In article , "JAMES HAMPTON"
writes:

"Len Over 21" wrote in message
...
In article , "JAMES HAMPTON"
writes:

Heck, anyone who has used one of those old green machines knows how they
were. Folks should be very grateful for the modern pc. The electronics
are
far more rugged than the old teletypes. I've often stared at the 100
word
per minute mechanical beasties clanking away and wondered how they could
do
that without flying apart. Of course, they did break down now and then
...


"Green?" All the ones I've ever worked with were black (old Model
15 to 19) or different shades of Teletype Corporation gray (Model
28 or 33)... :-)

Teletype Corporation ought to get a standing ovation for some
excellent mechanical design in those old teleprinters. They were
robust performers that went on for days at a time needing only to
be fed paper and (once in a while) a new ribbon.

The old 60 WPM units were tried out at 75 WPM on a few Army
circuits in 1955. MTBF went to hell at that speed and those circuits
had very high maintenance turn-over. Restored to 60 WPM speeds,
they continued on as if nothing had happened. Used the old type
cage structure of the manual/electric typewriters.

The "stunt box" (literally a box of type) used on the newer 100
WPM models did awesome things, true, fun to watch while
waiting for a program's answer back. Never had one "lock up" in
some strange mode, though, that including the old all-caps 60
WPM machines with Caps/Figs keys.

By 1980 the matrix printer was IN for anyone needing text
throughput, honking out 300 WPM with just a polite buzz instead
of the clatter-bang of the mechanical teleprinters. My little Epson
MX-80 (purchased in 1980) is still operational but it can't be given
away in this age of inkjet printers that tosses out an entire page
of text in 5 seconds (draft mode, black and white). The only sound
from the "old" HP 722 inkjet printer is the paper-advance stepping
motor; inkjets themselves being inaudible.

But, the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) isn't really
interested in communications per se, is it? ARS is all about
HOW the communications is done, not the comms' content. :-)

Most Best Holiday Greetings,



Hello, Len

To some amateurs the how *is* important. Witness PSK, moonbounce, and other
stuff. Anyone can grab a microphone and talk.

:-) Right..."anyone can grab a microphone and talk..." but so many
forget to listen to what they are saying after they remember to push
the PTT button. :-)

The first recorded and witnessed moonbounce was done by the U.S.
Army in the 1940s. The first witnessed and recorded phase shift
keying was done a long time ago, has been done so much that it
needs deep research to find out who did it first, academia, business,
or military. Frequency shift keying is even older.

Somehow, a lot of folks get
caught up in the code vs no-code argument that is getting *really* old.

Agreed. :-) But Test Element 1 is still in the U.S. amateur regs
and many longe-tyme hamateurs are furious that anyone has the
temerity to remove that beloved code test.

Seems there used to be an am vs ssb argument back in the 60s as well.

Why? "Anyone can grab a microphone and talk..." :-)

However, that *how* it is done is important if we wish to further ourselves.

Yes, it's terribly important for all hamateurs to be the very best
kind of morseman they can be. Tradition, the glory, the honor,
being able to communicate all over the world with the same
"language" and demonstrate the "unique good will of amateurs"
to bring about world peace and stuff like that through simple
short transient "contacts" on CW.

Have a merry Christmas, Len, and try to come up with a new argument next
year, hear?

You too, Jim...all around. :-)

Right...just as soon as I go down to the technical seminar down at
the Legion Hall to get all the details on building that simple CW rig
made from recycled 1990s telebision sets that poor impovrished
third-world countries can use for communications to end their
starvation problems.

I don't think a "Tuna Tin Two" is a solution, even with the best
2N2222 transistors. Starving folks want the tuna, not the tin.

No doubt everything will be solved worldwide by using Morse Runner
to practice "radiosport" radiotelegraphy. I will stay tuned. :-)

Happy holidays,

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , "Casey" writes:

how the tales of "I was a one-of-a-kind" super hero

As I read Hans' and Jim's and others' stories of their USN, USCG and Merchant
Marine experiences, one thing that is clear to me is that they do *not* claim
to be "one-of-a-kind" at all. Rather, they are simply relating their
experiences as part of a community. That's why the statue of a single sailor
in Washington DC can express so much.

Absolutely correct. You can empathize after all your years of
experience at sea. Understood.

Tsk. 'Radio' begins and ends solely on the sea? What of LAND
where morse code was born, raised, and elevated to a magnificent
art form before radio was ever proved?

Subject: Awesome trainer!
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 12/13/2004 12:44 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article .com, "William"
writes:

"But, the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) isn't really
interested in communications per se, is it? ARS is all about
HOW the communications is done, not the comms' content. :-)


Most Best Holiday Greetings,


"

All in the preparation for "THE BIG ONE." That one message where they
save the Titanic, the Hindenberg, Johnstown, etc.

Unfortunately, when it's time to send "THE BIG ONE" they have been so
focused on mode that no one will be left to hear them.

Irrelevant. The MEDIUM is the massage, therefore anyone who
wants operating privileges on the amateur bands below 30 MHz
MUST take that important code test!

Maybe a massage WOULD fix your problems, Lennie, but I doubt it.

And the Code test is an FCC requirement.

Morsemen WILL manufacture stories of beeping derring-do whether
the morse test is eliminated or kept ad infinitum. That's a given.

As opposed to the ad-nauseum repetitions of the "Back in 1953..." stories
we get from you...???

When space aliens invade the earth in their huge frying saucers,
morsemen will Save The World using the unbreakable morse code.

Morsemen are the gods of radio. Long may they wave.

Nope....They're just better than you...in 1953 and ever since.

Steve, K4YZ

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

What part of the US Navy did he serve in?

What part of the US military did YOU serve in?

ex-RA16408336

What your amateur radio callsign, Len?

Ach, ja, der Gruppenfuhrer uf das Raddio Kops demands "to see
papers!" :-)

Didn't you just ask for Jim's papers? :-) :-)

Why? Can't he put them in the recycling barrel along with other
used paper?

Maybe you had difficulty understanding the question: Didn't you ask
about Jim's military service?

Don't let your "diplomatic training" interfere with your attempted
overthrow of the First Amendment that prohibits us U.S. citizens
from discussing FEDERAL LAW AND REGULATION.

It is "Federal law and regulation".

Ah yes, herr gruppenfuhrer is now with the Syntax Squad. :-)

Well, what's with the CAPS, Foghorn?

You are still stuck on the fantasy that you have this little
fraternal order where You and Your Kind are the "only" ones
who can "make rules." Therefore, in your fantasyland vision,
all who are not licensed cannot discuss a damn thing about
amateur radio. Tsk. Secretary Powell might have frowned on
your fantasy world dicta. Maybe Condie Rice will buy it? :-)

Naw, Len. Me and my kind are licensed amateur radio operators.

Isn't that sweet? Do you want a nice gold star on your
certificate (suitable for framing)?

It really isn't necessary.

You aren't.

Absolutely true. First thing you've gotten right so far...

That's simply false. I got the "Federal law and regulation" correct.
I got the part about me and my kind correct. I got the part about you
asking Jim for his military "papers" correct.

You can discuss and have discussed.

And everyone can be sure that herr Heil will be in there with the
"you ain't got no ham license!" :-)

If you can't take it, get a ham license or don't read the posts.

Heil is utterly predictable. Can't address any subject thread and
always tries for the misdirect.

Let's see...the thread title is "Awesome trainer" yet there you are,
asking Jim in which part of the military he served. Would you like to
discuss the awesome morse trainer? Has it helped you?

You get quite a number of things about amateur radio incorrect.

I'm sure you'd like that to be true, but YOU are incorrect.

I'd actually be happier if you didn't get so many things about amateur
radio and other things wrong, but you do get them wrong.

I didn't work for Secretary
Powell and he had nothing to do with my amateur radio operation.

I didn't think so. Powell has diplomacy. You don't.

Powell deals with thugs the same way I have but Mr. Powell wasn't at
State when I was. Deal with it.

How did you foul that up?

Foul what up? I didn't "foul anything up," sweetums.

Your memory is short: The whole Secretary Powell thing which you wrote
and then snipped.

You keep manufacturing incidents that don't, didn't exist. :-)

You bring them into existence, then try to slip them under the rug.

Good for you, Len. You didn't need an "Awesome Trainer" or an amateur
license to get into the Signal Corps.

Never said I needed some "Awesome trainer."

Can't you stick with the thread?

Again, you are manufacturing an incident that didn't happen.

The thread didn't happen?

You do that consistently.

Do what consistently?

Is your objective in posting here to get back into the Signal Corps?

No. What is YOUR "objective?" :-)

I don't have a single objective. I'm a radio amateur posting in an
amateur radio newsgroup. I choose to post here.

Tsk. All you seem to do is pick on certain communicators that
you don't like and then make like you "run" the show. :-)

It hasn't been established that you are a communicator. You certainly
aren't in "the show".

Sure it was, Len. I'm sure that when you first began doing such work,
you were strictly a rank beginner.

Yes, I had rank. No, I was not a "beginner."

Yes, you were rank and a beginner.

That's fine, old timer. I'll be happy to carry on for some time after
you are able to be responsible for much of anything.

I'm sure you would like that...it is shared with the trashman, you
know, the Avenging Angle of the newsgroup. :-)

I'd like that? That isn't what I wrote but it is the nature of living.
There were people before you and there'll be people after you. You were
doing things when I was in diapers. I'll be doing things when you are
in diapers.

Things like that
even out. There are, of course, things which don't even out. If you
become a beginner in amateur radio, there is no realistic way for you to
enjoy four decades or more in the game.

Tsk. Why is it SO necessary to do as YOU did?

It isn't necessary at all. I didn't state that it was necessary. I'm
stating that it isn't even possible.

Is your ego really that large that you evaluate everyone based on
your "accomplishments?" Must be.

Tell us again about your experiences in the military and in the civilian
world of electronics. Is your ego so large that you evaluate everyone
based on your "accomplishments"? It looks as if that is the case. The
only trouble is, your accomplishments don't mean much within amateur
radio, your target group.

Quite a number of guys get into
ham radio late in life. Many of them are exhuberant and quick learners.
They make hay while the sun shines. Your pile of hay is quite small and
it is beginning to mildew.

Tsk, tsk. More manufacturing of things. You have a very busy
insult factory going. Not a good thing for the image of U.S.
amateur radio, is it?

Don't worry about. You aren't involved in U.S. amateur radio or amateur
radio anywhere else.

That's right, Len, but don't get too far ahead of yourself. When and if
you ever obtain an amateur radio license, you'll be a rank beginner in
amateur radio.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Still trying to misdirect away from the thread,
aren't you? :-)

What are your feelings about the awesome morse trainer Hans brought up?

"Morse Runner" is a code contest simulator, is it not? The thread
also associated that with various others' military experience.

You can skip your military tales. All anyone needs do is check Google
for any of the myriad tellings.

Now you want to return to your (predictable) diatribe of "nyah,
nyah, you will be a 'rank beginner' in amateur radio," yadada,
yadada, yadada.

I didn't say that you will be a rank beginner, Len. You'd first have to
actually obtain an amateur radio license. The likelihood of that
happening is not great. If and when you ever do so, then you'll be a
beginner in amateur radio.

You have not yet attained that status.

What "status?" :-)

THAT status. :-) :-)

Why is it so NECESSARY to have that federal license in order
to discuss the test elements for ENTERING amateur radio?

You've discussed. You aren't taken seriously.

There's plenty to know which can't be picked up in a day.

Oh my! Are years and years of "hard work and study" needed,
oh mighty god of radio?

As in any other endeavor, years of hard work and study are needed to get
it right. Some guys never do. Some pick up some or most. Some guys
are great ops.

NO ONE can be as good or experienced as yourself...you've
implied that about you for years and years in here. :-)

Actually, I've never implied any such thing though I'm currently 41
years more experienced than you. :-) :-)

If you don't adhere to regs, procedure, protocol, etc., you'll be at
best marked as a green op. Carry on with that and you'll be known as a
lid.

Oh, my, YES, by all means use the Proper Proceedure. Say "hi hi"
in voice instead of laughing...report all signal strengths as "599"...
and so forth.

When I read your stuff, I'm not saying "hi hi". If your sigs were any
weaker, you'd be receiving.

Who said anything about "not adhering to regulations?!?"

I did.

Have you prepared some kind of court order for arrest based on
your suppostiion of the future?

My "suppostiion" is that you'll never hit the airwaves as a radio
amateur.

Carry it to the extreme of breaking FCC regs and the Commission can
"fire" you.

Oh, my, der gruppenfuhrer suddenly morphs into Riley Hollingsworth!

Wrong. Nowhere did I state that I'm the FCC.

So...if I laugh out loud on voice on the ham bands, I'm breaking
some kind of regulation? :-)

Under most circumstances, if you show up on the ham bands at all, you're
breaking some kind of regulation.

Outrage? I'm not even close to outrage, especially when you remind me
that you're an outsider to amateur radio.

With your behavior, it's a wonder that anyone accessing this
newsgroup wants to get into U.S. amateur radio.

My behavior? Most non-ham readers of this group don't share your talent
as a walking Preparation H advert.

Just pace the sidelines as
you've done from the beginnings of your r.r.a.p. history.

Tsk. You should have put that as "all my life" instead of just some
kind of "history in r.r.a.p." :-)

Have you been doing this stuff with regard to amateur radio your entire
life?

No, wait. It must be RELIGIOUS THING with you. All without
ham licenses are some kind of "infidels?" Yes, that must be it.
You've gone on and on about that AMATEUR license as some
kind of "holy grail" or a "Mecca" to visit or similar.

I know plenty of folks without ham licenses with whom I get along fine.
None of them are trying to impose their views on the regulation of
amateur radio. Get used to it: It is just you.

You don't accept a whole career in radio-electronics as good for
anything, do you? Nope. You dismiss it. Spoils the hell out
your rant, doesn't it? :-)

Good for anything? Sure it was. It was good for jobs and paychecks.
It still didn't get you a pass into amateur radio. Don't be too hard on
yourself.

Let's see. You wanted to know which part of the military in which Jim
served.

Jim who? Tsk. You are trying to be Hall Monitor again?

The Jim to which you made your comment.

The question I posed to
you would be much more apropos in this venue.

No, NOT "apropo." The subject thread started out talking about
a new freeware called "Morse Runner," a CW contest simulator.

So your question to Jim concerned that software, huh?

I'm sure it is a nice computer program and well written.

Has it helped your morse speed?

However, I'd never be involved in the so-called "radiosport" of
making as many "contacts" as possible in a given amount of
time. That's not communicating anything.

So now you're an expert at something else in which you have no
experience.

That's just some kind of game.

It surely is.

I can get all sorts of computer games to play
with and so can everyone else.

Radio contesting isn't a computer game, Leonard. It takes place on the
air. Don't you get anything right?

Do I need an amateur radio license to run a GAME on a computer?

Did anyone state that you need one?

Absolutely NOT. Hundreds of thousands of unlicensed others do
that every day, most not even using any sort of "wireless" hookup.

Feel free to continue. You can even comment to the feds about how best
it should be regulated.

Do I need an amateur radio license to run a transmitter NOT on
the ham bands? No, that requires, for some radio services (but
not all), a COMMERCIAL license. Tsk, I've had one of those
since early 1956. :-)

I don't much care what you do with any transmitter not on the ham bands.

No, you keep coming back to what YOU think is "apropo," that
of constantly bothering about MY not having an amateur radio
license. That BOTHERS you since that's about all you can do,
bring that up in any thread NOT about that subject.

Sort of like your quizzing of Jim--the one which seemed to be about his
military service but which you now assure us was about a morse trainer?

That's awfully nice of you, Leonard. My mom is visiting out your way.
Perhaps I'll arrange it so that she, my sister, my niece and my nephews
can drop by and sing some carols for you. That might bring some cheer
into your existence.

"Cheer?" Try some industrial floor cleaner instead of laundry soap.
They can scrub the oil spots out of the garage floor. Minimum wage
even if their Green Cards are up to date.

We can talk about why your garage floor is so soiled some other time.

Meanwhile, you keep on your wonderful, warm-spirited recruiting
campaign to entice newcomers to U.S. amateur radio by saying
they will all be "rank beginners!"

All newcomers to any field of endeavor are beginners. If it chafes you,
tough.

The way you are going here there
won't be any worry about using up all the sequentially-assigned
call signs for years. :-)

Just worry about the one which might have been yours, old boy.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 wrote:

Morsemen are the gods of radio. Long may they wave.

I'm waving at you, Len, with all five digits of one hand. Remember
though that the wave is encrypted. There's a message in there for you
somewhere.

Dave K8MN

On 12 Dec 2004 21:24:01 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

snip

But, the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) isn't really
interested in communications per se, is it? ARS is all about
HOW the communications is done, not the comms' content. :-)


....As Marshall McLuhan said back in the 60s (while he was a Professor
at the University of Toronto) - "The Medium Is The Message"!



Most Best Holiday Greetings,



73, Leo

In article , "JAMES HAMPTON"
writes:

To some amateurs the how *is* important.

I would say that nowadays that's true for *most* hams.

In most of the developed world, the average person has a wide range of
communications options. Some are relatively new (cell phones with cameras in
them), others have been around a long time (Plain Old Telephone Service).
Almost all are tending downward in cost and upward in ease of use.

It wasn't that long ago that the average person had very few affordable
communications options outside of the US mail and Ma Bell. Sure, some folks
were hooked up with precursors to the Internet, TTY machines and even mobile
telephones, but those things were pretty much out of the reach of ordinary
middle-class people. In those times, ham radio offered communications that
weren't practical or affordable any other way.

For example, from the 1970s onward it used to be common around here for entire
families to get ham licenses in order to keep in touch via the local VHF/UHF
ham repeaters. Nowadays cell phones have just about eliminated that reason.
Lots of other examples.

Witness PSK, moonbounce, and
other stuff.

Yep. Like CW!

Of course there *are* times when ham radio is still the only practical or
available method of radio communications.

Anyone can grab a microphone and talk. Somehow, a lot of folks get
caught up in the code vs no-code argument that is getting *really* old.
Seems there used to be an am vs ssb argument back in the 60s as well.

Goes back into the '50s.

However, that *how* it is done is important if we wish to further ourselves.

If all amateur radio does is to emulate what is available other ways, it will
simply die out.

What we need to keep alive are the things that make amateur radio unique.

Like Morse Code.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: Awesome trainer!
From: Dave Heil
Date: 12/13/2004 3:14 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Len Over 21 wrote:

Don't let your "diplomatic training" interfere with your attempted
overthrow of the First Amendment that prohibits us U.S. citizens
from discussing FEDERAL LAW AND REGULATION.

It is "Federal law and regulation".

Ah yes, herr gruppenfuhrer is now with the Syntax Squad. :-)

Well, what's with the CAPS, Foghorn?

Just more of the "Do As I Say, Not Do As I Do" syndrome that Lennie
suffers from...When I do it for emphasis, it's "yelling" or violation of
"nettiquette".

Lennie put four capped words in a row together. Sounds like "yelling" and
violation of "nettiquette" to me...

But that's why Lennie's a scumbag...

Steve, K4YZ

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

What we need to keep alive are the things that make amateur radio unique.

Like Morse Code.

Absolutely!

And let's not forget other areas such as giving up automobiles
and going back to horsies and buggies...farmers plowing fields
behind animules...all those "XYLs" cooking from scratch on
cast-iron wood-fired stoves.

The Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society rides again! :-)

In article , Leo
writes:

On 12 Dec 2004 21:24:01 GMT, (Len Over 21) wrote:

snip

But, the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS) isn't really
interested in communications per se, is it? ARS is all about
HOW the communications is done, not the comms' content. :-)

...As Marshall McLuhan said back in the 60s (while he was a Professor
at the University of Toronto) - "The Medium Is The Message"!

To the mighty macho morsemen, "the medium is the massage."

:-)