Vshah101 wrote:

From: Dave Heil k8mn

Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas.

Your statement is not substantiated by fact.

It is a broad generalization, which, unless there is a logical influence, cannot support itself.

It certainly is broad and it certainly doesn't support itself.

However, I did not say 100% old-timer are not interested
in new ideas, just that there is a tendency for that in Ham radio.

Actually, that is not what you said at all. What you said is:
"Simple, the old-timers are not interested in new ideas."

Thats my,
and other's, experience, so is not substantiated by fact.

No "other's" have confirmed your claim.

The first part of your statement is not "an example" at all. Morse code
has demonstrated its usefulness and is still widely used in amateur
radio. Someone might "hold on" to morse code and be very active with
newer modes or might be involved in electronic circuit design.

In my local club newsletter. The club states that a new HF setup is keeping
with the goal of advancement of the radio art. However, the do little else
towards that effect, despite having alot of resourses which can be utilized for
technical activities.

They're probably doing all that when you aren't around.

Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members doing a group project.

Well, they do have photographic proof. We're stuck with just your
claim.

So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.

So you're back to telling them where their interests should lie.

The second part of your statement, the one about pressuring new Hams to
learn morse code is unsubstantiated by fact.

At various antenna setups, the other Hams try to persuade me to learn Morse code. This has happened several times.

And it was "pressure", not "encouragement"? Did it dawn on you that
they might be going easier on others and that they save the high
pressure tactics for you?

Some new hams don't want
to learn morse code and don't.

The third part of your statement, dealing with the exclusion of those
who don't want to learn morse code, is unsubstantiated by fact.

The ones that do become popular with the other club members. The ones that
don't want to learn Morse code become excluded.

Ahhh! So it is just you and it is now about popularity.

How do you know what "most old timers" do and what they are not
interested in? I know old timers who are very technically inclined

All I can say is what I have found in my area and in several other states.

I'll wager that most "old timers" aren't even involved with a radio
club. You'll have to use the callsign database and begin making phone
calls or knocking on doors to come up with a scientific sampling, Vipul.
I'd like to be able to feel sorry for you but my experience tells me
that you don't really have a handle on reality.


There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

That's right. You've begun with an outcome and you're trying to make
the statistics fit that outcome. Good luck.

Dave K8MN

From: Dave Heil k8mn

Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members
doing a group project.

Well, they do have photographic proof. We're stuck with just your
claim.

No, they only posed for the photograph. It does not mean that they actually did
that activity. I can ask people in that photograph if they are interested in
homebrewing and that person will say he is not interested in homebrewing.

Therefore, the photograph is just hype and does not represent what the club is
really interested in.

So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.

So you're back to telling them where their interests should lie.

I didn't say they were interested in homebrewing - the photograph did. It takes
a prominant place in the club publicity. Except, the photograph is a
mis-representation of what the club members are truly interested in.

I'll wager that most "old timers" aren't even involved with a radio
club.

They don't go to club meetings. And they don't go to Hamfests. Nor are they on
2m. I get it - they don't exist.

You'll have to use the callsign database and begin making phone
calls or knocking on doors to come up with a scientific sampling

A scientific sampling is not needed by me, nor any potential new recruit to Ham
radio. If that person's experiences are of anti-social, mostly male, mostly
older, non-technical (if they are interested in that), Hams, then thats all
they need to know. It won't do much good to show them the other aspect that
"could" exist, but does not exist for them.

There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the
effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

That's right. You've begun with an outcome and you're trying to make
the statistics fit that outcome.

I'm not making any statistics fit. I'm saying that if something is 95%* and it
takes you a certain amount of time to come across the other 5%, then its not
worth the effort.

----------------------------------------------------------------
*The 95% number is given for example purposes only. It is not meant to
represent a specific percentage.

(Vshah101) wrote in message ...
From: Dave Heil k8mn

Also, few club members are interested in homebrewing,
despite claiming interest by posing for a photograph showing club members
doing a group project.

Well, they do have photographic proof. We're stuck with just your
claim.

No, they only posed for the photograph. It does not mean that they actually did
that activity. I can ask people in that photograph if they are interested in
homebrewing and that person will say he is not interested in homebrewing.

Therefore, the photograph is just hype and does not represent what the club is
really interested in.

So far all we "have" is your word, which is, at best, dubious,
that this really occured. You won't ID the club, any of the members,
a web page with the news letter on it, etc etc etc.

So, the "advancement of the radio art" is just a justification
for more HF/CW activities.

So you're back to telling them where their interests should lie.

I didn't say they were interested in homebrewing - the photograph did. It takes
a prominant place in the club publicity. Except, the photograph is a
mis-representation of what the club members are truly interested in.

PAY ATTENTION WO WHAT WAS SAID, VIPUL!

(What's with all the allegedly college educated "engineer types".

What was said was YOU are back to telling "them" where thier
interests should lay. And you do. You constantly barrage this NG
with YOUR interpretation of what Amatuer Radio should be and how
"wrong" other Amateurs are for not following THAT doctrine.

I'll wager that most "old timers" aren't even involved with a radio
club.

They don't go to club meetings. And they don't go to Hamfests. Nor are they on
2m. I get it - they don't exist.

You'll have to use the callsign database and begin making phone
calls or knocking on doors to come up with a scientific sampling

A scientific sampling is not needed by me, nor any potential new recruit to Ham
radio. If that person's experiences are of anti-social, mostly male, mostly
older, non-technical (if they are interested in that), Hams, then thats all
they need to know. It won't do much good to show them the other aspect that
"could" exist, but does not exist for them.

Your creepiness is getting worse.

There have been exceptions of course, but it is too rare to be worth the
effort. I cannot search out the contradiction.

That's right. You've begun with an outcome and you're trying to make
the statistics fit that outcome.

I'm not making any statistics fit. I'm saying that if something is 95%* and it
takes you a certain amount of time to come across the other 5%, then its not
worth the effort.

Depends on what the "5%" is, Vippy, and whether or not you've got
the perseverence to find it or not. If the "95%" is clay, and the
"5%" is gold, then isn't it worth it to you to get your blue jeans a
bit dirty...???

----------------------------------------------------------------
*The 95% number is given for example purposes only. It is not meant to
represent a specific percentage.

"95%" IS a specific percentage. YOU quantified it, Vipster.

Steve, K4YZ

From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

You won't ID the club, any of the members,
I have more respect than that.


What was said was YOU are back to telling "them" where thier
interests should lay.

And neither should they tell me what my interests should be. Like, telling
people at club meetings that they should learn Morse code. Or, suggesting I
should learn Morse code when I participate in antenna setups or at Ham
gatherings.

You constantly barrage this NG
with YOUR interpretation of what Amatuer Radio should be and how
"wrong" other Amateurs are for not following THAT doctrine.

Like the current group of Hams do in their groups?

If the "95%" is clay,
Okay, makes sense.

and the
"5%" is gold, then isn't it worth it to you to get your blue jeans a
bit dirty...???

That 5% is gold at the end of a rainbow (it doesn't exist).

(Vshah101) wrote in message ...
From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

You won't ID the club, any of the members,

I have more respect than that.

Ohhh! I see! You can call THEM liars and you can accuse THEM of
misrepresnting the truth, but YOU have "too much respect"...?!?!

BBBWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! !

Do you ever REMOTELY realize just how stupid you just amde
yuorself look, Vipul?

What was said was YOU are back to telling "them" where thier
interests should lay.

And neither should they tell me what my interests should be. Like, telling
people at club meetings that they should learn Morse code. Or, suggesting I
should learn Morse code when I participate in antenna setups or at Ham
gatherings.

And how many of these people held you down while another member
hit you with a rubber hose to "force" you to learn Morse Code?

You constantly barrage this NG
with YOUR interpretation of what Amatuer Radio should be and how
"wrong" other Amateurs are for not following THAT doctrine.

Like the current group of Hams do in their groups?

Like WHAT, Vipul?

If the "95%" is clay,
Okay, makes sense.

and the
"5%" is gold, then isn't it worth it to you to get your blue jeans a
bit dirty...???

That 5% is gold at the end of a rainbow (it doesn't exist).

YOU will NEVER know if there's ANY gold anywhere, Vipul, because
you're too lazy and too timid to go find out if there is or not.

Steve, K4YZ

"Vshah101" wrote in message
...
From: (Steve Robeson, K4CAP)

You won't ID the club, any of the members,
I have more respect than that.


What was said was YOU are back to telling "them" where thier
interests should lay.

And neither should they tell me what my interests should be. Like, telling
people at club meetings that they should learn Morse code. Or, suggesting
I
should learn Morse code when I participate in antenna setups or at Ham
gatherings.


You are almost certainly misinterpreting their motives. They want to see
people improve, upgrade, and otherwise develop their amateur radio skills
and knowledge. It is in a benevolent spirit that they make these
suggestions. For example, I have been through setting up digital modes on
my system even though I don't care to use them. I've set them up and
checked them out for the sole purpose of expanding my personal hands on
knowledge. Once I had them working right, I was done using those modes.

You constantly barrage this NG
with YOUR interpretation of what Amatuer Radio should be and how
"wrong" other Amateurs are for not following THAT doctrine.

Like the current group of Hams do in their groups?

If the "95%" is clay,
Okay, makes sense.

and the
"5%" is gold, then isn't it worth it to you to get your blue jeans a
bit dirty...???

That 5% is gold at the end of a rainbow (it doesn't exist).


Your personal expections of ham radio are simply unrealistic. Thus you will
always be disappointed.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE