"How is this different than picking a pair where there's an active
repeater, or a repeater that is temporarily down? It's not your
prerogative to "pick a pair", just because you think it's unused. That's
what frequency coordination is for, and the reason it exists. Of course
you have an "explicit reason"; that doesn't give you the right to ignore
the law. And yes, it is "the law".


Could you please remind us where the work of the frequency coordinator is
enshrined in law?

Sure there is a legal duty not to cause interference, but as the OP said it
is not possible to interfere with a non-existent system.

Jeff

Jeff wrote:
"How is this different than picking a pair where there's an active
repeater, or a repeater that is temporarily down? It's not your
prerogative to "pick a pair", just because you think it's unused. That's
what frequency coordination is for, and the reason it exists. Of course
you have an "explicit reason"; that doesn't give you the right to ignore
the law. And yes, it is "the law".


Could you please remind us where the work of the frequency coordinator is
enshrined in law?

Try going without one. Who wins the frequency? the one with th e
strongest signal, I suppose.

Sure there is a legal duty not to cause interference, but as the OP said it
is not possible to interfere with a non-existent system.


Squatting is just bad manners, and not terribly civilized. Hams are
supposed to be civilized. Let's say that you put up an uncoordinated
repeater on a frequency that someone else has coordinated. Then le't
suppose another uncoordinated repeater goes up on the frequency you
picked. Who controls that frequency? You or the second squatter? Who moves?

I looked up the repeater coordination in Hans' area. Although I didn't
come up with 108 allocations, I might not be using the same total area
he is. I used Minneapolis/St Paul, and came up with a hundred - 76 in
Minneapolis and 24 in St Paul. Fairly close at any rate.

On Artscipub.com, they have listed 21 repeaters for Minneapolis, and 1
for St Paul.

Note that 3 of those are in the 6 meter band, and 4 are on 222 MHz band.

That leaves us with 8 on 144 MHz and 7 on 440 MHz. Less than 10 percent
utilization.

There is no reason that application can not be made to acquire one of
those unused pairs. I don't know if it is universal, but in at least
some repeater councils, after 6 months of no use, and no extenuating
circumstances, a repeater pair can come up for re-coordination.

But looking at the disparity between the assigned numbers, the repeaters
in use, and what Hans has to say about the situation, adding a new
repeater is not going to cure what appears to be a severe lack of
interest in V/UHF repeater use in his area. Seriously, that needs fixed
first.

Has anyone tried re-coordination, Hans?

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

In article ,
Michael Coslo wrote:
Could you please remind us where the work of the frequency coordinator is
enshrined in law?

Try going without one. Who wins the frequency? the one with th e
strongest signal, I suppose.

What, exactly, is the signal strength coming from a repeater that does not
exist? I suspect 0 is a correct answer.

Sure there is a legal duty not to cause interference, but as the OP said it
is not possible to interfere with a non-existent system.

Squatting is just bad manners,

Using an unused frequency is not squatting. It's done every day.

Hams are
supposed to be civilized. Let's say that you put up an uncoordinated
repeater on a frequency that someone else has coordinated.

Ok. He's the coordinted user, but hasn't installed any hardware in the three
years that he's had that coordination. That frequency pair is coordinated
but unused.

Then le't
suppose another uncoordinated repeater goes up on the frequency you
picked.

Ok. Someone else puts up a repeater on the frequency you put yours on.
Good so far.

Who controls that frequency? You or the second squatter? Who moves?

Nobody controls it. The law says that you are both responsible for
solving the interference issues. Nobody has to move. You might solve
it by putting different tones on the inputs. You might solve it by
lowering power, or in any number of other ways. But nobody "controls"
the frequency. You are both on the hook. That's part of the privilege
of being able to select one's operating frequency.

On Artscipub.com, they have listed 21 repeaters for Minneapolis, and 1
for St Paul.

Repeater directories are really good for telling you where the repeater
is, but notoriously bad for telling you what they cover. To know a pair
is unused, you need much more than a repeater directory.

That leaves us with 8 on 144 MHz and 7 on 440 MHz. Less than 10 percent
utilization.

There is no reason that application can not be made to acquire one of
those unused pairs.

How do you know they are unused? In my state, you ask for a pair but you
don't ask for a specific one. They tell you what you get.

I don't know if it is universal, but in at least
some repeater councils, after 6 months of no use, and no extenuating
circumstances, a repeater pair can come up for re-coordination.

So the coordinators have a means of reallocating unused pairs.

But looking at the disparity between the assigned numbers, the repeaters
in use, and what Hans has to say about the situation, adding a new
repeater is not going to cure what appears to be a severe lack of
interest in V/UHF repeater use in his area. Seriously, that needs fixed
first.

Yep.

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

I looked up the repeater coordination in Hans' area. Although I didn't come up
with 108 allocations, I might not be using the same total area he is. I used
Minneapolis/St Paul, and came up with a hundred - 76 in Minneapolis and 24 in
St Paul. Fairly close at any rate.

On Artscipub.com, they have listed 21 repeaters for Minneapolis, and 1 for St
Paul.

Note that 3 of those are in the 6 meter band, and 4 are on 222 MHz band.

That leaves us with 8 on 144 MHz and 7 on 440 MHz. Less than 10 percent
utilization.

There is no reason that application can not be made to acquire one of those
unused pairs.

The pairs are all assigned, Mike, or are assigned in other nearby areas too
close for geographical sharing.

If you must check my numbers (why would I make something up?) the official
coordinated list is at http://www.mrc.gen.mn.us/MN_List.pdf ... scroll down to
about page 10 under the heading METRO

Now where did I lay my Skimmer......

Sheeeeeesh!

73, de Hans, K0HB