"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

[snip]


That there are less women in the ARS is true enough. But that is
interesting from a "why is that?" standpoint. It probably isn't so
interesting from a "how do we change Ham radio to attract more women?"
aspect.

Dee or Kim might be able to shed some light on that, in form of "Why I am
interested in Amateur radio" or perhaps some insight on why a lot of women
aren't.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Well Mike, I got interested in Amateur Radio because my former husband
dragged me to a class saying "Let's do this TOGETHER." After I was
involved, I found that I enjoyed it for its own sake. So that's when I
decided to continue to study and upgrade and go all the way to Extra.
Although he and I parted a few years ago, I still am active in ham radio.

As you may or may not know, I am an engineer. However, I really can't say
why this and other technical fields don't attract more women. One of my
daughter's also went into engineering and the other one couldn't care less
for technical fields.

I'll give this some more thought though but right now must run my daughter
around.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Kind of. There is a wide gender gap between men and women in the
engineering fields.


But people consider it more important than it really is. There's a gender
gap in the other direction in many fields.


But working in the field, they account for 9 percent of all U.S. engineers

There is a quote that shows up at several sites:

"Women still face gender-specific obstacles when studying and preparing
for careers in engineering and other sciences. There is solid evidence
that mentoring can help address this disparity" said Muller"

http://tinyurl.com/5lm92

Despite the prevalence of the quote, I'm not sure what the disparities
are.


I got into engineering in 1969 and didn't find any obstacles. So I don't
know what the disparities are either.



Or they can force 'em to go to "tech camp"

http://tinyurl.com/5m82m



Interestingly enough, there are High schools that place emphasis on
science and math. The enrollment in these schools is roughly equal, gender
wise. But the female students tend to gravitate to liberal arts, medicine
and law.

see
http://tinyurl.com/3umlf


Finally, I'm not sure what to think. I've discussed the issue with a woman
engineer I work with. Interestingly enough, she says she KNEW she wanted
to be an engineer from the time she was a kid. No forcing to go to camps.
She thinks the recruitment efforts are not going to work, because one does
not pick engineering like one may pick a major from a school catalog.


I knew I wanted to do something in the math/science/technical field but
didn't home in on engineering specifically until I was a junior in high
school. I tend to agree that the recruitment efforts will have little
impact as if you don't have the inclination you won't pick the field even if
recruited. Or if you do pick it, you won't stay with it.


Oh, and she says she hates being called a "Woman Engineer". "Engineer" by
itself will do just fine thank you!

A sample of one, of course, but perhaps a little telling.


Make that a sample of two as I agree wholeheartedly with that.

Maybe people who are interested in engineering get tin to it for that
reason, and people who are not into engineering do other things.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Ditto.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
...
Michael Coslo wrote:

K4YZ wrote:

The following is from the ARRL website...I brought over the first
paragraphs as a starting point. The remainder may be read in it's
entirety at www.arrl.org.

My question: Is this even an issue?

Kind of. There is a wide gender gap between men and women in the
engineering fields.

But working in the field, they account for 9 percent of all U.S.
engineers

There is a quote that shows up at several sites:

"Women still face gender-specific obstacles when studying and preparing
for careers in engineering and other sciences. There is solid evidence
that mentoring can help address this disparity" said Muller"

There's any easy way out of all this stuff, Mike: Fire the president of
Harvard. Lawrence Summers made some gender-specific comments on women
in math and the sciences which, while true, may cost him his job. The
PC police were all over him like African flies on a dung pile in the
wake of his statements.


I heard about that and personally I'm on his side but then I never was
"politically correct."

I met Summers during his visit as Deputy Secretary of the Treasury to
the U.S. Embassy in Helsinki. He showed less ego than any high level
visitor I ever encountered. He was quickly known as "Call Me Larry"
Summers since anyone addressing him as Mr. Summers or Secretary Summers
was quickly told to "call me Larry".

There are differences in the way that men and women think. There are
things which mostly interest women and there are things which mostly
interest men. There are things which a lot of men and not very many
women are good at. There are things which a lot of women and not very
men are good at. If you don't like my statement, fire Larry Summers.


I'd say it's more of an interest than ability. One can be good at something
even without ability if they care to put in the extra effort (i.e. have
enough interest to do so). Why the interests differ would be an interesting
issue.

There aren't many women in amateur radio. There have never been many
women in amateur radio. While the numbers have been and are likely to
remain small, some of the females have been very, very good operators.
Mae Burke W3CUL a CW whiz and traffic handling demon and DXers Martha
Henson and Iris Colvin W6QL, come to mind.

Now we need Len Anderson to chime in with something about how amateur
radio is predominately "white".


Please don't give him any ideas.


Dave K8MN


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote in message
ups.com...

[snip]


- Like it or not, there *are* some gender-related differences. They may
be all due to cultural forces (quite likely), or all due to genetics
(extremely unlikely), or some mix, but the differences are there. And
they're not going to go away overnight.


Actually I happen to think there are some genetic gender differences but
that they are not great. We can all do math for example but some like it
and some don't. Those who don't like it have to have other reasons for
pursuing it other than love of math itself.

As I said before - It seems to me that the goal is equality of
opportunity, not equality of outcome.


That is what is truly important. There needs to be enough freedom that
those who fall outside the typical band can pursue those interests. Don't
force women to be engineers but create an environment such that those who
are so inclined can pursue it without having to battle society. Similarly
those men who wish to be nurses or secretaries or whatever should be free to
pursue those goals without society looking askance at them. At the same
time, those who wish to follow traditional paths should also be free to do
so without extremists (such as some of the NAG and NOW members) looking down
on them.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

K4YZ wrote:

My question: Is this even an issue?

There's beeen a lot of great ansswers here, save for Lennie's
usual attempt to be racist and chauvanistic.

What I am trying to get at, though, is "so what"...?!?!

Dee, Kim, don't get fussed at me...My only point here is that
there are NO barriers to ANYone, male, female, black, white, straight,
gay, etc etc etc getting a license.

Just like there's nothing preventing me from picking up a quilting
needle if I wanted to, or starting a floral shop, etc.

I received an off-line response that cited a lawsuit agaist the
ARRL in "the 92-94 time frame" that cited a suit brought against the
League. Sounds more like a labor dispute to me!

Does ANY organization have an "obligation" to HAVE to "recruit" on
behalf of an avocation that many consider "just a hobby"...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ

Michael Coslo wrote:

It seems to be the same with many technical careers or hobbies.
There
is a lot of effort to recruit women to the engineering ranks. But not

that many appear to be attracted to it.

Ditto meteorology. The American Meteorological Society had lots of
verbiage in the BAMS and a questionaire "what should we do to
attract..."

Time frame was 80's as I recall. I had hoped we had gotten past all
that by now. We've got women doctors, truck drivers, and weight
lifters. And even a movie about women boxers. It's time to drop the
"first woman to... whatever" stuff.

Perhaps we need to have tight control over this sort of thing. A
carreer / hobby lottery, so to speak. When you are in 6th grade, you
draw at random two things, a career slip and a hobby slip. And that
is
what ya train for and do from then on. Strict control will have to be

exercised in order to enforce gender equity!

The Gulag for the dissenters.

I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty goofy to me.

That there are less women in the ARS is true enough.

And?

But that is
interesting from a "why is that?" standpoint.

It's hard to tune them in on SSB.

It probably isn't so
interesting from a "how do we change Ham radio to attract more
women?"
aspect.

Reminds me of Larry Roll/K3LT and his "Welfare mothers of color"
remarks.

Dee or Kim might be able to shed some light on that, in form of "Why
I
am interested in Amateur radio" or perhaps some insight on why a lot
of
women aren't.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Whoa! I thought we weren't allowed to take anything Kim says
seriously? And Dee will merely spout the ARRL party line.

wrote:

Big badass dave LIKES worms, Alun.

"I am only here to debate the Morse Code TEST issue".

From the Archived Internet Lies of:



Putz.

Steve, K4YZ

"K4YZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

K4YZ wrote:

My question: Is this even an issue?

There's beeen a lot of great ansswers here, save for Lennie's
usual attempt to be racist and chauvanistic.

What I am trying to get at, though, is "so what"...?!?!

Dee, Kim, don't get fussed at me...My only point here is that
there are NO barriers to ANYone, male, female, black, white, straight,
gay, etc etc etc getting a license.


Well speaking for myself, I'm certainly not fussed. I agree that there's no
real barriers to any one getting a license.

Just like there's nothing preventing me from picking up a quilting
needle if I wanted to, or starting a floral shop, etc.


If you can stand other people considering you weird, more power to you as
far as I'm concerned. I'm sure no one dared tell Rosie Grier (an NFL player
for those too young to remember) that he was odd for doing needlepoint. I
believe he even appeared in ads in women's magazines for needlepoint
supplies.

I received an off-line response that cited a lawsuit agaist the
ARRL in "the 92-94 time frame" that cited a suit brought against the
League. Sounds more like a labor dispute to me!

Does ANY organization have an "obligation" to HAVE to "recruit" on
behalf of an avocation that many consider "just a hobby"...?!?!


Not as far as I'm concerned.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...

Michael Coslo wrote:

It seems to be the same with many technical careers or hobbies.
There
is a lot of effort to recruit women to the engineering ranks. But not

that many appear to be attracted to it.

Ditto meteorology. The American Meteorological Society had lots of
verbiage in the BAMS and a questionaire "what should we do to
attract..."

Time frame was 80's as I recall. I had hoped we had gotten past all
that by now. We've got women doctors, truck drivers, and weight
lifters. And even a movie about women boxers. It's time to drop the
"first woman to... whatever" stuff.

Perhaps we need to have tight control over this sort of thing. A
carreer / hobby lottery, so to speak. When you are in 6th grade, you
draw at random two things, a career slip and a hobby slip. And that
is
what ya train for and do from then on. Strict control will have to be

exercised in order to enforce gender equity!

The Gulag for the dissenters.

I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty goofy to me.

That there are less women in the ARS is true enough.

And?

But that is
interesting from a "why is that?" standpoint.

It's hard to tune them in on SSB.

It probably isn't so
interesting from a "how do we change Ham radio to attract more
women?"
aspect.

Reminds me of Larry Roll/K3LT and his "Welfare mothers of color"
remarks.

Dee or Kim might be able to shed some light on that, in form of "Why
I
am interested in Amateur radio" or perhaps some insight on why a lot
of
women aren't.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Whoa! I thought we weren't allowed to take anything Kim says
seriously? And Dee will merely spout the ARRL party line.


I do hope you meant to add a smiley to that.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

I received an off-line response that cited a lawsuit agaist the
ARRL in "the 92-94 time frame" that cited a suit brought against the
League. Sounds more like a labor dispute to me!

Something about the ARRL not wanting to run a classified ad for
a gay ham club IIRC.