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Old March 20th 07, 07:25 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate

"Russ" wrote in message
et
Being a Taxi driver and being dispatched by amateur radio
= No - No! Being a Taxi driver and visiting with friends on the
local 2-meter while waiting for a fa No Problem.


An interesting topic, but IMHO there are two distinct things he

[1] being paid *to* operate and
[2] being paid *while* operating.

[1] is obviously a no-no but I see no problem with [2] - it is no
different from what I can see to doing anything else personal while at
work, i.e. reading a newspaper while having a cup of coffee in a spare few
minutes or chatting to a colleague.

Unfortunately, my office itself is very well shielded from any local
repeaters, but if I'm out and about around the site I'll often carry a
handheld around with me.

73 Ivor G6URP



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Old March 20th 07, 07:57 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 -0400, Russ wrote:

Being a Taxi driver and being dispatched by amateur radio = No - No!
Being a Taxi driver and visiting with friends on the local 2-meter while
waiting for a fa No Problem.


Right. I agree with that. And it's been my interpretation of the rules
for 44 years.

But, now along comes the ARRL and, in their Extra Class License Manual,
says "There is a general rule that you may not be paid to operate your
Amateur Radio station. In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of the
rule?

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Old March 21st 07, 12:38 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate


"Rick" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 -0400, Russ wrote:

Being a Taxi driver and being dispatched by amateur radio = No - No!
Being a Taxi driver and visiting with friends on the local 2-meter while
waiting for a fa No Problem.


Right. I agree with that. And it's been my interpretation of the rules
for 44 years.

But, now along comes the ARRL and, in their Extra Class License Manual,
says "There is a general rule that you may not be paid to operate your
Amateur Radio station. In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of the
rule?


Sounds like it would be a good idea to ask Riley Hollingsworth for
clarification?

Keith G Malcolm
VK1ZKM
22 Mar 2007


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Old March 21st 07, 12:47 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate

On Mar 20, 11:57�am, Rick wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 -0400, Russ wrote:
Being a Taxi driver and being dispatched by amateur radio = No - No!
Being a Taxi driver and visiting with friends on the local 2-meter while
waiting for a fa *No Problem.


Right. *I agree with that. *And it's been my interpretation of the rules
for 44 years.

But, now along comes the ARRL and, in their Extra Class License Manual,
says "There is a general rule that you may not be paid to operate your
Amateur Radio station. *In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of the
rule?


I suggest checking out the NCVEC and their Extra question
pool. See www.ncvec.org.

73, Len

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Old March 21st 07, 11:50 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate

On Mar 20, 2:57�pm, Rick wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 -0400, Russ wrote:
Being a Taxi driver and being dispatched by amateur radio = No - No!
Being a Taxi driver and visiting with friends on the local 2-meter while
waiting for a fa *No Problem.


Right. *I agree with that. *And it's been my interpretation of the rules
for 44 years.

But, now along comes the ARRL and, in their Extra Class License Manual,
says "There is a general rule that you may not be paid to operate your
Amateur Radio station. *


And that's true. Except in certain specific cases, an
Amateur Radio operator cannot be paid to operate
an Amateur Radio station.

In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

That's true as well - in *most* cases. Not *all* cases.

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of the
rule?


It's not a "goofball interpretation" at all. It's just common
sense. In *most* cases you cannot legally operate an
Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid by your
employer.

The exceptions a

- Teachers and other educators that use Amateur Radio as
part of the curriculum (that's in the rules)
- Break times, layover/rest times and meal periods, when
the employee is being paid but is not expected to be working.
- Space Shuttle and other space operations (generally considered to be
a combination of the above two exceptions)
- In an emergency situation if all other means of
communication are not available. (This applies to just about
any radio available - but it better be a real emergency!)

Just common sense.

btw, someone gave some examples, such as the BNSF
locomotive engineer and the taxi driver. It should be noted
that while *FCC* Part 97 rules may permit the operations
described, that does not make them 100% OK.

Many employers have rules prohibiting their employees'
on-duty use of radios other than those provided by the
employer. In some cases this includes personal cell
phones. The idea is to eliminate distractions, and the
possibility of interference between radio systems. Of
course this does not apply in an emergency if the normal
means of communication aren't available, and the employer's rules
usually allow for that.

It doesn't do amateur radio any good if an employee comes
under disciplinary action or is fired for operating an amateur
radio station on the job. Particularly if that operation
compromises safety or getting the job done.

73 de Jim, N2EY



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Old March 21st 07, 01:18 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate


"Larry" wrote in message
...

Hospital workers and emergency service personnel are all being "paid" to
operate ham radio after they get their licenses, as are NOAA Weather
Bureau
bureaucrats at WX4CHS, at the Charleston Weather Bureau Office.

None that I know of have been busted.

Larry W4CSC
--


This was explicitely addressed in the October Omnibus Report & Order:

52. Mr. DiGennaro also requests that we amend Section 97.113 our Rules,
which
prohibits "[c]ommunications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
indirect, paid or
promised," by amateur stations,227 to clarify that amateur licensees who, by
virtue of their
employment, are directly involved in facilitating relief and recovery in
times of disaster are not
prohibited from effecting emergency communications using amateur radio.228
We conclude that
the proposed rule change is not necessary, however, because Section 97.113
does not prohibit
amateur radio operators who are emergency personnel engaged in disaster
relief from using the
amateur service bands while in a paid duty status.229 These individuals are
not receiving
compensation for transmitting amateur service communications; rather, they
are receiving
compensation for services related to their disaster relief duties and in
their capacities as
emergency personnel.230

- Dennis Brothers, N1DB

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Old March 21st 07, 02:59 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 20, 2:57�pm, Rick wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 -0400, Russ wrote:


And that's true. Except in certain specific cases, an
Amateur Radio operator cannot be paid to operate
an Amateur Radio station.

In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

That's true as well - in *most* cases. Not *all* cases.

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of
the
rule?


It's not a "goofball interpretation" at all. It's just common
sense. In *most* cases you cannot legally operate an
Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid by your
employer.

The exceptions a

- Teachers and other educators that use Amateur Radio as
part of the curriculum (that's in the rules)
- Break times, layover/rest times and meal periods, when
the employee is being paid but is not expected to be working.
- Space Shuttle and other space operations (generally considered to be
a combination of the above two exceptions)
- In an emergency situation if all other means of
communication are not available. (This applies to just about
any radio available - but it better be a real emergency!)

Ok...
I'm on a salary, I get paid for a week of work but I take a day off to go
fishin'... I talk on my 2mtr and by your interpertation, I'm illegal because
I'm using my 2mtr while I'm getting paid.

I think a little common sense goes a long ways here.

Now, the rule was meant that amateurs can not and will not use their radio
for conducting business. That's the illustration of the taxi driver or the
railroad engineer. They can't conduct actual business over amateur radio
while at work or when off. They can, however, if within the rules and
regulations of their particular company, talk to friends about non-business
related chit-chat.

I have worked for an automotive dealer for 30 years. I catch myself giving
automotive advise (service/parts type of advise) and wonder if I'm violating
the business rule. I've had many private discussions with VE's and many
others, and we figured out that as long as I don't ask them to come down and
purchase a part/have the service done/ buy a car from me then I'm ok giving
advise on how to fix the problem or what to look for or what to buy or how
to do it, etc.

Now, while at work, and I see a storm comming, I'll make my report. If I'm
takin' a break and go outside and talk to a friend on a machine for 5~10
minutes, I'm not breaking any FCC rules, nor am I breaking any company rules
about radio communications.


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Old March 21st 07, 10:20 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate


"Russ" wrote in message
.. .

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 20, 2:57�pm, Rick wrote:
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 -0400, Russ wrote:


And that's true. Except in certain specific cases, an
Amateur Radio operator cannot be paid to operate
an Amateur Radio station.

In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

That's true as well - in *most* cases. Not *all* cases.

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of
the
rule?


It's not a "goofball interpretation" at all. It's just common
sense. In *most* cases you cannot legally operate an
Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid by your
employer.

The exceptions a

- Teachers and other educators that use Amateur Radio as
part of the curriculum (that's in the rules)
- Break times, layover/rest times and meal periods, when
the employee is being paid but is not expected to be working.
- Space Shuttle and other space operations (generally considered to be
a combination of the above two exceptions)
- In an emergency situation if all other means of
communication are not available. (This applies to just about
any radio available - but it better be a real emergency!)

Ok...
I'm on a salary, I get paid for a week of work but I take a day off to go
fishin'... I talk on my 2mtr and by your interpertation, I'm illegal
because I'm using my 2mtr while I'm getting paid.


No, the "Break times....." comment applies to the day off situation. You
are getting paid but you are not expected to be working. And you are not
getting paid to specifically operate that radio.

Dee, N8UZE


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Old March 23rd 07, 06:29 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:40:22 EDT, "Russ" wrote:

Being a engineer/conductor and talking to the automobile driving down the
highway about the train on 2 meter simplex: No problem.


YES problem. The FRA and most railroads' rule books prohibit train
operating crews from using any communication system not related to
train operation or safety (reporting incidents) while on duty.

Whether crewmenbers adhere to that or not is up to the individual, his
union representative, and the powers-that-be if caught.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest

Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

e-mail: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net

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Old March 23rd 07, 06:29 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default Being paid while you operate

On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:57:45 EDT, Rick wrote:

But, now along comes the ARRL and, in their Extra Class License Manual,
says "There is a general rule that you may not be paid to operate your
Amateur Radio station. In most cases this also means that you cannot
operate an Amateur Radio station during the time that you are being paid
by your employer.".

Where do you suppose they came up with that goofball interpretation of the
rule?


I think that it's a very clear statement. "In most cases" means just
what it says. There are exceptions.
--

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
ARRL Volunteer Counsel

email: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net



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