Yes a post stating what it takes to learn CW and stating causes of failure
is indeed free of spin. If I had wanted to discuss the pro/cons of CW, as I
have in other posts, I would have done so.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Clint" rattlehead@computronDOTnet wrote in message
...
OH, I doubt that very seriously.
You made that comment free of slant in either direction? in a
discussion of pro/con referring to CW testing, and you're placing
a post saying "oh, it's so easy, just take the time and do it",
and it's suppose to be "free of spin"?

please sell me some ocean front property in kansas while
you're at it.

Clint
KB5ZHT


"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
. com...


Please note that my reply, in this case, was not an argument either for
or
against keeping the CW testing. It was simply a comment on learning.
Therefore your response is irrelevant to this particular comment. If
you
wish to debate effectively, responses need to be related to the
statement.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Clint" wrote ...

and just fill in the blanks as to what a N*** is, and we'll see if I was
guilty of calling you an inflammatory and insulting name.
__________________________________________________ ________

My Polish ancestors know very well what the word "Nazi" means. Many of them
met the real ones sixty years ago and didn't survive. You seem to use the
word with abandon, without having a single clue as to what it *really*
means, and to whom it refers.

Arnie -
KT4ST

Arnie Macy wrote:
"Mike Coslo" wrote ...

Hey, Arnie! If "personal character attacks are an admission of defeat, why
don't you ask Clint about calling us N***'s? He must really be admitting
defeat if he both calls us that *and* invokes Godwin's law.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Many of my ancestors met the "real" Nazis and never survived. I think too
many people (including Clint) use the term without really knowing what
implication it truly has. As to me admitting defeat, he is just exercising
wishful thinking.

Yup, no one who had any real dealing with them personally, or through
family would ever spout that off. That's why Godwin's law is what it is.

We can have plenty of fun in here arguing with each other without
resorting to that.

Think about it Clint.

- Mike KB3EIA -

My Polish ancestors know very well what the word "Nazi" means. Many of
them
met the real ones sixty years ago and didn't survive. You seem to use the
word with abandon, without having a single clue as to what it *really*
means, and to whom it refers.

Arnie -
KT4ST


AH, that was what you were referring to... well, youre definition of
"abandon"
seems to differ from mine, as I used it once and only once and that was
referring to the really extreme, hardline CW pro-testing crowd.

Um, you said your polish ANCESTORS knew the national socialists in wwII
germany... as in, not *you*... so, therefore, I will assume you don't know
what it *really* means, nor do you have a clue or to whom it refers;
by the very same definition; therefore, YOU are disqualified as the
judge of same.

If you have been hiding in a cave for the last many years and didn't bring
yourself out into the sunlight and fresh oxegen long enough to know
what the reference means, then i'll educate you. It was a symbolic
reference to any group, such as the brown shirts of the aforementioned
group, and ultimately the national socialist party itself that ascended to
power, of ramming thier radical ideas down people throats without
regard to anything but it's own desire and wishes, no matter how
useful, unuseful or down right malevolent.

/education

Clint
KB5ZHT

Many of my ancestors met the "real" Nazis and never survived. I think too
many people (including Clint) use the term without really knowing what
implication it truly has. As to me admitting defeat, he is just
exercising
wishful thinking.

Arnie -
KT4ST


well, this argument, like all of the PCTA arguments, is easy to knock over
the fence and make a home run out of... right out of the ballpark, so here
goes...

if you want to claim knowledge and right of discussion on a matter due to
your lineage OR your association proximity to somebody that actually
MET a person/group/insert noun of choice, then allow me to
inform you that I had an uncle that actually served in the european theater
as well as one that served in the south pacific against the japanese.
A little closer to me in age than a grandfather, greatgrandfather, or third
cousin twice removed on your mother's side sevearl generations back
by marriage to the local meat butcher or whatever. Until the passing
of my uncle who served in europe (and god bless, didn't get killed),
I was able to speak directly to him on the matter and got first hand
knowledge.

And know for one more bit of educational matter, if your cranium has
the capacity to absorb data at this rate..... if the learning process
of the human race were limited to contemporary times, and there
were no history books (as socialists would love dream of), and
there were no processes by which a person could be educated
to more than his 5 senses could teach him, than civilization could
not exist; we would never advance to one digree, to the nth degree,
to NO point whatsoever if the learning process weren't available
to us to discover that which we haven't found to be true
with our own experience. You would not be aware that this is
but one planet in a 9-planet solar system; that one hundred
million plus one hundred million equals TWO hundred million...
or any other fact or detail that could not be learned in a single
solatary person's lifetime on thier own.

So don't try to claim that a person can't know anything unless
he or she saw it for themselves, and couldn't learn it through
thier elders. It quickly makes you appear as though you don't
understand the process of education and, therefore, must
have NONE yourself.

Clint
KB5ZHT

Wow, I never knew that. Thanks for the lesson. /sarcasm


your welcome.

/sarcasm

"Clint" wrote in part ...

If you have been hiding in a cave for the last many years and didn't bring
yourself out into the sunlight and fresh oxegen long enough to know what the
reference means, then i'll educate you. It was a symbolic reference to any
group, such as the brown shirts of the aforementioned group, and ultimately
the national socialist party itself that ascended to power, of ramming thier
radical ideas down people throats without regard to anything but it's own
desire and wishes, no matter how useful, unuseful or down right malevolent.
__________________________________________________ __________________

What a complete and total jerk you are. If you had even one shred of
decency, or you had family members that had died at the hands of the Nazis
(as I have) -- you would *never* use the term in the above context.

Arnie -
KT4ST

Clint, not only can Dave be the smuggest of PCTAs on r.r.a.p., but he
has a certain penchant for obtuseness. He is a master of not
understanding whatever it is that isn't going his way.

Brian

"Clint" rattlehead@computronDOTnet wrote in message ...
actually, it was my tale and he correctly read
between the lines; he knew EXACTLY what
I was meaning to say.

Clint
KB5ZHT


Not so, Farnsworth. There is nothing about a PCTA in the tale anywhere.
You continue to do your reading between the lines.

Dave K8MN

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:

Dick Carroll wrote in message ...
Robert wrote:

"Dick Carroll" wrote

I am capable of passing any sort of radio traffic by way of
radiotelgraphy,

I'd like to see you pass a weather satellite photo fax via
radiotelegraphy....

Uh,, Bob, that isn't traffic, It's *data*. I guess if you were really
familiar with radio
you;d know that, wouldn't you?

Uhhh, DICK, you should know that weather data can be passed via many
modes, and that satellite imagery is referred to as wefax or wxsat.

Typically, what is called "DATA" is RTTY.


No, Brian, digital information that is not analog voice is generally known as data
tansmission.

Sorry, senior.

But all that is old technology. Today, we get our weather via
wideband, though you're free to play with UKMO and NAM transmissions.

I guess you missed the entire point that WEFAX isn't in any circumstance handled by Morse
code. That is reserved for text communications or coded letter groups.

Poor DICK. I guess you missed the entire point that useful satellite
information could be sent via Morse/CW, if you were willing to develop
the protocol and the overlay grids, similar to the old gridded radar
bulletins.

For what its worth (FWIW), real satellite data isn't pictures, isn't
FAX. It is rows and columns of pixels, each with a value ranging from
zero to 255, seven layers deep. They are formatted into data groups,
and 'puter programs display and/or animate the data with various
enhancement curves (algorithms) which make the DATA more useful.

which I learned as a requirement of my licensure as a
ham radio operator. There is no reason for you to be exempted from the
same.

Well, at least you finally admit that it's "I had to do it, you
should too."

The difference is, I know why. You obviously don't.

Couldn't be much of a difference since you obviously don't know why.
And I know why you don't. You're simply ignorant about weather comms.
Stick to things you know, such as CW and more CW. When you're done
talking about CW, you could switch to Morse so you don't sound like a
broken record.

More gibberish and attempted bafflegab. That's all you know so you stick to it.

Gibberish and what? I know meteorology and weather comms. I'll stick
to that and you can deliver the "bafflegab."

And FWIW, radar image intensity bulletins used to be transmitted via
tty, and the receiver had to plot it on a predetermined overlay for
that particular radar station. So the concept is there for satellite
data transmission, but was never implemented. So go and create a
satellite overlay grid, then encode satellite IR temps (if you can),
and get cracking on Robert's idea.

See, you CAN use CW to send useful information rather than just ARRL
numbergrams.

73, Brian

Piffle. THAT is an obsolete use of Morse code.

Using it to pass message traffic when radio conditons are such that it works well but
other available modes won't is another matter, as you know.

I'll take wideband any day. You take "bafflegab."

"Arnie Macy" wrote in message
...
"Clint" wrote ...

well, this argument, like all of the PCTA arguments, is easy to knock
over
the fence and make a home run out of... right out of the ballpark, so
here
goes...

if you want to claim knowledge and right of discussion on a matter due to
your lineage OR your association proximity to somebody that actually MET a
person/group/insert noun of choice, then allow me to inform you that I
had
an uncle that actually served in the european theater as well as one that
served in the south pacific against the japanese. A little closer to me
in
age than a grandfather, greatgrandfather, or third cousin twice removed on
your mother's side sevearl generations back by marriage to the local meat
butcher or whatever. Until the passing of my uncle who served in europe
(and
god bless, didn't get killed), I was able to speak directly to him on the
matter and got first hand knowledge.

And know for one more bit of educational matter, if your cranium has the
capacity to absorb data at this rate..... if the learning process of the
human race were limited to contemporary times, and there were no history
books (as socialists would love dream of), and there were no processes by
which a person could be educated to more than his 5 senses could teach
him,
than civilization could not exist; we would never advance to one digree,
to
the nth degree, to NO point whatsoever if the learning process weren't
available to us to discover that which we haven't found to be true with
our
own experience. You would not be aware that this is but one planet in a
9-planet solar system; that one hundred million plus one hundred million
equals TWO hundred million... or any other fact or detail that could not
be
learned in a single solatary person's lifetime on thier own.

So don't try to claim that a person can't know anything unless he or she
saw
it for themselves, and couldn't learn it through thier elders. It quickly
makes you appear as though you don't understand the process of education
and, therefore, must have NONE yourself.
__________________________________________________ _____________________

Clint,

This is not a game where you hit home runs. This is a serious subject.
I'm
a few years older than you, so it stands to reason that I've had the
opportunity to speak directly with many of the members of my family who
survived the Nazis' attempt to exterminate them in Poland. I listened to
them many times over as a young man and understand fully the meaning of
the
word. I don't subscribe to your loose definition, and neither do the many
people who lived under that tyranny. When you use it to describe those
that
are in favor of code testing in the ARS, you cheapen the meaning, and
therefore the memories of all those people who did not survive. Please,
think about this before you use the word again. That's all that I ask.

Arnie -
KT4ST





Arnie,

This Clint character uses this sort of 'arguement' on everything he does.
Yet he claims 'knowledge' of the subject after saying basically that unless
you were there, you know nothing about it.

He shoots himself in the foot here as he does with the pro code testing
commentary. In fact his arguement proves he is just being a world class
smart ass.

In otherwords let it go Arnie. May I express my sincere regrets that you
have such a knowledge of those NAZI *******s.

Dan/W4NTI