From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

So, we'll change the debate over
to whether or not the ARS is a "technical" service

The ARS will not be a "technical" service with the current Ham radio culture.
Most homebrewing is for show or to boost the image of the ARS. They are too
snobby to include someone that is interested in Homebrewing. Or its some EE
that usually doesn't attend meetings.

The clubs and Hamfests focus on antennas, contesting, and CW. With the
exception of antennas, ARS is primarily an appliance operator hobby. One
example is people coming from scanner or CB to ARS. Another example is the
comparison that "without CW, its just CB". Note that CW is an operator skill.

ARS is not a technical service because Hams have "voted" by their actions to
not do these things. Furthermore, they discourage other amateurs from doing
other than what they like to do. They also strongly encourage others to learn
CW. At several antenna setups, club meetings, ham gatherings, I have
participated in, often Hams try to persuade me to learn CW.

and whether the testing
should be changed into something more dumbed-down than it already is.

After that, the next bone of contention will be whether or not a prospective
ham should be required to know how to spell his name correctly on the
application!

To you, taking away one requirement (the CW test) is dumbing down because its
one less requirement. If more people focus on the written material, ARS could
be more than an operator's hobby and more of a technical hobby. That's not
dumbing down of the hobby.

It is only required 5 wpm CW speed, yet many Hams take pride in increasing
their code speed. The easy written test is not the problem. Its lack of
interest in the technical material, and achieving skills in these areas -
that's the problem.

"Vshah101" wrote in part ...

ARS is not a technical service because Hams have "voted" by their actions to
not do these things. Furthermore, they discourage other amateurs from doing
other than what they like to do. They also strongly encourage others to
learn CW. At several antenna setups, club meetings, ham gatherings, I have
participated in, often Hams try to persuade me to learn CW.
__________________________________________________ _______________________

And they SHOULD. I always strongly encourage Hams to learn CW. It's a
great skill to have. I didn't blink when someone encouraged me to learn
about SSB operation, Manual tuning, PSK, Antennas, and APRS. I found all of
them very interesting and it added more tools to my ARS toolbox. You make
it sound like CW is something that should be avoided at all costs. You
couldn't be more wrong. It is narrow attitudes like yours that hurt the
ARS.

Arnie -
KT4ST

"What Hath God Wrought?"

(Vshah101) wrote in message ...
From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

So, we'll change the debate over
to whether or not the ARS is a "technical" service

The ARS will not be a "technical" service with the current Ham radio culture.
Most homebrewing is for show or to boost the image of the ARS. They are too
snobby to include someone that is interested in Homebrewing. Or its some EE
that usually doesn't attend meetings.

Ahhhhh geeze-oh whiz....With the same snotty kid rantings again.
Same silly, unfounded and baseless stuff.

The clubs and Hamfests focus on antennas, contesting, and CW. With the
exception of antennas, ARS is primarily an appliance operator hobby. One
example is people coming from scanner or CB to ARS. Another example is the
comparison that "without CW, its just CB". Note that CW is an operator skill.

Yes...One you do not have, and thankfully with current events are
not likely to have...So we can talk about you all day long and you
won't know it.

ARS is not a technical service because Hams have "voted" by their actions to
not do these things. Furthermore, they discourage other amateurs from doing
other than what they like to do. They also strongly encourage others to learn
CW. At several antenna setups, club meetings, ham gatherings, I have
participated in, often Hams try to persuade me to learn CW.

No one "discourages" any other Ham from doing any thing he or she
likes.

and whether the testing
should be changed into something more dumbed-down than it already is.

After that, the next bone of contention will be whether or not a prospective
ham should be required to know how to spell his name correctly on the
application!

To you, taking away one requirement (the CW test) is dumbing down because its
one less requirement. If more people focus on the written material, ARS could
be more than an operator's hobby and more of a technical hobby. That's not
dumbing down of the hobby.

And which "one less requirement" WILL be "dumbing down", Vippy?

We've castrated the written tests and now the last vestige of
operator competencey has taken it's final breaths.

It is only required 5 wpm CW speed, yet many Hams take pride in increasing
their code speed. The easy written test is not the problem.

The "ease" of written tests is subjective, Vippy. If the present
tests were sequestered, like they should be, the tests wouldn't be as
easy as they are now.

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(Vshah101) writes:

From: ospam (Larry Roll K3LT)

So, we'll change the debate over
to whether or not the ARS is a "technical" service

The ARS will not be a "technical" service with the current Ham radio culture.
Most homebrewing is for show or to boost the image of the ARS. They are too
snobby to include someone that is interested in Homebrewing. Or its some EE
that usually doesn't attend meetings.

Vipul:

I don't disagree.

The clubs and Hamfests focus on antennas, contesting, and CW. With the
exception of antennas, ARS is primarily an appliance operator hobby. One
example is people coming from scanner or CB to ARS. Another example is the
comparison that "without CW, its just CB". Note that CW is an operator skill.

Yup -- got it right that time. CW *is* an operator skill. Do you have
something
against operator skill -- or are you one of those New Age hams that think
yakking into a microphone is all the demonstration of operator skill that
should
ever be required of you?

ARS is not a technical service because Hams have "voted" by their actions to
not do these things. Furthermore, they discourage other amateurs from doing
other than what they like to do.

Funny -- nobody has ever been able to "discourage" me from doing anything
I wanted to do. I just went ahead and did it. I could care less what other
people think, do, or say as far as my personal participation in amateur
radio is concerned. Moreover, I don't waste valuable time whining about it --
as the no-coders apparently are inclined to do.

They also strongly encourage others to learn
CW. At several antenna setups, club meetings, ham gatherings, I have
participated in, often Hams try to persuade me to learn CW.

And this is a bad thing? How so? If you were around me at an antenna
party, I'd be nagging you to get involved in PSK-31 and other digital modes
in addition to the CW! It's all good!

and whether the testing
should be changed into something more dumbed-down than it already is.

After that, the next bone of contention will be whether or not a prospective
ham should be required to know how to spell his name correctly on the
application!

To you, taking away one requirement (the CW test) is dumbing down because its
one less requirement. If more people focus on the written material, ARS could
be more than an operator's hobby and more of a technical hobby. That's not
dumbing down of the hobby.

Well, you no-coders have always claimed that exact thing, but what has
happened is that ALL licensing requirements have been significantly
"dumbed-down." However, in spite of it now being easier than ever in the
history of the ARS to obtain a license with full privileges, our numbers are
not showing significant growth. What is wrong with this picture?

Oooooohhh. I guess it is the "attitudes" of all the CW-loving fossils
like me that is turning off the newcomers. Right. (There you go, Kim --
I saved you a few keystrokes!)

It is only required 5 wpm CW speed, yet many Hams take pride in increasing
their code speed.

Well, we can't have any of that now, can we?

The easy written test is not the problem. Its lack of
interest in the technical material, and achieving skills in these areas -
that's the problem.

Once again, I don't disagree. Soooo -- what are YOU going to do about it?

73 de Larry, K3LT