In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:

It's no myth, Dwight. Our culture has been
stagnated by 50 years of liberal propaganda in
the high schools and universities, the constant
whining of the liberal media, and the "mainstreaming"
of any kind of perversion known to man in the name
of "enlightenment." Sorry, but I have to call it
like I see it. It's a dumbed-down culture, pure
and simple.


Larry, it's spelled "dumb-downed" or "dumb downed."

Dwight:

In your haste to correct me, you got it wrong both times. It is, in fact,
"dumbed-down."

And, while I agree
with some of your points about the education system, I'm not willing to make
blanket statements about an entire culture.

That's OK, at least one of us is willing to do so.

Most schools and universities today are either state owned or state
supported. Therefore, to find an answer to the problems with schools, we
only have to look as far as our own state representatives. And, since they
like the federal education assistance available to them, those
representatives are not going to change unless we vote them out and are
willing to fund schools locally. I see no effort in either of those
directions.

Sad, but true.

73 de Larry, K3LT

ospam (Larry Roll K3LT) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Brian) writes:


So, Brian -- are you going to defend your statement, or not?

73 de Larry, K3LT

Yes. No. What statement did I make?

Brian:

As you were, Airman. My fault for not quoting it!

73 de Larry, K3LT

Thanks, Sarge.

For a second there, I felt like I was an instrument of national policy again.

bb

In article ,
(Brian) writes:

Brian:

As you were, Airman. My fault for not quoting it!

73 de Larry, K3LT

Thanks, Sarge.

For a second there, I felt like I was an instrument of national policy again.

bb

Brian:

Your welcome. Ah, yes, those were the days. As much as I've grown
to appreciate life outside of the Air Force, I have to admit that I do miss it.
But, odd as this may sound, if I had it to do over again, I think I'd
GO NAVY.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:

I do agree there is a problem that must be addressed. But, sadly, I
suspect the root of the problem lies mainly outside the school system.

Agreed!

Television jumps immediately to mind. Television has fed children an almost
continuous message over the last few decades that smart kids are nerds and
dumb kids are cool. With that in mind, there is little reason for kids to
make any real effort in school.

Agreed, and there's more. In general, commercial boradcast TV portrays the
following:

- All sorts of conflicts can be resolved, and goals reached, in less than an
hour or half-hour.

- 'Dad' is usually loud, outspoken, immature, mistaken, and exercises amazingly
poor judgement. But he's lovable and always forgiven. 'Mom' is quieter,
stronger, the solver of problems and 'forgiver' of 'Dad'. The 'kids' (when
present) are a mixture of the two.

- People of all kinds live in spacious, clean, well-organized homes, yet rarely
does anyone need to actually DO anything to keep them that way, or pay for
them.

- (This is my favorite) NOBODY *on* TV spends much time actually *watching* TV.
Particularly children.

--

One real problem with TV is that it is so totally passive. It requires very
little besides one's attention.

And, since Americans seem to prefer the
television industry's freedoms over better educated children, the problem
may never go away.

Driven by the almighty dollar. I recall that when we were kids, there were all
sorts of things that would not be shown on TV. Some of it was ludicrous - we
were supposed to believe that Rob and Laura Petrie slept in twin beds? But a
lot was geared to make TV G-rated.

Cable TV broke those taboos in the '70s by arguing that since cable was not
broadcast and you paid to have it in your home, you retained control. But then
broadcast TV copied cable as much as possible to remain "competitive".

Was all this "smart' or "dumb"?

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

My take is that the child has to be raised with an expectation that he
or she will indeed do well in school. Many are not raised this way.
Appreciation for the sciences, appreciation for learning and hard work,
all that good stuff.

Which starts at home.

Diminishing emphasis on "self-esteem" would be a great idea.
Self-esteem should be something earned. One of the strangest things I
have seen lately is the bizzare students who have a great sense of
self-esteem with absolutely no reason for it. No accomplishments, no
education, nothing but feeling really, really good about themselves.

The problem is that the terms "self-esteem" has obtained political correctness
while "self-confidence" is sadly neglected. Yet what kids need is the latter.
And there's only one way to get real self-confidence: by doing things.

We also have to remember that Students are individuals and mature at
different rates. I know many students who seemd to undergo a miraculous
change at some point in high school, going from slacker to achiever
almost overnight. My own kid underwent such a change right after he got
a steady girlfriend, his grades improved, and his whole H.S. experience
changed right around, because he started to get a future looking
perspective.

Agreed, and there's even mo Different people mature at different rates in
diferent areas.

Oh, yeah. Get the kids thinking about something other than what's
happening 5 minutes from now.

Not just the kids.....

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:

Remember the Village People, Kiss, Disco, the
song Muskrat Love, houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the song
My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on.

Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs comes to mind....

Actually, I don't think that people ae dumbed down
compared to whatever mythical time that they were
"smart".

There are many different kinds of intelligence. And education. For me, the
fundamental questions is something like: Is the
person/activity/education/institution productive or destructive? (IOW, does it
help people or hurt them?)

I agree. Every generation has had it's moments - both good and bad.

And the term "generation" is deceiving. At the same time the above sillinesses
were commonplace, others of the same "generation" were doing great things.

BUT! the individual tests can be "smartened" or
"dumbed". All that is up to us. We decide.

To a certain extent. Nobody has yet come up with a way to convince FCC to go
back to doing the testing themselves. In fact, all suggestions to improve the
writtens were rejected by FCC back in 1999.

We can submit more and more questions to FCC for the question pools, but FCC
retains the right to dump those it doesn't like.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:

Remember the Village People, Kiss, Disco, the
song Muskrat Love, houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the
song
My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on.

Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs comes to mind....

Actually, I don't think that people ae dumbed down
compared to whatever mythical time that they were
"smart".


One of my favorite songs when I was a teen-ager is Pleasant Valley Sunday:

The local rock group down the street
Is trying hard to learn their song
Seranade the weekend squire, who just came out to mow his lawn

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Charcoal burning everywhere
Rows of houses that are all the same
And no one seems to care

See Mrs. Gray she's proud today because her roses are in bloom
Mr. Green he's so serene, He's got a t.v. in every room

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Here in status symbol land
Mothers complain about how hard life is
And the kids just don't understand

Creature comfort goals
They only numb my soul and make it hard for me to see
My thoughts all seem to stray, to places far away
I need a change of scenery

Ta Ta Ta...

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Charcoal burning everywhere
Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Here in status symbol land

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday

That song was a completely anti-social, anti-success song, according to my
parents, grandparents, etc. Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now.

Kim W5TIT

In article , "Kim"
writes:

Subject: For those that are against the morse removal
From: "Kim"
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:04:21 -0500

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Dwight Stewart
writes:

Remember the Village People, Kiss, Disco, the
song Muskrat Love, houses filled with incense, chopper motorcycles, the
song
My Ding-a-Ling, Elton John's sunglasses, and so on.

Dave Barry's Book of Bad Songs comes to mind....

Actually, I don't think that people ae dumbed down
compared to whatever mythical time that they were
"smart".

One of my favorite songs when I was a teen-ager is Pleasant Valley Sunday:

Pseudo-performed by the Monkees

The local rock group down the street
Is trying hard to learn their song
Seranade the weekend squire, who just came out to mow his lawn

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Charcoal burning everywhere
Rows of houses that are all the same
And no one seems to care

See Mrs. Gray she's proud today because her roses are in bloom
Mr. Green he's so serene, He's got a t.v. in every room

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Here in status symbol land
Mothers complain about how hard life is
And the kids just don't understand

Creature comfort goals
They only numb my soul and make it hard for me to see
My thoughts all seem to stray, to places far away
I need a change of scenery

Ta Ta Ta...

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Charcoal burning everywhere
Another Pleasant Valley Sunday
Here in status symbol land

Another Pleasant Valley Sunday

That song was a completely anti-social, anti-success song, according to my
parents, grandparents, etc.

Good heavens, it was from a "manufactured" music group that was about a
saccharine as could be imagined at the time.

The song is really an anti-conformity ditty, loosely derived from Malvina
Reynolds' "Little Boxes" and others of that ilk.

Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now.

How?

--

The Monkees' did give us at least one legitimate decent song, although not
directly. "I'm A Believer" was a throwaway of 30+ years ago until Smash Mouth
covered it for the film "Shrek" and showed what could be done with that
material in talented hands.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim"
writes:


The song is really an anti-conformity ditty, loosely derived from Malvina
Reynolds' "Little Boxes" and others of that ilk.

Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now.

How?


Oh, I think many today--even me--are quite involved and disolved with
keeping ourselves happy with material things. While I am not a keep up with
the Jones' kind of person (i.e., unaffected by "status" symbols), I do find
amusement in "things" more than I used to. I used to be happy just to watch
ants...

Kim W5TIT

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim"

writes:


The song is really an anti-conformity ditty, loosely derived from
Malvina
Reynolds' "Little Boxes" and others of that ilk.

Yet, quite prophetic when looking back now.

How?

Oh, I think many today--even me--are quite involved and disolved with
keeping ourselves happy with material things. While I am not a keep up
with
the Jones' kind of person (i.e., unaffected by "status" symbols), I do
find
amusement in "things" more than I used to. I used to be happy just to
watch
ants...

Ah - good explanation! And observation...

Here's another one for ya...

From 1972-1976 I attended a large urban university. The big thing back
then
was "nonconformity" to the rules of the "establishment", particularly in
manners of slang, clothes and haircut.

After a while, though, it became clear that we'd simply traded one form of
conformity for another, and that we "nonconformists" pretty much dressed
alike,
talked alike, and had similar haircuts.

The university gave us more than schooling - we were actually educated,
often
by experiences that seemed minor at the time.

73 de Jim, N2EY




Far out Dude !!!

Dan/W4NTI