On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


[snip]

The NE602 only supports Colpitts and Butler crystal oscillator
configurations. It is *not* an inverter-style oscillator.

See:

http://www.semiconductors.com/acroba...tes/AN1983.pdf

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


Since you don't specify anything important like IP3, my recommendation
is Siemens S042P. Earlier, when Motorola was easy to buy from, I would
have used MC1496P, but none of them have high IP3 and I suppose NE602
isn't any better. If balance isn't important, I would use BF905 or
BF199

----
Jan-Martin, LA8AK, N-4623 Kristiansand
technical topics http://home.online.no/~la8ak/c.htm

here is the first mention of IP3 in the thread, I've asked whether it
is important or not, but have not received any confirmation and will
therefore not comment. If IP3 was said to be important I am aware of
other mixers, and have used some douzens SBL1, SBL-1X, CM-1, SRA1 and
other since 1977. A very easy mixer to use is TBA120=SN76660N.

I usually construct to requirement, not what somebody else think is
fine

73

----
Jan-Martin, LA8AK, N-4623 Kristiansand
http://home.online.no/~la8ak/

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


Since you don't specify anything important like IP3, my recommendation
is Siemens S042P. Earlier, when Motorola was easy to buy from, I would
have used MC1496P, but none of them have high IP3 and I suppose NE602
isn't any better. If balance isn't important, I would use BF905 or
BF199

----
Jan-Martin, LA8AK, N-4623 Kristiansand
technical topics http://home.online.no/~la8ak/c.htm

here is the first mention of IP3 in the thread, I've asked whether it
is important or not, but have not received any confirmation and will
therefore not comment. If IP3 was said to be important I am aware of
other mixers, and have used some douzens SBL1, SBL-1X, CM-1, SRA1 and
other since 1977. A very easy mixer to use is TBA120=SN76660N.

I usually construct to requirement, not what somebody else think is
fine

73

----
Jan-Martin, LA8AK, N-4623 Kristiansand
http://home.online.no/~la8ak/

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:01:50 +0100, "Jan-Martin Noeding, LA8AK"
wrote:

here is the first mention of IP3 in the thread, I've asked whether it
is important or not, but have not received any confirmation and will
therefore not comment. If IP3 was said to be important I am aware of
other mixers, and have used some douzens SBL1, SBL-1X, CM-1, SRA1 and
other since 1977. A very easy mixer to use is TBA120=SN76660N.

If you have a very high-Q tunable front end filter, you usually get
away with a mediocre IP3. However, if wide open (1 octave) front end
filters are used, you would benefit from a high IP3 if you are using a
decent antenna.

If you try to receive the 7000 .. 7100 kHz amateur band in Europe,
with 100-500 kW broadcast transmitters every 5 kHz starting at 7105
kHz, the input IP3 number would have to be at least 20 dB higher than
the strongest broadcast signals or even 30 dB higher if you try to
receive QRP stations.

Attenuating the whole antenna signal with a passive attenuator will
also rapidly drop the IP3 products, but sooner or later the weak
desired signal will be lost in attenuator thermal noise.

Paul OH3LWR

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:01:50 +0100, "Jan-Martin Noeding, LA8AK"
wrote:

here is the first mention of IP3 in the thread, I've asked whether it
is important or not, but have not received any confirmation and will
therefore not comment. If IP3 was said to be important I am aware of
other mixers, and have used some douzens SBL1, SBL-1X, CM-1, SRA1 and
other since 1977. A very easy mixer to use is TBA120=SN76660N.

If you have a very high-Q tunable front end filter, you usually get
away with a mediocre IP3. However, if wide open (1 octave) front end
filters are used, you would benefit from a high IP3 if you are using a
decent antenna.

If you try to receive the 7000 .. 7100 kHz amateur band in Europe,
with 100-500 kW broadcast transmitters every 5 kHz starting at 7105
kHz, the input IP3 number would have to be at least 20 dB higher than
the strongest broadcast signals or even 30 dB higher if you try to
receive QRP stations.

Attenuating the whole antenna signal with a passive attenuator will
also rapidly drop the IP3 products, but sooner or later the weak
desired signal will be lost in attenuator thermal noise.

Paul OH3LWR

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


Since you don't specify anything important like IP3,

Can someone kindly confirm what the hell "IP3" is?? I can only think
of "3rd order intermodulation products" which might easily be
completely wrong. It would be helpful if whoever first uses an
uncommon abbreviation would have the courtesy to state what it meant!
(as is customary first time around)
snarl, hiss, etc
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


Since you don't specify anything important like IP3,

Can someone kindly confirm what the hell "IP3" is?? I can only think
of "3rd order intermodulation products" which might easily be
completely wrong. It would be helpful if whoever first uses an
uncommon abbreviation would have the courtesy to state what it meant!
(as is customary first time around)
snarl, hiss, etc
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:11:27 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


Since you don't specify anything important like IP3,

Can someone kindly confirm what the hell "IP3" is?? I can only think
of "3rd order intermodulation products" which might easily be
completely wrong. It would be helpful if whoever first uses an
uncommon abbreviation would have the courtesy to state what it meant!
(as is customary first time around)
snarl, hiss, etc

It's only an "uncommon abbreviation" to certain Brits who think they
can learn by insulting the masters ;-)

Look up 3rd order intercept point.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:11:27 +0000, Paul Burridge
wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:09:03 -0000, SWbeginner
wrote:

Do the dual gate mosfets outperform the NE602 with regards to IP3?

For some reason the NE602 refuses to oscillate with crystals but LC's are
OK.


Since you don't specify anything important like IP3,

Can someone kindly confirm what the hell "IP3" is?? I can only think
of "3rd order intermodulation products" which might easily be
completely wrong. It would be helpful if whoever first uses an
uncommon abbreviation would have the courtesy to state what it meant!
(as is customary first time around)
snarl, hiss, etc

It's only an "uncommon abbreviation" to certain Brits who think they
can learn by insulting the masters ;-)

Look up 3rd order intercept point.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Paul Burridge wrote:

Can someone kindly confirm what the hell "IP3" is?? I can only think
of "3rd order intermodulation products" which might easily be
completely wrong. It would be helpful if whoever first uses an
uncommon abbreviation would have the courtesy to state what it meant!
(as is customary first time around)
snarl, hiss, etc

I agree it's discourteous to use an uncommon abbreviation without
explanation. But IP3 is a very common abbreviation when discussing mixer
or receiver performance, and it's reasonable to assume that anyone more
than superficially involved in receiver or mixer design or application
has at least heard the term. Or that they can at least do a simple
google search. (It really doesn't take any more time than making an
angry newgroup posting!) A google search of "IP3 mixers" brought about
2500 hits. I'm sure that if you read one or two of them, you'll get the
idea.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL