Len:

You are right, they do look like a little like a dutch boy with his
finger stuck in a dyke.

The only part which amazes me is that they fail to see or feel the
flood waters which have already risen above their heads. This is all
going on and no law, person or group even slows it a bit. Progress
has a life of it owns, it waits for no man, no group, no law...

Funny thing is, amateur radio was implemented with the idea these
"experimenters" would give back to the community in advances in the
field--somewhere this got totally reversed and now they cry for more
laws and regulations to halt progress--now I have never seen a better
display of insanity!

But, somehow they think they can argue this as a "service" to their
fellow citizens. Krist, the egyptian high priests who held their whole
nation hostage were more progressive! At least they made good durable
mummies...

John

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: John Smith on Jul 2, 1:24 am

Dee:

If one ever gets serious about using HF for video, and HS data
transmission, this:
http://www.thiecom.de/english/?g313i/
is an excellent investment. The digital signal can be pulled
directly
off the PCI bus in the computer and fed to software. This company
supplies the software framework for just about anything you can
imagine, if you know how to code or know someone who does--the sky
is
the limit...

John, lots of us know of data compression and maybe a few
radio amateurs will acknowledge the elegant work of Claude
Elwood Shannon back in 1947. But, that is really NOT the
issue in here. Status quondam is the issue.

Even worse, it is the stubborn, hidebound, refusal to break
out of the antiquated standards and practices of pre-WW2
times to meld with the rest of the world of modern times.

The only "code" allowed by these dino-denizens of the past
is MORSE code. Anything else, such as (horrors) "source code"
is nothing but a bunch of NOPs with an occasional HCF. Those
that have bought into it and passed the morse test will do
more flaunting of their morsemanship than a convention of
actors in Hollywood bragging of their credits. [they have
no Variety]

Using "examples" of half-GigaByte files "expected to be sent
over little teeny narrowbanded enclaves of spectrum is itself
an example of their non-thinking, non-research, non-educated
attempts to stall any sort of progress. They can't do the
numbers (despite flaunting of non-amateur titles), won't
bother with looking up things, everything-is-just-fine-as-
when-they-first-joined-long-ago-thankyouverymuch.

Case in point: DRM (Digital Radio Mondial). Digitized audio
on HF, now being transmitted (over two dozen programs now
listed), capable of overcoming the selective fading common
to the "wow" heard so many times on analog BC, tested for over
four years on HF. High-quality audio fitting within a 12 KHz
bandwidth, an occupancy no greater than present-day audio on
broadcast. DRM may not be the technical best, but it IS a
WORKING system. It works on LF, MF, HF, VHF. By test.

A few years ago in here a bunch of narrowband, narrowthinker
olde-fahrts exclaimed and exclaimed that "it won't work!"
That was during the successful testing phase of DRM. The
same group also decried GMDSS as "unworkable!" even though
the maritime community had already researched and tested it
and approved it worldwide. Morse code on 500 KHz MUST continue
they said, ignoring what the SOLAS folks had already determined.

The general idea of DRM, scaled for 2.5 KHz voice-only audio
bandwidths is eminently possible on HF. Effects of selective
fading on HF will be less than the wider bandwidth of broadcast
audio. Further, since it already IS in digital form, it is
applicable to direct-sequence spreading and the ability to put
many signals on a given band without any mutual interference.
The narrowband, narrowthink amateurs will have none of that.
They will yank out the "12 KHz bandwidth" of DRM and shout it
is way too broad for amateur use...while they totally ignore
the scaling that can (and sometimes is) done for narrower band
audio.

The narrowband, narrowthink status quo-ists will demand "already-
done, tested, approved, on-the-market" products to "demonstrate"
that it will work. [they have in the past in here] :-) In
other words, "don't bother me until I see the ads in QST" kind
of mentality which seems to have become standard on the USA
amateur scene. The narrowband, narrowthink hams are content
with their narrow slices of spectrum, the bands appropriately
sliced up into "bandplan" segments like separator boards in a
sandbox. They have achieved Titles in their federal authority
and haughtily parade that to play in the "nicer" parts of the
sandbox.

Analog-ONLY is the cry of the narrowband narrowthink group.
Keep it SIMPLE so that the most theory they need is just
Ohm's Law of Resistance. The have resistance to anything more
complex. Stay with the gamesmanship, enter the contests for
"radiosport" and win nice certificates (suitable for framing).
Forget the exploring of the new, trying out something different.
Too HARD to think. Follow preset rules and fill in the blanks.
Big Brother in the NE will protect them. Offshore designers
and makers will provide they radio toys, all their bells and
whistles. :-(

"Shannon's Law?" Ain't in Part 97. Fergit it...

Did anybody else catch the scatalogical implications of the mis-spelling?

Jim



"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Len:

You are right, they do look like a little like a dutch boy with his finger
stuck in a dyke.

RST Engineering wrote:
Did anybody else catch the scatalogical implications of the mis-spelling?

No scatalogical implication, no reference as to where in the dyke. I
hope it is just a mispelling


Jim



"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Len:

You are right, they do look like a little like a dutch boy with his finger
stuck in a dyke.

Poor Lennie the loser, being such a historian on military and all, just
can't get that E5 Chevron arrangement right yet. Oh well....we know how you
are Lennie me boy. Too bad you don't realize it.

All this radio experience is as a what ? Operator? Gee Lennie, how hard is
it to push the button and yap into a mic? Or maybe it was you were a fixer
eh? I've seen the Army Tech Manuals, What was your echolon me boy?
Field perhaps? Not even allowed to change a component, other than a tube.
Hope your TV-7/U tester was in top notch shape.

Does the MOS 31V mean anything to you ?


Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Fri 1 Jul 2005 22:42

wrote in message

Oh, my, Dannie boy finished a whole six-pack of Billy Beer and
now is feeling very "brave." Time for him to garbage-mouth
some veterans...

Poor Lennie the loser is a real trip. Military comms and CB radio.

And military VLF as a civilian...and military and civilian radio
as a civilian...and civilian maritime radio as a civilian...and
civilian mobile radio NOT CB as a civilian...plus lots of
microwave radio things for the government and civil life as a
civilian...leaving out civilian broadcasting as a civilian.

Then compares it to ham radio.

Couldn't possibly do the mighty, noble, top-of-the-line, cutting-
edge manual morse that the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society does,
no sir!

Bottom line, the only thing they have in common
is the fact they operate on HF radio....period.

WRONGO, Mongo. VLF, LF, MF, HF, VHF, UHF, microwaves (assorted
bands) on up to 25 GHz.

Bottom line is he couldn't pass the CW test, and gave up.

You betcha, sweatbreath. WASTE OF TIME forty-six years ago.
Still a waste of time for me.

Still a waste of time for anyone who wants to enter the hobby
of amateur radio through FCC-regulated testing.

Now we get to
listen to him brag about shoving a broom around a transmitter site while a
lower ranked enlisted man. BIG DEAL.

Poor Dannie boy, drunk as a skunk and stinkier.

Dannie boy, you must stop ranking people according to YOUR
accomplishments.

"Lower ranked?" As an E-5, three up and one down, I was in the
lowest category of NCOs, true. Supervisor, not a broom pusher.

Speaking honestly, sweatbreath, I wouldn't put YOU in any QSY
or maintenance task back then in the early 1950s. The gear was
just too complex for someone who thinks the top-of-the-line in
radio is doing manual morse. Tsk.

Nobody did manual morse at ADA/RUAP back in the 1950s, Dannie.
TTY and RTTY. One had to read in order to put the right tapes
on the right machines. Reading would have been too difficult
for you. Tsk, tsk.

Let us know when you sober up...

wrote in message
ups.com...
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Fri 1 Jul 2005 15:51


"Ginger Raveir" wrote in message
...

Wake up and smell the coffee. Ham radio is and has been for many
years, a dead and dying hobby, where today old white men form the
core of the hobby.

Thats it....bring in the "Ham Radio is a racist organization".

It isn't our fault more folks other than "white" dont join up. I have
seen
no obstructions put up to keep them out. So who is at fault here?

You might look down at the big white sheet you are wearing.

You know the one I mean, the uniform of the Kode Klucks Klan.

Right.

OK, you understand. Now what are you going to DO about it?

At least get it washed first. THIS year. Yech.




I didn't know you were so familiar with the rights of the KKK. Please give
us more information. I am sure the FBI would be interested.....go head
dork.

Dan/W4NTI

"Hey Boy Riley" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
link.net...
My neighbor just got a 7500 NAL to pay. He lives in a falling down
trailor and his wife works to support him.

Oh...he is a Freebander, or should I say...he was a Freebander.

And you call hams stupid?

Dan/W4NTI

"Freebander" wrote in message
news:iog26rbfbpcu5du.010720051029@kirk...
is it possible for a bunch of ancient/decrepit old men to get more
anemic, senile, ridiculous, loathsome or "dumbed down?"

amateurs take all the prizes when it come to stupidity

"Kim" wrote in message
m...
"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...



Yes she did....then proceeded to show us how ignorant she was/is.

Proof positive of the dumbing down of Amateur Radio....IMHO.

Dan/W4NTI



And, you're proof positive of what alcohol can do to a 1/2 way decent
mind.

Kim W5TIT




A NAL from the FCC is not worth the paper it is printed
on. The FCC has no authority to collect.



They don't have to collect it. They just pass it down the line to the next
agency of the Federal Government that does.

FCC did it job just fine.

Dan/W4NTI

wrote in message
oups.com...
From: "Dan/W4NTI"Dum****Dan_southern-fried_dip****@KKK_R_US on Fri 1
Jul 2005 22:35

There it is folks, a disgruntled CBer that couldn't learn the code and
failed his ham test.

So much for Lennie the loser.

(of course now he will deny he actually tried to take the test.....well at
least that is how he remembers it).

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Dannie thinks he is kicking stray dogs again...

I DID take THE test...with the FCC...in Chicago...at the beginning
of March, 1956. For a First Class Radiotelephone (Commercial)
Operator license. Passed. One sitting, interrupted only by a fire
drill in the Federal building that day.

NEVER took a ham test with the FCC, VEC, or FDA.

Took a couple of practice written tests on the Internet...passed
them, too. No problem. Rather low-level knowledge of radio,
mostly memorization of existing regulations.

Has Dannie ever taken any COLLEGE LEVEL ENGINEERING COURSES?
And the TESTS that go with those? I have. Passed them, too.

Actually, I've "passed" the most stringent TEST of all...using
and applying gained knowledge to insure a paycheck arrived
regularly from my employer (as an electronics design engineer...
and income derived for my partner-ship (which involved a base
and mobile radio requiring that FCC Radiotelephone license).
Passed those, too.

Just what DID Dannie Dip**** "pass" besides gas and a morse
code test? "Out" maybe?

Have a nice evening down at the VFW hall tonight. Try to avoid
that quadruplegic lest you get beat up again.

Temper fry.


Very impresive indeed Lennie. Got any proof? Your the one that demand
proof all the time....put it up right here. You have a scanner, right?

I never had a need for the 1st or 2nd commercial. Most to all of my
electronics technicial work was done with military contractors, or
companies that had a 1st ph there already. Of course you do realize that
all the first pnones and seconds were just dropped away. So they really
didn't amount to much anyway.

Sorta like the ham tests of today. And hey good deal on passing the on-line
tests of today. Pre teen age children do the same with ease. What does
that tell you Lennie?

I don't belong to the VFW Lennie. They didn't want any Vietnam Vets to join
a few years ago (course they want us now), so I gave them their wish. I
am a lifetime member of the DAV however. Oh you know them don't ya Lennie?
Only way to get in is to be disabled while in military service and have a
service connected rating.

We don't have a local branch I'm sorry to say. I may join with the Vietnam
Veterans of America, ain't decided just yet.

See ya.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Fri 1 Jul 2005 15:51


"Ginger Raveir" wrote in message
...

Wake up and smell the coffee. Ham radio is and has been for many
years, a dead and dying hobby, where today old white men form the
core of the hobby.

Thats it....bring in the "Ham Radio is a racist organization".

It isn't our fault more folks other than "white" dont join up. I have
seen
no obstructions put up to keep them out. So who is at fault here?

You might look down at the big white sheet you are wearing.

You know the one I mean, the uniform of the Kode Klucks Klan.

Right.

OK, you understand. Now what are you going to DO about it?

At least get it washed first. THIS year. Yech.




break

I didn't know you were so familiar with the rights of the KKK. Please give
us more information. I am sure the FBI would be interested.....go head
dork.

The KKK, as well as, the Nazi's, the commies all have the same rights
as the rest of us. There are those at the FBI that would like to change
that but thier it is

as to the uniforms of KKK's that info is in the public domain

Dan/W4NTI

"A dyke (or dike) is a stone or earthen wall constructed as a defense
or as a boundary. The best known form of dyke is a construction built
along the edge of a body of water to prevent it from flooding onto an
adjacent lowland. However dykes have also been built as field
boundaries and as military defenses. More on this type of dyke can be
found in the article on dry-stone dykes."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyke_(construction)

I fail to really see your point, however, I did not miss the fact you
point to your lack of education, I wonder if that was really your
intent?

John

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Did anybody else catch the scatalogical implications of the
mis-spelling?

Jim



"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Len:

You are right, they do look like a little like a dutch boy with his
finger stuck in a dyke.

From: "John Smith" on Sat 2 Jul 2005 13:24

Len:

You are right, they do look like a little like a dutch boy with his
finger stuck in a dyke.

Tsk, clever wordplay in this heavily-homophobic group of PCTA
extras isn't going to be noticed much...:-)

The only part which amazes me is that they fail to see or feel the
flood waters which have already risen above their heads. This is all
going on and no law, person or group even slows it a bit. Progress
has a life of it owns, it waits for no man, no group, no law...

Well, my take on THIS group of worshippers at the Church
of St. Hiram is that they are (unconsciously) try to hold
back the time. They seem to long for an earlier time when
they got started in ham radio, at least three decades past.
By holding onto those "early days" they feel they can stave
off encroaching age.

Three decades and more ago were a "simpler time" in radio.
Most radios were analog. Only a few high-end models had
things like digital readout of frequency, for example. DSP
was a thing for the future. These old timers could barely
understand basic analog circuits in "radio." Give them a
digital thing and they were lost. ["whuzzat? a lil bug?
we don' need no stinkin' digital! give us "radio!"]

Claude Shannon gave the entire communications world his laws
in 1947. Trouble is, Claude's landmark paper used a Teletype
as an example. Olde-fahrt morsemen didn't pay attention,
thought it didn't apply to their beloved "code." It did, and
the ARRL Handbook early on had the (unreferenced) statement of
noise versus bandwidth (of filters) and never went much farther.
Few hams had teleprinters in 1948. They had beloved MORSE
CODE! Supposedly morse code information "does not apply" to
Shannon's Laws...and has been argued as such in here in the
past (mainly by a now-SK Missourian). Sheesh. (to be polite)

As Yogi Berra said, "The future ain't what it usta' be..."

Funny thing is, amateur radio was implemented with the idea these
"experimenters" would give back to the community in advances in the
field--somewhere this got totally reversed and now they cry for more
laws and regulations to halt progress--now I have never seen a better
display of insanity!

It's the antithesis of experimentation. A "fill in the blanks"
kind of rote work that pleases those who just want to play in
a sandbox and pretend to be "pioneers advancing the state of
the (merchandising) art." They know NOT of what is behind their
front panels but they take emotional sustenance in feeling the
nice knobs and admiring the glowing digital displays. They
READ of experimentation once in a while in QST, learn the buzz-
words (from the ads therein) and pretend to know state-of-the-
art. Shrug.

But, somehow they think they can argue this as a "service" to their
fellow citizens. Krist, the egyptian high priests who held their whole
nation hostage were more progressive! At least they made good durable
mummies...

Tut, Tut! :-)