle matters because they had a gun. Drive bys are always gang
related Bob, if you're not quick enough to understand that call your local
police and ask about it. None of your stories (2 in all, not 5) are nornal
law abiding citizens. Curb your enthusiams for sensational Dan Rather
reporting and stick to facts next time so we have something to talk about,
o.k.?

By the way, see your own link and read about the "Home Invasion Suspect
Charged with Murder" in your nice neigborhood of ordinary law abiding
folks.. Another homeowner dead, murdered in a home invasion while her
elderly parents watched her shot to death, helpless to stop the 23 year old
******* kill her in front of them. Had they been armed, there would be a
dead felon, not a dead daughter. Wish it was your daughter Bob? Want to
watch her savagely beaten and shot to death in front of you? Plead with an
insane killer for her life and then for yours? You bet you do Bob, you sorry
wipe. You're happy that poor woman is dead and would sacrifice your own
daughter too, rather than own a nasty gun and learn how to use it. No? Tell
us where you differ on these fine points here Bob.

Have a nice evening.

Jack


This is the wrong place to fight the culture wars, Painter. The more the
population grows in the U.S., the more pressure there will be on
politicians to write more restrictive gun control legislation. If you
don't like it, write your congressman. No one else can do anything about
it.
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Cecil Moore wrote:
Richard Clark wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

what would you do?


You still lamenting about Dukakis losing in '98?


Worse than that. I'm lamenting about every Libertarian
presidential candidate losing every single year.

How are your non-weapon negotiations coming with that
250 pound guy in the process of raping your daughter?


Umm, Cecil. I support private ownership of guns, and as few laws that
regulate such ownership as possible.

But your argument is specious. That 250 pound man may just use his own
gun, make you redundant, than continue to use the gun to make sure your
daughter stays compliant.

There is plenty enough emotion to go around on both sides, and your
argument is just one more.

And since you want that answer, I would use my rifle *if* possible,
however, I would have to realize that if I do use it, I would face the
possibility of seriously wounding or even killing my daughter. If such
an act is taking place, the two would be in obvious close proximity, and
bullets do not always travel a straight line. The bullet might very well
pass through him, and enter her.

Probably the best course of action is to (unfortunately) wait until he
is temporarily incapacitated as will happen, at that point he will
likely roll off, and then wait for your moment....

- Mike KB3EIA -

Reg Edwards wrote:
"Bill Turner" wrote

The voltage at the ends of a half wave dipole can reach thousands of
volts even with relatively low power. Trees have been set on fire with
as low as 100 watts. Be careful!


==============================
Hi Bill,

A half-wave dipole is a resonant tuned circuit.

A 40 meter dipole using 14-gauge wire has a Q of about 11.

At 100 watts there is 85 volts at the feedpoint.

The voltage between the ends of the antenna is 85 times Q which equals 956
volts.

Therefore, the voltage between one end of the antenna and ground is only 478
volts.

And this falls to a much lower value when the end of the wire is in contact
with anything by virtue of the very high antenna impedance of around 1500
ohms.

Furthermore, the antenna is immediately detuned when it comes into contact
with anything and Tx power falls.

From where do you get your "thousands of volts" - the old wive's monthly
magazines?

There are far more Californian forest fires caused by arsonists than 100
watt transmitters. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to have a bad effect on the
quality of the wine.

Knowing that you are a wine aficionado, I would mention that there is
serious concern about the future quality of the wine. It appears that
global warming (which doesn't exist ha ha) has been on average warming
the regions of California where the wine grapes are grown. This is
causing them to ripen prematurely - at least as far as making the best
wine is concerned. Let us hope that a solution is in the works!

- mike KB3EIA -

Cecil Moore wrote:
Richard Clark wrote:

Let's see, you cannot catch a kid walking out with a 3 foot assault
rifle every day of the week for a year (we will skip holidays and
weekends when they are more diligent). Yeah, right, that's how it
happened! Shoplifters every day for a year and no one notices it at
the till, or in the records, or in the stock room.


You are shooting your own argument in the foot. The people you are
describing are *LAW-BREAKERS*, not law-abiders. There are already laws
against what they are doing. They already broke the law and you want
yet another law for them to break??? Why not advocate enforcing the
existing laws which are not being properly enforced? How many laws do
they have to break before you realize that law-breakers don't obey laws?
As I said before, you might as well be advocating laws prohibiting
hurricanes from hitting Florida.

Gun control laws don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
Gun control laws keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding people
who need guns to defend themselves against criminals. You and the
criminals would like to see all law-abiding citizens disarmed and
helpless.

I noted that i support private ownership of guns before.

But your argument is a bit too simple.

Case in point:

A young boy shot his sister with one of the family guns. It turned out
that the father was a real gun person, and firearms were all around the
house. In fact, the children's toy guns were stacked along with several
real weapons. The little fellow just picked up what he thought was
another toy and pointed at his sister. Took her head off f I'm not mistaken.

The parents were tried on reckless endangerment of children. They
fought the case as a gun control issue.


Another case is closer to home, much closer. Some years ago, there was
a neighbor up the road from us that was shall we say - unusual. Prone to
disturbances. He also let guns lay around the house. One day his son
brought one of the guns (loaded of course, in case someone breaks in and
tries to rape his daughter) points it at my kid, and thank God didn't
pull the trigger.

The police confiscated his guns, and he went on a tear about having his
rights violated.

Point is, all the "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and
who's raping who's daughter, and all the other emotional arguments
wouldn't have meant much to me would it?

The problem with too many people regarding gun laws is that they only
think of the back end of things. It's all after it's over.



In case you missed it: LAW-BREAKERS don't obey laws. They don't obey
the present laws and they won't obey any new laws that you are advocating.



To keep the thread on topic: IMO, you can't see the forest for the trees.


On both sides of the issue

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Reg Edwards wrote:
"Bill Turner" wrote

The voltage at the ends of a half wave dipole can reach thousands of
volts even with relatively low power. Trees have been set on fire with
as low as 100 watts. Be careful!


==============================
Hi Bill,

A half-wave dipole is a resonant tuned circuit.

A 40 meter dipole using 14-gauge wire has a Q of about 11.

At 100 watts there is 85 volts at the feedpoint.

The voltage between the ends of the antenna is 85 times Q which equals
956
volts.

Therefore, the voltage between one end of the antenna and ground is only
478
volts.

And this falls to a much lower value when the end of the wire is in
contact
with anything by virtue of the very high antenna impedance of around
1500
ohms.

Furthermore, the antenna is immediately detuned when it comes into
contact
with anything and Tx power falls.

From where do you get your "thousands of volts" - the old wive's
monthly
magazines?

There are far more Californian forest fires caused by arsonists than 100
watt transmitters. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to have a bad effect on
the
quality of the wine.

Knowing that you are a wine aficionado, I would mention that there is
serious concern about the future quality of the wine. It appears that
global warming (which doesn't exist ha ha) has been on average warming
the regions of California where the wine grapes are grown. This is
causing them to ripen prematurely - at least as far as making the best
wine is concerned. Let us hope that a solution is in the works!

- mike KB3EIA -

But Rush said there's no such thing as global warming.
(Tell that to all the dead coral and melted glaciers.)
So sorry to hear about the wine. Better drink some moore quick!
73
H.
NQ5H

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:35:16 GMT, "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H"
wrote:

But Rush said there's no such thing as global warming.
(Tell that to all the dead coral and melted glaciers.)
So sorry to hear about the wine. Better drink some moore quick!

Hi All,

The Wine out of the Pacific Northwest is fast gaining a high
reputation. Could be from that same warming trend.

I must add that this last summer was one of the muggiest I've lived
through here. Humidity in the 80s. It almost competes with D.C.'s
June weather when I was back there during Reagan's funeral.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:35:16 GMT, "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H"
wrote:

But Rush said there's no such thing as global warming.
(Tell that to all the dead coral and melted glaciers.)
So sorry to hear about the wine. Better drink some moore quick!

Hi All,

The Wine out of the Pacific Northwest is fast gaining a high
reputation. Could be from that same warming trend.

I must add that this last summer was one of the muggiest I've lived
through here. Humidity in the 80s. It almost competes with D.C.'s
June weather when I was back there during Reagan's funeral.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC
There's a Wasington State Merlot (I'll remember the name next time I look at
a wine list) that I like all too much.
Now how are we going to connect this to antennas? I know! Empty wine bottles
make great base insulators for verticals!
73
H.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:54:06 GMT, "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H"
wrote:

There's a Wasington State Merlot (I'll remember the name next time I look at
a wine list) that I like all too much.
Now how are we going to connect this to antennas? I know! Empty wine bottles
make great base insulators for verticals!

My longwire could almost reach the Chateau Ste. Michelle winery (but
was closer to the Columbia winery and closer yet to the Red Hook ale
brewery).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:54:06 GMT, "H. Adam Stevens, NQ5H"
wrote:

There's a Wasington State Merlot (I'll remember the name next time I look
at
a wine list) that I like all too much.
Now how are we going to connect this to antennas? I know! Empty wine
bottles
make great base insulators for verticals!

My longwire could almost reach the Chateau Ste. Michelle winery (but
was closer to the Columbia winery and closer yet to the Red Hook ale
brewery).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

THAT'S IT!!!
Chateau Ste. Michelle!
Thanks!
73
H.

Cecil Moore wrote:
Bob Miller wrote:

Jack, please explain why we need battlefield weapons in a civilian
society.


That's simple. Because the criminals are armed with battlefield
weapons. Don't know about you, but I think it's stupid to take
my 66 year-old fists to a gunfight.

How many times do you need to shoot that beautiful deer before you
drag it to the sausage maker?


Deer don't shoot back. Criminals, including terrorists do, and
sometimes with fully automatic weapons. The criminals obviously
want the ordinary citizens to be disarmed. But why should you
want exactly the same thing as the criminals?

Did you know that the crime rate is falling in the concealed-carry
states? Did you know that a majority of states are concealed-carry
states? If you were a criminal, would you really want to take on
someone who might be packin' a concealed Colt .45?


If I were a criminal, and I thought my victim might be carrying a
concealed Colt .45, I would use a different tactic.

- Mike KB3EIA -