N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article ,



(Larry Roll K3LT) writes:



I think that the most likely scenario is that they will do as you suggest,
and distill it down to two license classes, General and Extra. All current
Techs would be "grandfathered" to the General class, and the Extra will
remain the same, sans Element 1(a). This would be the easiest change
to accomplish from an administrative standpoint, and they wouldn't have
to even bother renaming the remaining license classes, which would only
risk causing resentment among current Extras. There could be, at most,
a requirement for current Techs to pass another written element, but the
grandfathering would be an easier fix.


ARRL asked for something very similar back in 1998 and FCC said no. (ARRL's
proposal would have given Novices and Tech Pluses instant upgrades to

General).

Such an instant upgrade has these problems:

1) A lot of screaming about "no giveaways"

Let's test your premise here, Jim. Would you support a one class system


in which all amateurs that have passed Novice, Tech, General or (of
course) Extra get an "instant upgrade" to Extra?


No. In fact, not just "no" but "HELL, NO!!"

Okay, now I know a little more where you stand on this. I wasn't sure if
you were being DA on it or what..... Wait a second... DA means Devil's
Advocate... other interpretations might not be so kind! 8^)


snip

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham *must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
.com...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
I'm still trying to decide what to do. I do a fair bit of contesting,
and KB3EIA is quite a mouthfull at those times. It's not too bad CW
wise
(tho I haven't done CW contesting - maybe if I ever get good enough)

- Mike KB3EIA -


The way to get good at it is to jump in and do it anyway. The way to
start
is to listen to one station over and over until you finally pick out the
information and then to through your call sign in. Also never hesitate
to
send "PS QRS" when necessary. You can even specify the speed with "PS
QRS
10" or whatever you are comfortable with. Most will slow down.

I'm not particularly good at it myself but am running about 50% CW
contacts
on the ongoing California QSO party.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Good for you Dee D. I played in it myself. Got 147 phone and 194 on CW.

Dan/W4NTI


Although it was running about even most of the contest, later the voice
bands picked up and I ended with 95 voice and 78 CW.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"WA8ULX" wrote in message
...
What is NCI? it's the group that opposes morse code testing.

They are also the Group which doesnt have a CLUE about anything else
except
give it to me for nothing. These are probably the same group that will
start
NWI. As a matter of fact, one of there great supporters, and long time
Members,
has all ready suggested that the written be Dumbed Down even more.


ah, hm.. and I thought you didn't care about the CW testing issue anymore.
Lots of locked up hate and resentment there..... looks as though it's pushed
you to extreme exaggeration of the facts and in some cases false
characterizations.

Clint

--
"All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly
as often as necessary. In no case would it have been possible, once
the deed was done, to prove that any falsification had taken place...

....it was not even forgery. It was merely the substitution of one piece
of nonsense for another. Most of the material that you were dealing
with had no connection with anything in the real world, not even the
kind of connection that is contained in a direct lie. Statistics were just
as much a fantasy in thier original version as in thier rectified version."

- The totalitarian world of George Orwell's 1984
(or is it the slander & lie campaign strategy of
today's liberals???)

--

Sure can Clint. And you just made my point.

Dan/W4NTI



And what point would THAT be? the hams that did this were legally
licensed, had been for some time, and passed at least 13 wmp code
tests. So much for the "yahoo filter" theory.

Clint

--
"All history was a palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly
as often as necessary. In no case would it have been possible, once
the deed was done, to prove that any falsification had taken place...

....it was not even forgery. It was merely the substitution of one piece
of nonsense for another. Most of the material that you were dealing
with had no connection with anything in the real world, not even the
kind of connection that is contained in a direct lie. Statistics were just
as much a fantasy in thier original version as in thier rectified version."

- The totalitarian world of George Orwell's 1984
(or is it the slander & lie campaign strategy of
today's liberals???)

--
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...


The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code requirements,
ergo Morse is not really relevant to this thread.


They may or may not; if the FCC decides that no "no further change in
the
license structure is required at this time" then of course that will be
the
final
word on *that* matter, and we'll accept it and go on since they are the
ones that have the final say. I just couldn't help but notice how
certain
ones
in here I think have such an overpowering agenda regarding the CW
part of the testing that it tends to take them over and govern, or at
least
seriously influence, everything they have to remark about in ham radio.

I'm a general class operator; I realize by definition that means I had
to
show knowledge in certain areas to prove I deserved recieving the next
higher license class than tech-plus; however, I did not demonstrate
enough
skill and knowledge to warrant recieving the advanced class license.
Therefore,
advanced class operators *should* know more than I do, or at least as
much.

That brings us to the sad truth that if an *extra* class license
operator
doesn't
know how to calculate the length of a walf wave dipole on 40m (or
whatever
frequency), that is a serious issue. I say that because calculating the
length of
an antenna, especially a halfwave dipole of ALL things, is and always
WILL
be so basic to ham radio that it should be on page one of chapter one of
every study guide ever printed. Such matters is why I put such a strong
emphasis on putting more priority on written testing than that of the
skills
of
translating a CW transmission.

Sad thing is, most the time I get on 75 meters and begin discussing ham
radio
tech stuff, there is usually one heckler that harangues you about it and
makes
light of the fact that you were talking about ham radio stuff and not
what
the
weather was like on a day 58 years ago while an old man sat on a porch
and peeled potatoes in the hot summer sun... true story. I actually was
on
the
airwaves a few weeks ago discussing the pros and cons how how to set up
a new 75 meter inverted V I was going to make at home... and as soon as
I finished the conversation with the other ham and he went off the air,
a
couple
of hams got in there and began talking to one another BASHING me for
doing
so... can you imagine???

Clint

In article , Dick Carroll
writes:

The FCC's goal, obviously, is to get as much of the administrative
burden of the ARS licensing system off their backs as possible, so I
look for them to do just that.


I don't think so. FCC's work at admininistring the ARS licensing can't
get to much a level than it currently is.

Here's about what I look for:

1) Combine Novice/Tech/Tech Plus into one license, probably Tech, with
some amount of lower HF band Fone and CW/Digital access. Might even
use the old Novice segments for their digital/CW segment. After all,
it's still the 'entry level' license.

2) Probably drop element 1 for Generals.

3) Leave Advanced alone and let attritition take care of it.

4) Leave Extra alone with a 5wpm code test. Should be 12wpm but
I doubt they'll back up at this late date.

I don't expect them to do this nor anything else before the
next rules review is due.

Dick:

Of course, there's always the remote possibility that the FCC will
take the easiest course of action, which is to make no further changes
to the ARS licensing structure and requirements at all. However,
this would seem to be almost impossible for them to get away with,
in light of the language of the Restructuring R&O. One can always
hope, but I'm 99% sure we'll see code testing go away. Of course,
when it does, Carl and the NCI will then be in the "hot seat" -- since
we'll now be able to sit back and wait for the technical/digital
revolution they've promised all along. Personally, I hope they're right,
but I don't have that kind of luck.

73 de Larry, K3LT

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham
*must*
know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

73 de Larry, K3LT

ah, hm.. and I thought you didn't care about the CW testing issue anymore.

I dont but your just to Dumped Down to see the TREND.

Larry Roll K3LT wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Can anyone *prove* to me that the Extra written contains things a ham

*must*

know to operate on the Extra-only subbands?

Nope! There is really not much reason to go from General to Extra
beyond personal satisfaction!

- Mike KB3EIA -


Mike:

In the past (the Pre-Restructuring Era), the reason for upgrading was that
increased operating privileges were the reward for gaining increased
technical knowledge and operating skill. The ARS seems to have taken
a clue from the rest of our dumbed-down society and abandoned this
philosophy.

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in
link.net:

Clint, Clint, Clint. She was making a point of discussing the time.
Not the code, per se. She said all the 1X2s were issued BEFORE the
code was dropped. Do you have a comprehension problem too?

Dan/W4NTI

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in message
...
Exactly.

That was my point; make a post about back up batteries for
black-out ham radio operations, and you'll get them making
CW test remarks about it.

Make a post about feedline pro's and con's, and they'll
devolve it back to morse code testing.

Talk about what is the best background noise reducing
handheld radio for use on the toilet when you have
diahrrea.. and yep, it's all about morse code testing again.

No matter what, follow a thread long enough and they'll find
a way to use the most twisted path of logic to blame
NCI and the reduction & removal of morse code testing.

Was it, in fact, to blame for the shuttle disaster?

I digress.

Clint

"Alun Palmer" wrote in message
...
Mike Coslo wrote in
et:

Alun Palmer wrote:

"Clint" rattlehead at computron dot net wrote in
:


Man you got that right Mike. It was that way, decades ago.
The extra used to mean something. Now it means squat.

Don't believe me? Look at the before and after code gutting.
I was going to get a fancy 1X2 years ago. Glad I didn't now.

Dan/W4NTI

All the 1x2 sequentially assigned calls were gone long before
the 20wpm code was dropped.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


The real observation here is to note a complaint about extra
class hams not knowing
what the length of a 1/2 wave dipole was on a given frequency;
has nothing to do
with sending and recieving morse code skill.

Kinda showed your colors there.

Clint





It was a dead giveaway. Anyone who thinks that 20wpm code
operating skill means you know all about dipoles has a serious
problem that no amount of discussion will ever change.

The new requirements *probably* will have no Morse code
requirements, ergo Morse is not really relevant to this
thread.

That an extra might have no idea about the length of a half
wave dipole
at 40 meters - or more importantly, precisely no idea on how to
calculate it - indicates a more serious problem to me.

- Mike KB3EIA -



But one that has nothing to do with 20wpm, which I didn't introduce
into the discussion






It looked to me like the post was saying no Extra would have been ignorant
about dipoles when the code test speed was 20wpm. If it meant something
else it might have been saying something logical, HI!

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...

And what I'm thinking is that unless it means something again, they
might as well get rid of it. That little sliver of operating frequencies
is not worth it, if increased privileges are the measuring stick.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Actually, the differences in privs from General to Extra are substantial.
With the FCC no longer issuing Advanced licenses, the only way to
gain access to the "Advanced sub-bands" is to upgrade to Extra.

I'd say that's a pretty good incentive.

73,
Carl - wk3c