Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
Al Quaglieri writes:

1. Internet over power lines (BPL) is a stillborn technology


It's sort of the ISDN of radio.

Meaning what, that it will have a small niche market? I doubt it. ISDN actually
had broad appeal back in the days before DSL and cablemodems - I used it for a
year or two myself. It was still used widely in Europe for some time after DSL
and cable became commonplace here. BPL won't be that popular. BPL probably
won't even manage the small niche that I believe you're referring to. It's just
too late in the game.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Steve Sobol wrote:
Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
Al Quaglieri writes:

1. Internet over power lines (BPL) is a stillborn technology


It's sort of the ISDN of radio.

Meaning what, that it will have a small niche market? I doubt it. ISDN actually
had broad appeal back in the days before DSL and cablemodems - I used it for a
year or two myself. It was still used widely in Europe for some time after DSL
and cable became commonplace here. BPL won't be that popular. BPL probably
won't even manage the small niche that I believe you're referring to. It's just
too late in the game.

In Europe, ISDN came in early, was adopted very quickly, and was very
reasonably-priced compared with the alternatives. In the US, the pricing
schemes were outrageously expensive and most of the telcos either did not
have it available or didn't even know what it was. As late as five years
ago, I went around with GTE for two months trying to get an ISDN line for
a local voiceover studio.

In the US, ISDN was a flop because it was too expensive, too slow, and too
late to market. If it had become available as quickly as it had in Europe
and as universally, it would have been very popular. But it wasn't.

I gather these are the issues with BPL... it's not anything that you can't
get better from other services that have been in place longer.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

In the US, ISDN was a flop because it was too expensive, too slow, and too
late to market. If it had become available as quickly as it had in Europe
and as universally, it would have been very popular. But it wasn't.

(A) ISDN was faster than dialup - no one (hopefully) is claiming that it was
meant to replace leased lines.

(B) Yes, ISDN was expensive in some places. In Ohio we got lucky. Business ISDN
was tarriffed per minute, but you could get residential for as little as
$37/month for 75 calls/month (metered access, 8c/call after that) or about $45
flat rate.

And I still maintain that ISDN was more useful for that time period than BPL
will be now.

**SJS (trying to tie this argument back into radio somehow, and failing miserably)


--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Steve Sobol wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

In the US, ISDN was a flop because it was too expensive, too slow, and too
late to market. If it had become available as quickly as it had in Europe
and as universally, it would have been very popular. But it wasn't.

(A) ISDN was faster than dialup - no one (hopefully) is claiming that it was
meant to replace leased lines.

The telcos were pricing it higher than many leased line facilities. Hell,
you could get Switched-56 for less than ISDN in Richmond, VA. (Sadly here
in GTE-land we couldn't get either).

I could get a 16KC 2-wire crosstown for less than a quarter what a single
remote ISDN circuit cost. And I could get the 16KC loop installed with a
week's notice, instead of a year.

(B) Yes, ISDN was expensive in some places. In Ohio we got lucky. Business ISDN
was tarriffed per minute, but you could get residential for as little as
$37/month for 75 calls/month (metered access, 8c/call after that) or about $45
flat rate.

Residental ISDN?
You have to be kidding!
Was it actually on the residential rate schedule? I gather that was
a non-tariffed service? That never made it out anywhere around here.

And I still maintain that ISDN was more useful for that time period than BPL
will be now.

I dunno, but I'd sure like to be able to order 48F burglar alarm circuits
from the telco again. Now THAT was a cheap way of doing remote work. And
sometimes it even sounded good.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Residental ISDN?
You have to be kidding!
Was it actually on the residential rate schedule? I gather that was
a non-tariffed service? That never made it out anywhere around here.

Residential ISDN is available in the Nashville area. My boss had it a
few years ago - actually I'm pretty sure he still does.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On 26 Nov 2004 16:18:46 GMT, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:


Residental ISDN?
You have to be kidding!
Was it actually on the residential rate schedule? I gather that was
a non-tariffed service? That never made it out anywhere around here.

About the only thing that Gore managed to actually do in Tennessee was get
Residential ISDN handled the same as a standard analog circuit.. The equipment
was pricey, but other than that, it was the same price as any other
residential loop. In Florida? Priced -above- the roof. Way over it. When I
asked for ISDN, I got told the circuit would be something like $118 a month,
plus $.10 per minute while it was "off the hook".. plus so many cents per
operation on the control circuit. (Pick up and dial, another $.10..that sort
of thing.) - If you used both channels, double the per minute rate. In short,
a huge ripoff.. (And they also jacked up the long distance rates through the
roof as well.)

I dunno, but I'd sure like to be able to order 48F burglar alarm circuits
from the telco again. Now THAT was a cheap way of doing remote work. And
sometimes it even sounded good.
--scott

Same - given a bit of inspiration, a friend down there ended up have a
monitoring circuit from his house to his ISP. Instant T1...