I've got no problem with opposing viewpoints, but in the end, it's time
for MoveOn.Org to take its own advice and move on. That goes for the
MoveOn cheerleaders as well.

BOL, bb

I've got no problem with opposing viewpoints, but in the end, it's time
for MoveOn.Org to take its own advice and move on. That goes for the
MoveOn cheerleaders as well.

BOL, bb

I've got no problem with opposing viewpoints, but in the end, it's time
for MoveOn.Org to take its own advice and move on. That goes for the
MoveOn cheerleaders as well.

BOL, bb

I've got no problem with opposing viewpoints, but in the end, it's time
for MoveOn.Org to take its own advice and move on. That goes for the
MoveOn cheerleaders as well.

BOL, bb

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

Subject: K0HB Supports Terrorist Use Of GPS Net Against America
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 12/16/2004 4:26 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article . com, "K4YZ"
writes:

"The Shrub"...?!?!

Yes.

Hardly.

How? It's a nickname. If President Clinton can be called "Slick Willy", then
President Bush II can be called "Shrub". Or "W".

One of the most important freedoms we enjoy is the freedom to publicly
criticize and disagree with public officials, including the president.

Remember too that *he* works for and answers to *us*, not the other way around.


This nation has bandied-about it's "Don't Tread On Me" attitude
for since the fifties yet has gotten into the practice of tucking tail and
running when it get's slapped around a little bit.

What *are* you talking about?

Did this nation "tuck tail and run" from Korea? Vietnam? Western Europe?
Kuwait?

We finally have a President who slapped back.

Did he slap the right people?

There is currently *no* evidence that the SH regime had anything to do with any
terror attacks. Nor is there any evidence of "weapons of mass destruction" in
that country.

Afghanistan is a different story. Yet the masterminds of the 911 attacks were
allowed to escape from that country, by the very administration you admire so
much.

The USA has spent over 1000 servicepeople's lives, many more thousands of their
injuries, and hundreds of billions of dollars to overthrow and capture SH. Now
that country is a mess, with an estimated 100,000 dead from the war and its
aftermath. And ol' SH hasn't been formally charged with anything.

Now everyone is upset that
he actaully DID what he said he would do.

No. People are upset that the results aren't what they were promised. The
mission hasn't yet been accomplished, regardless of what some banner says.

If it's OK to call President Clinton "Slick Willy", then it's also OK to
call President Bush "the shrub".

And that's a fact.

"April Fool's Joke"...?!?!

Hans, you're an idiot or an Al-Queda supporter.

I don't think he's either.

I do.

Well, he's not. And that's a fact.

His gross disrespect for a sitting President

Is 100% legal, and in true red-blooded patriotic American fashion. One can
respect the office without respecting the man.

and obvious disdain for a
policy that is intended to deny potential adversaries the opportunity to use
our own systems against us speaks for itself.

It says he disagrees with the policy. Nothing more.

Shutting down GPS may cause more problems than it solves. That's a fact.

Hans is an idiot and an Al-Queda supporter.

That's just plain bull****. No other word for it.

His allegedly well-educated
mind could have more effectively expressed an opposing view of the
government's
policies without being disrespectful or insulting. He didn't. He went right
to the deminutives. Funny how he accuses me of that...............

You mean like "Slick Willy"?

How do I know this?

Because ONLY an idiot or an Al-Queda supporter could suggest that
making it difficult for terrorists to use our own systems against us is
an "April Fool's Joke".

Why are we so dependent on such systems in the first place?

For the same reason we are so "dependent" on TV, radio, electric lights
and penicillin.

Which makes us more vulnerable.

It makes our lives easier. Of course in the mean time we LOSE basic
skills that, in the absence of those assets, will be necessary.

That loss is avoidable.

BTW...I correct my earlier statement about Slick Willy making the
GPS net available in "93 or 94"...that was when he initially suggested
it. It became effective in 2000. It was discussed in Flying magazine
as early and the late 80's.

None-the-less, the idea of being able to inhibit or completely
disable the system is STILL not new, and I for one hope they DO keep
the reigns on it! It was an error to let it loose in the first place.

You mean "reins"?

Did you understand what I wrote, Jim?

Don't you have a spellchecker, Steve?

IIRC, the inhibition was turned off before Gulf War 1 and simply left turned
off.

Perhaps. Still does not negate the fact that it was a mistake to do so.

Why was it a mistake?

Has any terror attack used the increased accuracy of GPS? Or has the increased
accuracy been used by millions of various users ranging from boaters to
surveyors as an easier, cheaper way to know where they are?

Perhaps we should ground all nongovernment aircraft bigger than a certain size,
so that a 911 style attack could never be repeated. We could also outlaw
certain fertilizers and the rental of trucks bigger than a pickup, to avoid
another Oklahoma City.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote in message
...
Subject: OOOpppss! You stepped in it again, Steve!
From: "KØHB"
Date: 12/16/2004 4:16 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: t

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote

Hans Brakob supports the use of American resources by terrorists
against
America.


Quote where I expressed that support, Steve! (DOS Hint: I never said
it!)

No "DOS Hint" needed Hans.

Your suggestion that "the president's plan" to shut down GPS in
response
to some significant emergency was enough.

The article clearly defined that it was just a "plan".

That "plan" was expressed almost 10 years earlier by President Bush's
predecessor.

I just love using your words against you..... Here's a couple of samples

"Liar, liar, pants on fire!"

or

"You got your dirty laundry aired out and you aren't one tenth the man
necessary
to say "Ooops...I was wrong.."

Sunuvagun! This is fun!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....Hans...since you have first hand experience that I
DO
admit an error, I am at a bit of a loss as to understand where you got
THAT
from.

OBTW, I still think The Shrub is an idiot. So was Slick Willy.

And I think you're a two faced liar. Ya pays yer money and takes
your
choice....

Hans Brakob supports terrorism.

Steve, K4YZ


Steve,

If a gas station owner decides to protect himself against a potential robber
by hooking dynamite up to his gas pumps, I might consider the idea not to be
a particularly sound one.

I think Hans is pointing out that turning off GPS might not be the best idea
in the world.

I believe that option was being looked at as a last resort. I doubt that
would be used for terrorists. In case no one noticed, Russia is building up
ICBMs designed to defeat any anti-ballistic missiles the U.S. puts on-line.
You should realize that we have been invading countries with missiles that
can contain a nuclear warhead. Other countries (including Russia) are not
missing that fact. Should satellites or radar reveal a *lot* of launches,
it just might be a good idea to turn off the GPS. It might not save
Washington, but it would probably save Bush's bunker. Other than that, the
idea of turning off GPS does not strike me as particularly sound.

Pope Bush ... er, excuse me, President Bush, has not exactly enamoured
himself nor the United States to most of the civilized (or less civilized)
world. Bush certainly is not an idiot; he's got a lot of folks convinced
that he is right. I find it fascinating that blame for the deficit seems to
be pointing everywhere except where it belongs - right at the White House.

I also love how he lauds the men and women of the U.S. military - and both
federal funding for the V.A. drop every year. So, your boy in the White
House says one thing and then does another.

Actions speak louder than words.



Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

I've got no problem with opposing viewpoints, but in the end, it's time
for MoveOn.Org to take its own advice and move on. That goes for the
MoveOn cheerleaders as well.

BOL, bb

Subject: OOOpppss! You stepped in it again, Steve!
From: "JAMES HAMPTON"
Date: 12/16/2004 6:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

If a gas station owner decides to protect himself against a potential robber
by hooking dynamite up to his gas pumps, I might consider the idea not to be
a particularly sound one.

I think Hans is pointing out that turning off GPS might not be the best idea
in the world.

Jim, I am as likely to use an analogy as anyone else, but I'm having a
real hard time following your gas pumps-dynamite one....

I believe that option was being looked at as a last resort. I doubt that
would be used for terrorists.

Of course it was a "last resort". Although they didn't use those words in
the article, I thought it pretty well stated that this was NOT a "first line"
option.

Hans' attempt to ridicule the President made it sound as if President Bush
was ready to throw the switch at any moment.

In case no one noticed, Russia is building up
ICBMs designed to defeat any anti-ballistic missiles the U.S. puts on-line.

I am sure they are. And we'll spend money to defeat that...They'll
counter that...We'll come up with a new "stealth" technology, then they'll copy
it, etc, etc etc.....

You should realize that we have been invading countries with missiles that
can contain a nuclear warhead. Other countries (including Russia) are not
missing that fact. Should satellites or radar reveal a *lot* of launches,
it just might be a good idea to turn off the GPS. It might not save
Washington, but it would probably save Bush's bunker. Other than that, the
idea of turning off GPS does not strike me as particularly sound.

In the matter of a military first strike by Russia or any other soverign
nation, no, GPS probably wouldn't matter.

Pope Bush ... er, excuse me, President Bush, has not exactly enamoured
himself nor the United States to most of the civilized (or less civilized)
world. Bush certainly is not an idiot; he's got a lot of folks convinced
that he is right. I find it fascinating that blame for the deficit seems to
be pointing everywhere except where it belongs - right at the White House.

You...me...Joe Average Citizen is responsible for the deficit, Jim.

We buy the Nissan's, Kia's, and cheap clothes at Wal-Mart.

We buy the DVD players manufactured in China or Korea, the shoes made in
Malaysia, and the furniture from Denmark.

Wanna stop a lot of the "deficit"...??? Stop the export of welfare money
to 3rd world countries who divert the monies from food to weapons...Stop buying
the above mentioned items in favor of higher priced American made items...

I also love how he lauds the men and women of the U.S. military - and both
federal funding for the V.A. drop every year. So, your boy in the White
House says one thing and then does another.

"My boy" is not the one solely responsible for that, Jim. A review of
federal spending on benefit programs going back 3 decades will show otherwise.
They were cutting VA funds before I made Sergeant in 77...

Actions speak louder than words.

Yes they do.

Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman and that he'd track
down Osama bin Laden and others responsible for the WTC and USS Cole bombings.

He lied. The price was even more American lives lost due to
camel-fornicationg terrorists, and a complete humiliation of the Office of the
Presidency.

G W Bush said that Al-Queda was going to pay a price for it's treatchery
in NYC.

He kept his word. Yes, American lives have been lost in combat, but the
one thing the "rest" of the world does NOT do anymore is doubt the word of the
American President if he says he's going to do something, whether they like
what he's saying or not.

So you are quite right...Actions DO speak louder than words. I can
tolerate G W stating his case, making a decison, and then taking the heat for
mistakes. Bill Clinton is STILL lying about Monica Lewinsky and every other
controversy he got himself into in the White House despite evidence to the
contrary...

And to top it off, he AND his wife, now Senator from New York, tried to
make off with thousands of dollars of property from the White House when they
left and were forced to return it. And what is she doing now...?!?! "Testing
the waters" for a run at the White House herself.


73

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

From another thread, Hans made
the most assinine statement:

......Now, do you really honestly think, that anyone
here really gives a flying 14.313 radio**** about
your lunatic rantings ?

None-the-less, the idea of being able to inhibit or completely
disable the system is STILL not new, and I for one hope they DO keep
the reigns on it! It was an error to let it loose in the first place.
Steve, K4YZ

Not as big as the error letting you out
of your straight jacket, Why don't you
go over to The Legion and visit all those
nice brown bottles sittin on ice under the
table? (..and afterwards be sure to take the
long route home behind the wheel...hick! hick!)

"I mean, if I went around saying I was an Emperor
just because some moistened bint had lobbed a
scimitar at me, people would put me away!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sounds.html

"Steve Robeson K4YZ" wrote in message
...
Subject: OOOpppss! You stepped in it again, Steve!
From: "JAMES HAMPTON"
Date: 12/16/2004 6:58 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

If a gas station owner decides to protect himself against a potential
robber
by hooking dynamite up to his gas pumps, I might consider the idea not to
be
a particularly sound one.

I think Hans is pointing out that turning off GPS might not be the best
idea
in the world.

Jim, I am as likely to use an analogy as anyone else, but I'm having
a
real hard time following your gas pumps-dynamite one....

I believe that option was being looked at as a last resort. I doubt that
would be used for terrorists.

Of course it was a "last resort". Although they didn't use those
words in
the article, I thought it pretty well stated that this was NOT a "first
line"
option.

Hans' attempt to ridicule the President made it sound as if President
Bush
was ready to throw the switch at any moment.

In case no one noticed, Russia is building up
ICBMs designed to defeat any anti-ballistic missiles the U.S. puts
on-line.

I am sure they are. And we'll spend money to defeat that...They'll
counter that...We'll come up with a new "stealth" technology, then they'll
copy
it, etc, etc etc.....

You should realize that we have been invading countries with missiles
that
can contain a nuclear warhead. Other countries (including Russia) are
not
missing that fact. Should satellites or radar reveal a *lot* of
launches,
it just might be a good idea to turn off the GPS. It might not save
Washington, but it would probably save Bush's bunker. Other than that,
the
idea of turning off GPS does not strike me as particularly sound.

In the matter of a military first strike by Russia or any other
soverign
nation, no, GPS probably wouldn't matter.

Pope Bush ... er, excuse me, President Bush, has not exactly enamoured
himself nor the United States to most of the civilized (or less
civilized)
world. Bush certainly is not an idiot; he's got a lot of folks convinced
that he is right. I find it fascinating that blame for the deficit seems
to
be pointing everywhere except where it belongs - right at the White
House.

You...me...Joe Average Citizen is responsible for the deficit, Jim.

We buy the Nissan's, Kia's, and cheap clothes at Wal-Mart.

We buy the DVD players manufactured in China or Korea, the shoes made
in
Malaysia, and the furniture from Denmark.

Wanna stop a lot of the "deficit"...??? Stop the export of welfare
money
to 3rd world countries who divert the monies from food to weapons...Stop
buying
the above mentioned items in favor of higher priced American made items...

I also love how he lauds the men and women of the U.S. military - and
both
federal funding for the V.A. drop every year. So, your boy in the White
House says one thing and then does another.

"My boy" is not the one solely responsible for that, Jim. A review
of
federal spending on benefit programs going back 3 decades will show
otherwise.
They were cutting VA funds before I made Sergeant in 77...

Actions speak louder than words.

Yes they do.

Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman and that he'd
track
down Osama bin Laden and others responsible for the WTC and USS Cole
bombings.

He lied. The price was even more American lives lost due to
camel-fornicationg terrorists, and a complete humiliation of the Office of
the
Presidency.

G W Bush said that Al-Queda was going to pay a price for it's
treatchery
in NYC.

He kept his word. Yes, American lives have been lost in combat, but
the
one thing the "rest" of the world does NOT do anymore is doubt the word of
the
American President if he says he's going to do something, whether they
like
what he's saying or not.

So you are quite right...Actions DO speak louder than words. I can
tolerate G W stating his case, making a decison, and then taking the heat
for
mistakes. Bill Clinton is STILL lying about Monica Lewinsky and every
other
controversy he got himself into in the White House despite evidence to the
contrary...

And to top it off, he AND his wife, now Senator from New York, tried
to
make off with thousands of dollars of property from the White House when
they
left and were forced to return it. And what is she doing now...?!?!
"Testing
the waters" for a run at the White House herself.


73

Steve, K4YZ


Hello, Steve


I hope she wins.

Anything to share the grief. The only way we could get rid of governor
Rockefeller was when he became vice president after Spiro Agnew got caught
up with problems (after Tricky Dicky got caught up with his own problems
LOL).

So, you can have her ....

(the truth comes out LOL)


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA