On Sat, 28 May 2005 19:42:14 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:

Many people lament that there is not enough interest in Ham radio by
young people.

There are often many reasons given for this deficiency, and somewhat
less "fixes".

One of the reasons that is given very often is that Amateur radio is in
some sort of competition with the Internet. Let us look at this theory.

What is the competition between the two? In order to use the internet,
one must of course have a computer. It must be connected to the
internet, through one of several methods. Once the person has learned to
turn on the computer, open a few programs or so, they have the
necessary skills to work the internet.

Amateur radio on the other hand, requires that a radio be used, which
requires some skill in operating. An antenna system needs to be
connected to this radio. Whereas it is possible to have everything set
up for the Ham, most young people do not have the resources to have
someone set up their system. Coupled with the possibility of putting an
antenna in operation that only costs a few dollars, or even less if the
youngster has good scrounging skills, the likelihood is that they would
design and put up their own antenna, another skill needed.

So there is a large difference in the skills needed for the two hobbies.

Cell phones as competition? While there is a temptation to snipe "Get
Real!", I'll address those too.

What would make a person decide to take up Cell phone use as a hobby?
Cell phones allow you to talk to people that you know (for the most
part) and operate in the same manner as a regular telephone, save that
you take the cell with you, and you are generally tied in the same
building with a standard telephone. It's hard to imagine someone doing
that as a hobby, although there are a lot of people who spend a lot of
time using them.

So what makes a youngster decide to become a Ham?

We can try using the input of those who became Hams at a young age.
Most of what I have heard is that the person was very interested in the
technical aspects involved with getting on the air. Making antennas,
building rigs, and getting them on the air was a big part of the attraction.

In the end, I believe that it is young people that have a technical
interest that will likely become Hams.

And that, I believe, is the crux of the issue.

America is not a place that encourages those who might be thinking of a
technical career. We have a tendency to encourage a more "pop culture"
outlook, which as often as not discounts actual learning for "street
cred", and actually turns the smart person into an object of ridicule.
There are levels, and there are levels. If a person is intelligent, and
wants a good livelihood, you will find careers that are acceptable. You
can be a movie star, or perhaps a lawyer. A whole spectrum follows, but
engineering and the technical fields are not very high on that list.

How often is the Techie portrayed as a sort of Bill Nye, the science
guy type (at best). How about the smart woman who takes off her glasses
and suddenly becomes the hot babe? Professor Frink on "The Simpsons"?
Pop culture is not kind to the technical types.

My experiences with programs like "bring your sons and daughters to
work day" shows that almost none of the kids is even thinking of a
technical field. A lot want to be lawyers.

Once in the past, we were scared into thinking that maybe science and
technology was maybe not such a bad thing. That happened when the
commies launched Sputnik. Suddenly it seemed important that at least
some of our kids decided to work in the sciences. Hopefully we will
decide that again without having to be shocked into it.

I am pretty firmly convinced that until we stop catering to the least
common denominator, until we stop marginalizing the technically and
scientifically inclined, we will not find many youngsters who want to
come into our hobby.

- Mike KB3EIA -


The answer is simple:

They're lazy and have NO imaginations. They want the easy, don't
have to do/learn anything way. Look at all the retards on thier cellphones
EVERY FREAKING MINUTE of the day.

Nope. You just about covered it all.
That leaves only the holdout dregs of CB who are now getting Tech licenses
and migrating to two meters.

Used to be that the hams came mostly from the SWL fraternity ...... we have
had CB converts test and upgrade with no difficulty .... problems on the
repeaters .....any were solved by a phone call to that person not by an on
air "dressing down"


You can hear them every day on the local repeaters. They use CB slang such
as "hate and discontent", "make my phone go ringy-dingy", "I heard that, I
did", and the all-time favorite? "Ten four, good buddy."

Did you give the guys a call on the phone and explain procedure or write
them a note ??? We all were young once either in age or experience .....at
57 I still routinely put my foot in my mouth ...


They buy a Rad Shack 2 meter ht and hammer the repeaters all day long. Ask
one of them to switch over to simplex and you can hear the confusion in
their voices.

Here is where I have to agree with you Terry ..... better yet ask them to
switch over to CW or the digital modes on HF. The problem I see is that we
don't have enough people upgrading to HF or using any mode but VHF FM.




"Simplex. What is that?" or, "I can't get out that far."
Oh, and for laughs just listen to the Techies as they give each other
signal
reports on a repeater. They tell each other they are full quieting and
have
good audio. Oh, duh!

Again our job as members of this "fraternity" is to be a guide to to new
guys or ladys. Always remember the stupid things that we have done or said
in the past ....and boy do I have a lot of those ......



The ultimate hoot for me was when last week a couple of Techies were
hammering the daylights out of a local repeater. One was getting out of
range and his Techie buddie suggested they move to another repeater. What
did I hear but the one Tech say to the other, "I am gonna QSY to my
truck."
Lids. Lids and more Lids.

No just newcombers for the most part who need a little guidence but I do
know guys who have been in this line for 50 years who would fit the Lid
title .......


(ditttos on the Yaesu gear. I wouldn't own anything but)

I'm looking at a 897 for the car ...looks pretty neat .....


Takle care all 73 Tom KI3R Belle Vernon Pa.

"garigue" wrote in message
...

"Jamar" nolid@nohome wrote in message ...

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
news
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
[snip]
I am pretty firmly convinced that until we stop catering to the least
common denominator, until we stop marginalizing the technically and
scientifically inclined, we will not find many youngsters who want to
come
into our hobby.

- Mike KB3EIA -

I would tend to agree with that. All through school, I was somewhat of
an
"outcast" because I was interested in science and technology.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

That explains why you were not asked to the proms.
All this time I had suspected it was a result of your condescending
attitude.


Well I guess that an interesting discussion degenerated at the 3rd post
.....


73 safe holiday everyone ....... Tom KI3R Belle Vernon Pa

Unfortunately that's the usual pattern. It's very difficult to keep a good
discussion going without someone putting in derogatory remarks just to feed
their own egos.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Joe Cameltoe ) writes:
On Sat, 28 May 2005 19:42:14 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:

Many people lament that there is not enough interest in Ham radio by
young people.

There are often many reasons given for this deficiency, and somewhat
less "fixes".

One of the reasons that is given very often is that Amateur radio is in
some sort of competition with the Internet. Let us look at this theory.

What is the competition between the two? In order to use the internet,
one must of course have a computer. It must be connected to the
internet, through one of several methods. Once the person has learned to
turn on the computer, open a few programs or so, they have the
necessary skills to work the internet.

Amateur radio on the other hand, requires that a radio be used, which
requires some skill in operating. An antenna system needs to be
connected to this radio. Whereas it is possible to have everything set
up for the Ham, most young people do not have the resources to have
someone set up their system. Coupled with the possibility of putting an
antenna in operation that only costs a few dollars, or even less if the
youngster has good scrounging skills, the likelihood is that they would
design and put up their own antenna, another skill needed.

So there is a large difference in the skills needed for the two hobbies.

Cell phones as competition? While there is a temptation to snipe "Get
Real!", I'll address those too.

What would make a person decide to take up Cell phone use as a hobby?
Cell phones allow you to talk to people that you know (for the most
part) and operate in the same manner as a regular telephone, save that
you take the cell with you, and you are generally tied in the same
building with a standard telephone. It's hard to imagine someone doing
that as a hobby, although there are a lot of people who spend a lot of
time using them.

So what makes a youngster decide to become a Ham?

We can try using the input of those who became Hams at a young age.
Most of what I have heard is that the person was very interested in the
technical aspects involved with getting on the air. Making antennas,
building rigs, and getting them on the air was a big part of the attraction.

In the end, I believe that it is young people that have a technical
interest that will likely become Hams.

And that, I believe, is the crux of the issue.

America is not a place that encourages those who might be thinking of a
technical career. We have a tendency to encourage a more "pop culture"
outlook, which as often as not discounts actual learning for "street
cred", and actually turns the smart person into an object of ridicule.
There are levels, and there are levels. If a person is intelligent, and
wants a good livelihood, you will find careers that are acceptable. You
can be a movie star, or perhaps a lawyer. A whole spectrum follows, but
engineering and the technical fields are not very high on that list.

How often is the Techie portrayed as a sort of Bill Nye, the science
guy type (at best). How about the smart woman who takes off her glasses
and suddenly becomes the hot babe? Professor Frink on "The Simpsons"?
Pop culture is not kind to the technical types.

My experiences with programs like "bring your sons and daughters to
work day" shows that almost none of the kids is even thinking of a
technical field. A lot want to be lawyers.

Once in the past, we were scared into thinking that maybe science and
technology was maybe not such a bad thing. That happened when the
commies launched Sputnik. Suddenly it seemed important that at least
some of our kids decided to work in the sciences. Hopefully we will
decide that again without having to be shocked into it.

I am pretty firmly convinced that until we stop catering to the least
common denominator, until we stop marginalizing the technically and
scientifically inclined, we will not find many youngsters who want to
come into our hobby.

- Mike KB3EIA -


The answer is simple:

They're lazy and have NO imaginations. They want the easy, don't
have to do/learn anything way. Look at all the retards on thier cellphones
EVERY FREAKING MINUTE of the day.

The problem with that is that you've just alienated the very group
that needs to be part of amateur radio (for the hobby, for them).
YOu can't go into a room full of people you want to attract and
call them names.

I do argue that the failure of amateur radio to attract young
people is because we a) aren't trying and b)don't know how.

The minute you characterize all the young as some monolithic group,
you are saying you don't know the kids, and if you don't know
them, then there's no way of bridging that gap. I'm not sure how
we do it, but I do know that one has to get into their heads to
reach them.

Keep in mind that decades ago, amateur radio was hardly a mainstreem
interest among the population. SOme would be interested, many would
not. There'd be people like you back then characterizing the young
people, minus the cellphones, basically saying the same thing. Ultimately,
little has changed.

Michael VE2BVW

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Many people lament that there is not enough interest in Ham radio by
young people.

There are often many reasons given for this deficiency, and somewhat
less "fixes".

One of the reasons that is given very often is that Amateur radio is in
some sort of competition with the Internet. Let us look at this theory.

What is the competition between the two? In order to use the internet,
one must of course have a computer. It must be connected to the
internet, through one of several methods. Once the person has learned to
turn on the computer, open a few programs or so, they have the
necessary skills to work the internet.

Amateur radio on the other hand, requires that a radio be used, which
requires some skill in operating. An antenna system needs to be
connected to this radio. Whereas it is possible to have everything set
up for the Ham, most young people do not have the resources to have
someone set up their system. Coupled with the possibility of putting an
antenna in operation that only costs a few dollars, or even less if the
youngster has good scrounging skills, the likelihood is that they would
design and put up their own antenna, another skill needed.

So there is a large difference in the skills needed for the two hobbies.

Cell phones as competition? While there is a temptation to snipe "Get
Real!", I'll address those too.

What would make a person decide to take up Cell phone use as a hobby?
Cell phones allow you to talk to people that you know (for the most
part) and operate in the same manner as a regular telephone, save that
you take the cell with you, and you are generally tied in the same
building with a standard telephone. It's hard to imagine someone doing
that as a hobby, although there are a lot of people who spend a lot of
time using them.

So what makes a youngster decide to become a Ham?

We can try using the input of those who became Hams at a young age.
Most of what I have heard is that the person was very interested in the
technical aspects involved with getting on the air. Making antennas,
building rigs, and getting them on the air was a big part of the
attraction.

In the end, I believe that it is young people that have a technical
interest that will likely become Hams.

And that, I believe, is the crux of the issue.

America is not a place that encourages those who might be thinking of a
technical career. We have a tendency to encourage a more "pop culture"
outlook, which as often as not discounts actual learning for "street
cred", and actually turns the smart person into an object of ridicule.
There are levels, and there are levels. If a person is intelligent, and
wants a good livelihood, you will find careers that are acceptable. You
can be a movie star, or perhaps a lawyer. A whole spectrum follows, but
engineering and the technical fields are not very high on that list.

How often is the Techie portrayed as a sort of Bill Nye, the science
guy type (at best). How about the smart woman who takes off her glasses
and suddenly becomes the hot babe? Professor Frink on "The Simpsons"?
Pop culture is not kind to the technical types.

My experiences with programs like "bring your sons and daughters to
work day" shows that almost none of the kids is even thinking of a
technical field. A lot want to be lawyers.

Once in the past, we were scared into thinking that maybe science and
technology was maybe not such a bad thing. That happened when the
commies launched Sputnik. Suddenly it seemed important that at least
some of our kids decided to work in the sciences. Hopefully we will
decide that again without having to be shocked into it.

I am pretty firmly convinced that until we stop catering to the least
common denominator, until we stop marginalizing the technically and
scientifically inclined, we will not find many youngsters who want to
come into our hobby.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Hello, Mike

You've hit the nail on the head. Look at one reply to Dee's comment.

I went to a pipe organ concert last evening and ran into a guy who has been
in broadcasting. I'm glad I got out of broadcasting. He was glad he was
approaching retirement. He told me that he hated news. Oh, if you are an
anchor or weatherman, you can make $150,000 a year, no sweat. But for the
folks that have to take the equipment and run the recorders or gather the
news for that personality, wages are terrible.

I was in broadcasting at one time. I served as an engineer at a couple of
stations and chief engineer of one station. The pay was pretty good.

Then the FCC changed things. No more 1st class radiotelephone license
required. This allowed anyone to get in with no prior anything.

Stations (due to competition from satellite and cable tv) started
networking. One local station let go most of the staff and they get their
feed from another station in Syracuse (that also feeds other stations owned
by the same entity). A skeleton crew for the news, network feeds during the
day, and the feed from Syracuse otherwise. One person serves as chief
engineer for 5 stations and they run him ragged. And he makes less than
those on-air personalities that might work 4 hours per day (plus a few more
researching, but certainly less than 8 hours per day). BTW, the interns
work for *nothing*. It is part of their college "education". Since they
receive college credit for the work, there is no labor law violation. I've
heard that the working jobs are paying perhaps 7 to 12 bucks per hour. Why
would someone want to get into that? Heck, don't think, cut grass, and
you'll make perhaps 8 or 10.

I recently posted a link. Most interesting. Direct TV (which I subscribe
to) is launching a number of satellites to feed high-definition to the U.S.
Guess who launched the satellite for them? Russia!

China has most of our manufacturing.

I refuse to work as a toolmaker for $10.00 per hour. I'd take a job as a
janitor before virtually giving away labor that should be around $30.00 per
hour.

Many folks that got hit with the latest cuts where I put in most of my
career are back working as temps - at about 60% wages and no benefits.

Fortunately, they didn't pull the plug fast enough on me. Although my
pension is small, I do get health coverage (at least most of it) from my
former employer.

I am not considering just not working. I won't have the income that I'd
like, but enough to manage on. Social Insecurity is only 4 1/2 years away.

I had enough technical knowledge stolen from me over the years at that
company. The last time, I was speaking with a supervisor about how terrible
the code was in their programmable ladder controllers. I told him that scan
rates could be cut by a factor of 7 and cycle times improved. I also
mentioned that I had automated ladder generation with optimization back
around 1982.

He stated that if I could do it, he'd take me in to see the manager. I told
him that I had the code already but was not going to give it to the
department because we were going to loose our jobs anyway.

So, China does the work manually. They didn't want the machines.

Fasten your seatbelts. We're going down fast and it is going to be a bumpy
ride.



73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Mike Coslo wrote:

.. . . .

So what makes a youngster decide to become a Ham?

We can try using the input of those who became Hams at a young age.
Most of what I have heard is that the person was very interested in the
technical aspects involved with getting on the air.
Making antennas,
building rigs, and getting them on the air was a big part of the attraction.

I was one of those back in the "Golden Era" of ham radio. There were
two basic types of kids who got into ham radio. Those who had a strong
interest in electronics and enjoyed building their rigs and such many
of whom went on to become EEs and EE techs.

The other category consisted of kids whose interests were in using ham
radio to *communicate*. I was one of those. I was a certified geek from
a tender age but I didn't have much interest in electronics as such
because I was far more interested in things mechanical which eventually
led me into a career in mechanical enginering with DXing and contesting
strictly on a hobby basis. Others in this group had no particular
interests in technical matters at all.

When I look back at all the kid hams I knew and what they've done since
then on the job and in the hobby it's about a 30/70 split. 30% are into
electronics, 70% are not and never were. One of my young ham
acquaintances from back then became a priest for instance. As often as
not having to study electronics and do soldering iron pushups were
friggin' obstacles to getting on the air.

In the end, I believe that it is young people that have a technical
interest that will likely become Hams.

And that, I believe, is the crux of the issue.

Sort of. Bottom line here though is that ham radio has historically
attracted a much broader group of kids than just those with an interest
in electronics.


America is not a place that encourages those who might be thinking of a
technical career. We have a tendency to encourage a more "pop culture"
outlook, which as often as not discounts actual learning for "street
cred",

There's another factor here. I raised three kids and they're raising a
total of five kids under Pop-pop's "close supervision". The problem I'm
seeing at least within today's version of the Yuppy class is
overprogrammed kids and sports. Their lives are consumed by carefully
planned "events" mom & dad have arranged for them. Football practice
here then more football practice, soccer practice, two swim meets this
week and oops let's not forget Corryne's dance class and there goes mom
"Crap, I gotta be in three places at the same time again!"

There aren't any open slots in the kids' schedules for some quiet
soldering iron time on their own. It's obsessive, massive and insane.

and actually turns the smart person into an object of ridicule.

I'm not laying any claims to being particulary smart and I took a lot
of cheap shots about being a geek up thru my junior high school years.
I wasn't alone with this problem either, all us young hams had to deal
with it to one extent or another. I was lucky because I've never been
bothered by "peer pressure", fuggem, "meet me out by the swings after
school . . ". The wilting lilly type geeks had it much tougher but I
don't remember any who pulled out of ham radio because of the crap
they took from other kids.

The big drivers kids have is their parents, if the parents support
their interests the geeks will be OK. If the parents don't support or
think much of their interests the geek kids have a real problem.

My parents were very supportive of my interest in ham radio (except
when I blotted out the TV while Dad while watching the Friday nite
Gillete fights. "Radios off NOW". Click). I don't see where life has
changed very much in this respect.


There are levels, and there are levels. If a person is intelligent, and
wants a good livelihood, you will find careers that are acceptable. You
can be a movie star, or perhaps a lawyer. A whole spectrum follows, but
engineering and the technical fields are not very high on that list.

How often is the Techie portrayed as a sort of Bill Nye, the science
guy type (at best). How about the smart woman who takes off her glasses
and suddenly becomes the hot babe? Professor Frink on "The Simpsons"?
Pop culture is not kind to the technical types.

My experiences with programs like "bring your sons and daughters to
work day" shows that almost none of the kids is even thinking of a
technical field. A lot want to be lawyers.

Kids ain't stupid, they follow the money. Problem there is that one of
these days the lawyer biz is gonna tank because of overpopulation.

Once in the past, we were scared into thinking that maybe science and
technology was maybe not such a bad thing. That happened when the
commies launched Sputnik. Suddenly it seemed important that at least
some of our kids decided to work in the sciences. Hopefully we will
decide that again without having to be shocked into it.

Don't even get me started on that debacle. I was one of the first to
find Sputnik 1 on 15M which I did with the ham club's old Hammarlund
rcvr. Long story but I'll spare ya that one.

Kids flocked to engineering schools in battalions then they dumped into
the Apollo program. When that bubble broke months after the Apollo
program ended several years later something like 200,000 graduate
engineers found themselves out on the bricks looking for jobs.

I met a guy in that timeframe who was one of those. You won't believe
this one but it's true: This guy had spent his entire professional
career "engineering" NASA control and annunciator panel PILOT LAMPS for
God's sake! He finally found a job as a real estate agent and barely
beat the sheriff to the title for his abode. Thousands of others
weren't so lucky.

These guys (and a few gals, very few) have raised their kids and are
becoming grandparents today. They have clout, they been there in
volume. I wouldn't expect them to encourage acquiring technical
educations, at least not in engineering, I would expect a lot of
lingering bitterness about engineering careers on their parts.

As much as I've enjoyed my 40+ year engineering career even I'd
hesitate about encouraging a kid to get into the biz. Like everything
else the engineering of the products we use is being shipped offshore.
I dunno, don't look good to me . .


I am pretty firmly convinced that until we stop catering to the least
common denominator, until we stop marginalizing the technically and
scientifically inclined, we will not find many youngsters who want to
come into our hobby.

I agree with that 100% but it would take years to have any noticeable
effect.

Taking the topic out a bit further so what if ham radio shrinks, even
if it shrinks a bunch? What would be the real-world implications? A bit
less clout at the FCC? The League might have to lay off a few bodies?
After that what?? We have a helluva lot more hams today per capita
today than we had back in the "Golden Era". If we lost half of us we'd
still be ahead. We've been sitting ducks for years with respect to
losing some of our spectrum space above 30Mhz. and it has nothing do
with the number of valid ham tickets.

The huge change from the "Golden Era" involves the HF spectrum. HF
radio has become almost passe as far as it's commercial value is
concerned. Hell, the FCC is dumping BPL all over it, sez it all. So I
don't see where even a precipitous drop the number of ham tickets will
have any effect on our HF privs. So what's left to get excited about??

With or without kids citizens of all ages will continue to come into
the hobby which will continue to evolve just like it has for the past
century. I dunno what ham radio will be like 25-50 out but my hunch is
that it'll be smaller, maybe much smaller but still very much alive and
well. The future is much bigger than any of us or the even the ARRL
(gasp!), there's absolutely nothing we can do about any of it. Rants
and hand-wringing in this NG notwithstanding.

Let it roll and enjoy the trip people.


- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv

Oh yeah -- take a look at San Diego youth training -- URL:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/n...-1mi7hams.html

Only one of several schools here that are training school kids

So what are you doing to get more "young'uns" into the Amateur Radio Service
?
--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !






"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Many people lament that there is not enough interest in Ham radio by
young people.

garigue wrote:

Used to be that the hams came mostly from the SWL fraternity ...... we have
had CB converts test and upgrade with no difficulty .... problems on the
repeaters .....any were solved by a phone call to that person not by an on
air "dressing down"


You can hear them every day on the local repeaters. They use CB slang such
as "hate and discontent", "make my phone go ringy-dingy", "I heard that, I
did", and the all-time favorite? "Ten four, good buddy."

Did you give the guys a call on the phone and explain procedure or write
them a note ??? We all were young once either in age or experience .....at
57 I still routinely put my foot in my mouth ...

Every once in a blue moon I regress back into my mischevious mode and
at the tail end of a qso on one of the heavily-used 2M machines I'll
drop in the "Ten 'Fo Good Buddy" routine just see what happens. On a
couple of these occasions yup, sure enough here cometh one of the
self-appointed repeater cops with a stern lecture about "proper
operating practices". I just leave well enough alone and listen to all
the squelch tails which pop up. A buddy told me that one of these
goofballs got up at a meeting and asked "what can we do about w3rv?"

You need to gain another 7 years in the saddle before you'll be 65
which is THE major milestone. After you hit that one you have not only
a free pass to having both feet in your mouth but it's also *expected*.
Geezerhood is a great, you'll enjoy it no end.

Takle care all 73 Tom KI3R Belle Vernon Pa.

w3rv

Mike Coslo wrote:
Many people lament that there is not enough interest
in Ham radio by young people.

Agreed - but how much would be enough?

There are often many reasons given for this deficiency,
and somewhat less "fixes".

One of the reasons that is given very often is that
Amateur radio is in some sort of competition with the
Internet.

Every activity is in competition with every other.

What is the competition between the two? In order to use
the internet,
one must of course have a computer. It must be connected to the
internet, through one of several methods. Once the person has
learned to
turn on the computer, open a few programs or so, they have
the necessary skills to work the internet.

Yup. But there's mo

A computer has many uses, from being a glorified typewriter to a
serious research/calculation device to gaming to producing all sorts of
multimedia stuff.

Most decent white-collar jobs today require computer skills. Many
blue-collar jobs also require them.

Amateur radio on the other hand, requires that a radio be used,
which
requires some skill in operating. An antenna system needs to be
connected to this radio. Whereas it is possible to have
everything set
up for the Ham, most young people do not have the resources to
have
someone set up their system. Coupled with the possibility of
putting an
antenna in operation that only costs a few dollars, or even
less if the
youngster has good scrounging skills, the likelihood is that
they would
design and put up their own antenna, another skill needed.

So there is a large difference in the skills needed for the
two hobbies.

You're missing a couple of other points, Mike.

Computers are all over the place, inexpensive, and often available as
hand-me-downs. PCs only a few years old can be had for next-to-nothing.


Some people live in places where putting up an antenna - *any* antenna
- is banned by CC&Rs. A family isn't likely to move so that Junior can
put up a G5RV.

Cell phones as competition? While there is a temptation
to snipe "Get Real!", I'll address those too.

What would make a person decide to take up Cell phone
use as a hobby?
Cell phones allow you to talk to people that you know
(for the most
part) and operate in the same manner as a regular telephone,
save that
you take the cell with you, and you are generally tied in
the same
building with a standard telephone. It's hard to imagine
someone doing
that as a hobby, although there are a lot of people who
spend a lot of time using them.

You missed the point, Mike.

Before cell phones became inexpensive and ubiquitous, the
average person didn't have many options for personal
mobile/portable communications. There was ham radio and
cb and not much else. Cell phones changed all that.

So what makes a youngster decide to become a Ham?

Same things that make anyone else.

We can try using the input of those who became Hams at a
young age.
Most of what I have heard is that the person was very
interested in the
technical aspects involved with getting on the air.
Making antennas,
building rigs, and getting them on the air was a big
part of the attraction.

I was one of those people - licensed at age 13. With no
real help from the parents, btw.

In the end, I believe that it is young people
that have a technical
interest that will likely become Hams.

More complex than that.

There are three basic areas of interest involved:

1) Technical (likes to fool around with radio stuff)

2) Operating (likes the actual operating experience)

3) Communicating (likes the message content more than
the medium)

Most hams' reasons for getting into the ARS are a mixture
of the three.

For example, I know some DXers whose main focus is #2. They
love the thrill of the chase, hunting down the new ones, etc.
Their stations are technical wonders - but the technical stuff
is simply a means to an end, not the end in itself.

Then there are the ragchew types who have real long-term friendships
on-air. Their focus is mainly #3.

Or the techno types who are always working on a project but rarely on
the air. Once they get something working really well, the excitement is
gone and they're off to something else.

And that, I believe, is the crux of the issue.

I think it's more complex.

America is not a place that encourages those who might be
thinking of a
technical career. We have a tendency to encourage a more
"pop culture"
outlook, which as often as not discounts actual learning
for "street
cred", and actually turns the smart person into an object of
ridicule.
There are levels, and there are levels. If a person is
intelligent, and
wants a good livelihood, you will find careers that are
acceptable. You
can be a movie star, or perhaps a lawyer. A whole spectrum
follows, but
engineering and the technical fields are not very high on that
list.

Agreed.

How often is the Techie portrayed as a sort of Bill Nye,
the science guy type (at best).

How many TV shows and movies ever depict engineering or
technical folks at all, compared to other fields like health
care or law enforcement?

How about the smart woman who takes off her glasses
and suddenly becomes the hot babe?

Bailey Quarters. Although she's hot with the glasses *on*, as well..

Professor Frink on "The Simpsons"?
Pop culture is not kind to the technical types.

Been that way for a long time, Mike.

My experiences with programs like "bring your sons and
daughters to
work day" shows that almost none of the kids is even thinking
of a
technical field. A lot want to be lawyers.

Or business types, or a lot of other things.

Once in the past, we were scared into thinking that maybe
science and
technology was maybe not such a bad thing. That happened when
the commies launched Sputnik.

Yeah - who'd a thunk they could do something like that?

Suddenly it seemed important that at least
some of our kids decided to work in the sciences. Hopefully
we will
decide that again without having to be shocked into it.

No, today is worse. The society seems unshockable. Look at where
so much stuff today is made...

I am pretty firmly convinced that until we stop catering
to the least
common denominator, until we stop marginalizing the
technically and
scientifically inclined, we will not find many youngsters
who want to come into our hobby.

The fact of the matter is that amateur radio has always been
a rather specialized activity anyway.

I graduated high school in 1972 - the golden age of space
and technology, right?

In my high school of 2500 boys there were at most six licensed
hams. In the girls' school next door there were *none*. 5000
middle class kids in suburban Philly, going to schools where the
emphasis was on math and science, and there were but a handful of
hams. And this was in an era before CC&Rs, cable TV, VCRs, cell
phones, PCs, etc.



73 de Jim, N2EY

The most popular highschool technical activity back then was working on
cars. A kid with a few tools and skills could get a few dollars
together, buy an old heap and get on the road.

"Caveat Lector" wrote in message
news:MWome.7049$vp.262@fed1read07...

Oh yeah -- take a look at San Diego youth training -- URL:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/n...-1mi7hams.html

Only one of several schools here that are training school kids

So what are you doing to get more "young'uns" into the Amateur Radio
Service
?
--
CL -- I doubt, therefore I might be !


So what am I doing trying to get young folks into amateur radio?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HamRadioHelpGroup


With all due regards to UALLbeware ...
Jim AA2QA