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Old December 21st 11, 02:05 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default ARRL and the NTSB recommendation on drivers and electronic devices

This year Nevada (where I live) passed a law (S.B. 140,
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/7...B/SB140_EN.pdf )
outlawing certain practices regarding communications devices while
driving. Primarily aimed at texting and cell phone use, it also
impacts amateurs. Specifically:
1. No text or data entry while driving.
2. Cell phone OK only if no-hands.
3. Hand-held cellphone OK in emergency.
4. Police and Fire exempt while on duty and responding to emergency.
5. Amateurs exempt while in a real emergency or in a emergency drill.
6. Anyone can use voice communications with no-hands equipment.
6. Licensed radio users (amateurs, GMRS, etc, but not CB) may use
hand-held microphones in non-emergency non-drill, if the microphone
has only a push-to-talk (PTT) switch and no other switches.

Regarding item 6, all amateur radio mobile rigs I know of have a
multiplicity of buttons on the microphone. I don't know how I would
get a mike with only a PTT. It's possible that GMRS radios have only
a PTT switch.

I do know about arrangements using BlueTooth earlobe transceivers. But
that's not an option for me because I am deaf in one ear (due to an
attack of the disease Shingles), and a BlueTooth in the other ear
would prevent me from hearing traffic noise.

In the year 2000, just after upgrading from Technician to Extra (Thank
you, FCC, for lowering the code speed), I bought a Icom 706MkIIG
mobile HF tranceiver and a screwdriver antenna. While driving along a
back road, I tried tuning across the 20 meter phone band. In a very
short time I ended up in the ditch. (Fortunately, southern Nevada is
all desert with no naturally growing trees, just tumbleweed.) I shut
off the radio, and when I got home I uninstalled it and the antenna.
Now the only use the radio gets is on Field Day.

Dick Grady, AC7EL


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Old December 21st 11, 02:06 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default ARRL and the NTSB recommendation on drivers and electronic devices

In article Steve Bonine writes:

It amazes me to think that there are people who are reasonable in other
respects, but who can say with a straight face that there is no evidence
that using ham radio while driving results in distraction. Somehow hams
have a mysterious ability to tune around looking for a QSO, check the
antenna match, and carry on a conversation without this activity
distracting them from driving? If it wasn't for the clear danger it
poses, that would be funny.


What clear danger?

Tuning around looking for a QSO? Does that mean hitting the up/down
button to scan on a VHF or UHF radio? Perhaps stepping through the
stored memories, since most use those now to keep track of PL tones and
the like.

No method of checking the antenna match exists on the mobile rigs
I have seen. Hard to check it.

Carry on a conversation? If talking to someone while you are driving
overloads your mental capabilities to impair driving, you should not be
driving in the first place.

Clear danger? Even the danger of handheld cellphones is far from
clear. Some very good observations have been made to refute the claims
of the dangers (phones, not amateur radio).


After 47 years as an ARRL member, we parted ways on this issue. I think
it is morally irresponsible for a national organization to encourage
their members to engage in what is obviously dangerous behavior that
puts other people at risk.


Different people have different abilities, as we used to say, some
cannot walk and chew gum at the same time. What seems an obvious
danger to you may be no more difficult than chewing gum to another.


It amazes me that society hasn't figured out that people will multitask
while driving if they can. We would be far better off to educate folks
on how to do it safely instead of simply preaching abstinence.


Alan
wa6azp

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Old December 21st 11, 06:19 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default ARRL and the NTSB recommendation on drivers and electronic devices


In article ,
Alan wrote:

What clear danger?

Carry on a conversation? If talking to someone while you are driving
overloads your mental capabilities to impair driving, you should not be
driving in the first place.


I mentioned earlier that I think other hams are accustomed to mobile
participants dropping out of a conversation suddenly. If the person
was talking when it needs to happen, he/she will usually have time
to say "Hang on." If someone else had the channel, then the other
person simply won't be there next time it's their turn, and the
other hams will go on to the next person. Even if it's just you and
one other ham chatting, they'll understand if you go away temporarily.

I find this to be midway between cellphone conversations (where
there is usually only one other participant and that peerson is
likely to be confused if you suddenly disappear) and in-car
conversations. Regarding the latter, I've heard talk-show callers
say, "If we ban cellphones in cars, what's next? Not letting you
talk to other people in the car?" But that situation is very
different, because someone in the car can *see* when a driving
situation is happening, and as long as they're above the age of
reason, they'll stop talking immediately.

So I don't see mobile amateur radio conversations as being quite
as safe as chatting with another person who's in the car, but I
still think they're qualitatively different from cellphone calls.


Patty N6BIS

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Old December 26th 11, 10:11 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default ARRL and the NTSB recommendation on drivers and electronic devices

On 12/20/2011 5:42 PM, Steve Bonine wrote:
On 12/19/11 2:00 PM, Phil Kane wrote:

Steve should realize and accept that there's a world of difference
between dispatch communications, which we do, and having a duplex
conversation.


It's not "dispatch communications" that we're talking about. If the ARRL
wants to go after an exemption for dispatch communications, I might be
able to support that. But they're defending the right of hams to
exercise all aspects of their hobby while driving. They're defending
their members' right to diddle with an HF rig, work DX, strain for weak
signals, and so on. The fact that no sane person would do that does not
change what the ARRL is working for. And I've seen people who in other
respects were perfectly sane do exactly this while behind the wheel at
80 mph.

I've been using mobile radios, both ham and non-ham, for decades and
know how to do it safely.


Good for you. Your abilities do not extrapolate into the general ham
radio population.

I spent a
lot of effort to get the ham exemption written into the Oregon
hands-free statute, and I do use a hands-free device with my cellphone
at all times.


We are using an FCC license to determine whether someone is qualified to
drive while operating a radio. They're not required to have any training
and there is no limit to the amount of distraction they can impose upon
themselves.

73, Steve KB9X


I can tell you that at least in my case, and I suspect it is the case
with MANY hams.. The attitude is 100% different if using a Ham 2-way and
a cell phone...

A wise man is supposed to have said: Any man who can safely drive a car
while kissing a pretty girl is not giving the girl the attention she
deserves.

The cell phone is like the girl it demands more attantion than I can
spare when driving.

The radio.. not so much. Not nearly so much.

And the "Dispatch" communactions I did for 25 years .... was 2-way.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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Old December 27th 11, 02:07 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default ARRL and the NTSB recommendation on drivers and electronic devices

On 12/20/2011 11:18 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Several major differences.. The microphone on my radios is tethered, If
I drop it I can recover it without taking my eyes off the road (later)


Been there, done that. :-) Dropped the mic on the passenger seat
or wherever it happened to land, then used my hand to feel for
the mic cord and run along that until I found the mic again. No
need to look down for it.


cell phones are held to the ear for the most part.


Don't most states prohibit that now? I realize that such laws are
widely disregarded, but aren't most mobile cellphone users using
Bluetooth headsets now? (I presume the phone itself is in some
kind of mount or on the passenger seat, so not subject to dropping.)


Another thing I have found... My Attitude when using a cell phone is
very much different from my attitude when talking on 2 meters (or one of
the other radios) On the phone I switch considerable attention to the
phone..


Yeah, I can't quite explain it, but there *is* a tangible difference.
I think some of has to do with cellphones being (or at least behaving
like) full-duplex devices, whereas ham radios are very much an "over
to you" situation.

(And let me make it clear that I'm referring to talking on a cellphone
in general, not just in a car. I rarely use a cellphone anyway, but
never in a car. I don't even have the necessary setup for it.)


Patty

You may have hit it there in that last comment Patty (About the "over to
you" nature of ham radio)

And yes, many states do (And there is a federal movement to) prohibit
hand held Cell phones... That does not stop folks (Including in many
cases Police officers and government officials) from using them.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

-----
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Old December 27th 11, 02:08 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.moderated
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Default ARRL and the NTSB recommendation on drivers and electronic devices

On 12/21/2011 8:06 AM, Alan wrote:


No method of checking the antenna match exists on the mobile rigs
I have seen. Hard to check it.
Alan
wa6azp


Both the Ham HF Mobile I know best (Kenwood TS-2000) and one of my CB's
(I have several for some reaons.. actually I know why, but only one)
have built in SWR meters.. on the TS-2000 there is also one-touch
antenna matching provided you are using a compatible antenna.

That said, the TS-2000 is around 15-20 feet from the driver's seat in
this motorized house. And I never do SWR checks on the CB when
driving. Not that the antenna is adjustable from there.


MANY ham rigs now days have built in tuners and meters by the way.

--
Nothing adds Excitement like something that is none of your business.

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