Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"ham radio truth" wrote in message
groups.com...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.

2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -

YES to CW or NO to CW makes no difference whatsoever Mike.
Not at this stage of the game. Ham radio is a dying hobby, period.

The average age of the USA ham operator is a staggering 64 Years.
There are FIVE TIMES more hams dying off per month than there
are new hams comming into the hobby and license renewals combined.



So? we concentrate on the group of folks that have the TIME to do Ham Radio
these days. The retired or soon to be retired group. Let the youth text
all they want, chase women, find drugs....so what.

The idea that Ham radio is dying is pretty weird. I don't see any
evidence for it. The closest thing to evidence is that fall-off we are
going through right now. And that falloff is due mostly to the "honeydew
hams" who got their license so that could tell the hubby or the missus
to pick up bread or milk on the way home. Those folks haven't been
active in years.

And as for the average age of hams? America is aging, aging, aging
overall. BFD. Our club has a lot of brand new Hams who are older than
me. They are enthusiastic, and having a heck of a good time.

I'm glad to have them on board.


80% of young people 2-day have text messaging cellphones.
Also there's AOL Instant Messenger or similar Chatroom software
plus Apple IPOD Podcasting and similar technology. (just wait till
the wireless IPOD hits around October 2005 just in time for xmas!)


None of which has a thing to do with Ham Radio.

Why are the instant messenger and chatroom stuff touted as some sort of
hi-tech alternative to Ham radio. People who think it is just have it WRONG!


What young person, apart from the occasional geek, would want to
invest time and money in archaic, obsolete, analog technology based
ham radio in 2005? Oh yes there will be a few, but for the most part
today's young people wouldn't know ham radio from CB and could
not care less either.



Ham Radio is and always has been a group of radio geeks.

I is a geek. Anyone have a problem with that?

Only recently has
this become a "problem".

Some think we need people with street cred. Fresh people.



I see no problem with a much smaller, more
dedicated group. We don't need 700,000 licensed hams if only a small
percentage are actually licensed. As a matter of fact I believe you will
find that the membership of the ARRL are the REAL ACTIVE AMATEURS. Not the
give a way Tech ticket. These are the folks that wanted a free cell phone.
Go for it.
Real hams know what this hobby/service is supposed to be. The rest of you
are at the bottom of the learning curve.

Perhaps if you would pay attention to those that have been there and KNOW
what its about....your life would be a bit easier (?).

Possibly, but then they would have to find somethin' else to bitch about.


Tune across HF any evening and tell me how many young people
you hear on SSB. Most of the guys I hear on 75 Meters are long
retired and most callsigns I recall from just 10 Years ago are either
in the local nursing home or 6 feet under the earth.



Which is exactly how 75 has been since the 1950s. Or earlier for all I
know.

YOUR POINT IS?

How about this for a *counterpoint*? During Field day weekend, I heard
an obviously very young lady answering my CQ. I was in the middle of a
major run at the high power station, and it would have been easier to
ignore her. I had to have her repeat the callsign and info several times
- I think she was in the missing the front teeth stage. After about a
minute we finally got the exchange completed I said "thank you honey",
and she said "Thank YOU!". That part came through loud and clear.

SO THERE, bitchy negative type hams!



Read the handwriting boys. At this rate Ham Radio will be dead
by 2030.


No it wont. Changed.....but not dead. You of course will be long gone.
Good riddance.

Snort!


- Mike KB3EIA -

From: on Thurs 30 Jun
2005 17:21


"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
Kim wrote:
"Michael Coslo" wrote in message

Yeah, "haters" was the wrong choice of word in retrospect.

- Mike KB3EIA -


No it's not Mike. There are Morse Code haters out there. Lennie the
loser is one of the main ones.

"Loser?!?" :-)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Do you want me to give a precis of what I've WON out of life so
far or are you content to vent your enlarged spleen of anger
on what you think I wrote before? I can do that but it only
arouses more ANGER and assorted assinine abuse from the PCTA
crowd here.

There is NO "hate" except for all the Coders angry and upset that
no-coders don't give the Coders the "respect and honor" the Coders
think they deserve. In AMATEURISM, that small segment of the
entire radio world.

The U.S. amateur radio morse code TEST should go, Dannie. The
Coders will go soon enough. The code TEST has outlived its
usefulness long ago.

The Coslonaut started this thread with a pre-loaded emotional-
content-wrapped "question." Coslonaut does that from time to
time, desiring to be a Mover and Shaker in this newsgroup. He
might mean well (sometimes) but he has bought into the morse
myths and bravely trying to become an olde-fahrt hamme.

On your other posting -

Speaking of AC plugs Lennie the loser....how about doing us all a favor and
show your "eeee" competence at a level we all know you are at? Stick your
index finger and the little finger into the AC plug and write us a technical
report on the results.

It's IEEE, not "eeee," Double-Dipped Southern-Fried Dumm**** Dannie.
Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, a professional
association. Roughly a quarter million members worldwide.

LONG before I joined the IEEE in 1973 I knew better than to "stick
fingers into an AC socket." Nominal 115 VAC can be LETHAL, Dannie.

Follow the "30-30" rule: Anything above 30 Volts and/or above
30 mA source current can cause heart fibrilation and resulting
death...if the conducting path is through the upper chest area.

At present I can measure the voltage across an AC outlet. With
precision I would use my 4 1/2 digit DVM (made in France), secondly
with one of my 3 1/2 digit DVMs (made in China), thirdly with my
home-built expanded scale voltmeter that is part of a variable
autotransformer controlled 135 W AC source for measuring power
supply stability. For just presence or absence of AC voltage, a
cute little non-contacting capacitive-sensing light/clicker will
do (made in China, bought at Lowes)...or just plugging in a 115
V lamp. No problem. I would have listed my AC chart recorder but
I ran out of paper about 9 years ago and haven't had a need to use
it since. Got that in a trade for other things even longer ago.
It still works fine without chart paper but only for short periods
of about 20 minutes using 8 1/2 x 11 paper.

Putz.

Now now, Dannie. You are UPSET and wanting to FIGHT with someone.

Did you lose a fight with that quadruplegic down at VFW hall again?

Don't try to "tell" me about radio communications, Dannie, you will
only make things worse, annoy me, and waste my time (and everyone
else's). You don't have the semantic/literary skills to outclass
me. [you never did] The best thing you are able to do in here is
to copy the antics of the Tennessee Talibanian and none of that is
any sort of "discussion." Tsk, tsk. I had hoped you were better
than that, but now you've dashed any optimistic hope with the use
of ethnic pejoratives that are not your native language.

Go work some DX on HF with CW. It will make you feel better. You
aren't even third-rate at computer-modem comms.

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

an_old_friend wrote:

Michael Coslo wrote:


What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.


2. Not having to learn Morse code.


YMMV

I do not face that choice at all Itried for years to learn

Was there a specific problem? I had a lot of trouble with Tinnitus,
and
getting hung up on one letter, and letting the rest of the message go
by
("flying behind the plane")

- Mike KB3EIA -


As I have mentioned before, my ex had a 70% hearing loss in each ear
and
tinnitus in both ears. Yet he passed the code. He just cranked the
volume up and used headphones. If he can do it, anyone can.

I won't deny it can be done - obviously, since my problems are
similar. I
doubt I'll ever be proficient at Morse though. To get an idea of what
it
is like for me, imagine concentrating as hard as you can on something.
Can I do it? Sure. But not for extended periods.

Certainly turning up the headphones helps, but the levels I use are
fatiguing, and they sometimes annoy the other ops.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I understand that completely. If my ex was practicing code without the
headphones, I had to leave not only the room, but that floor of the
house.
If he was using headphones, I could hear it more than well enough to
copy
his practice sessions. The point is that he passed the test.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Exactly Dee.....these anti-code dunderheads don't get it. It is mostly a
matter of dedication and persistence to learn Morse. They obviously have
neither.

No it is matter of law, by what power does the FCC have to continue
this Morse Code Welfare program. Nothing in the constitution, and
nothing anymore in the the treaty. and no one has shown how any
provision of the sonstitution allows the FCC to without access to hf
based on the skill in the mode. The FCC has ruled in the past that it
does not have a case to make.

But ultimately one thing many of them do lack is desire, desire to
learn Morse is a requirement it is indeed one of the most vital
requirement to learn the mode.

Why don't they have this desire? I don't know. but maybe you should
look to seeling the mode better, if you think it is important



Dan/W4NTI




If you think the FCC, Riley Hollingsworth, or the ARRL have the
best interests of ham radio in mind, then I have a bridge I would
like to sell you.

John Smith wrote:
Dan:

Now I ask you, "What boob would use SSTV?"

Me.

A webcam on a computer, compressing and digitizing the video and then
converting to an audio signal and finally delivering it to a
transceiver, to be picked up and decoded at the other end and fed to a
soundcard/computer monitor produces a MUCH clearer sharper and more
fps... SSTV is for dinosaurs!!!

Sometimes you write unusual things.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"ham radio truth" wrote in message
groups.com...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.

2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -

YES to CW or NO to CW makes no difference whatsoever Mike.
Not at this stage of the game. Ham radio is a dying hobby, period.

The average age of the USA ham operator is a staggering 64 Years.
There are FIVE TIMES more hams dying off per month than there
are new hams comming into the hobby and license renewals combined.



So? we concentrate on the group of folks that have the TIME to do Ham
Radio these days. The retired or soon to be retired group. Let the
youth text all they want, chase women, find drugs....so what.

The idea that Ham radio is dying is pretty weird. I don't see any evidence
for it. The closest thing to evidence is that fall-off we are going
through right now. And that falloff is due mostly to the "honeydew hams"
who got their license so that could tell the hubby or the missus to pick
up bread or milk on the way home. Those folks haven't been active in
years.

And as for the average age of hams? America is aging, aging, aging
overall. BFD. Our club has a lot of brand new Hams who are older than me.
They are enthusiastic, and having a heck of a good time.

I'm glad to have them on board.


80% of young people 2-day have text messaging cellphones.
Also there's AOL Instant Messenger or similar Chatroom software
plus Apple IPOD Podcasting and similar technology. (just wait till
the wireless IPOD hits around October 2005 just in time for xmas!)

None of which has a thing to do with Ham Radio.

Why are the instant messenger and chatroom stuff touted as some sort of
hi-tech alternative to Ham radio. People who think it is just have it
WRONG!


What young person, apart from the occasional geek, would want to
invest time and money in archaic, obsolete, analog technology based
ham radio in 2005? Oh yes there will be a few, but for the most part
today's young people wouldn't know ham radio from CB and could
not care less either.



Ham Radio is and always has been a group of radio geeks.

I is a geek. Anyone have a problem with that?

Only recently has this become a "problem".

Some think we need people with street cred. Fresh people.



I see no problem with a much smaller, more dedicated group. We don't
need 700,000 licensed hams if only a small percentage are actually
licensed. As a matter of fact I believe you will find that the
membership of the ARRL are the REAL ACTIVE AMATEURS. Not the give a way
Tech ticket. These are the folks that wanted a free cell phone. Go for
it.
Real hams know what this hobby/service is supposed to be. The rest of
you are at the bottom of the learning curve.

Perhaps if you would pay attention to those that have been there and KNOW
what its about....your life would be a bit easier (?).

Possibly, but then they would have to find somethin' else to bitch about.


Tune across HF any evening and tell me how many young people
you hear on SSB. Most of the guys I hear on 75 Meters are long
retired and most callsigns I recall from just 10 Years ago are either
in the local nursing home or 6 feet under the earth.



Which is exactly how 75 has been since the 1950s. Or earlier for all I
know.

YOUR POINT IS?

How about this for a *counterpoint*? During Field day weekend, I heard an
obviously very young lady answering my CQ. I was in the middle of a major
run at the high power station, and it would have been easier to ignore
her. I had to have her repeat the callsign and info several times - I
think she was in the missing the front teeth stage. After about a minute
we finally got the exchange completed I said "thank you honey", and she
said "Thank YOU!". That part came through loud and clear.

SO THERE, bitchy negative type hams!



Read the handwriting boys. At this rate Ham Radio will be dead
by 2030.


No it wont. Changed.....but not dead. You of course will be long
gone. Good riddance.

Snort!


- Mike KB3EIA -



Wake up and smell the coffee. Ham radio is and has been for many
years, a dead and dying hobby, where today old white men form the
core of the hobby.

From: "K=D8=88B" on Fri 1 Jul 2005 01:47


wrote

We got REA in the summer of 1954 when I was 14 years old. Running water=
too.
(I was 8 or 9 when I learned Morse.)

73, de Hans, K0HB

Oh, my, a numbers coincidence.

Gee whiz, in late summer of 1954, Army station ADA started moving
to its new site NW of Tokyo.

At 14 years old I didn't much give a rats ass about the fact that an Army =
radio
station was moving to a different spot in Japan. (Come think of it, I sti=
ll
don't give a rats ass.) I was much more excited about getting electric li=
ghts
in our farm buildings and home.

I can understand your "not giving" about others. :-)

Frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a damn for young teeners out in
the boonies suddenly getting ELECTRICITY in 1954! How about that?

Too bad you couldn't have tapped into the 300 KWe out of each of
the 16-cylinder marine diesels running generators at Kashiwa in
1954. Would have lit up your life some...

Of course the main room at Kashiwa transmitter building didn't
have but about 8 transmitters in 1954, there would be 43 Big
Ones in there by 1956 and completion of the move. Not to
mention wire antennas all over the airfield, including full
rhombics. 1 KW minimum, 40 KW maximum RF outputs. Not a single
one of them using on-off keying radiotelegraphy. Sunnuvagun!

When one stood at one end and looked down the row to 150 feet or
so in the distance and saw nothing but high power HF transmitters
side by side on each side, it was bound to have an impression.
Then out in the microwave building with four 24-channel microwave
radio relay terminals that were the main link with anyone that HAD
to be kept ON 24/7. [not to mention the old carrier bays]

Perhaps not as much as suddenly getting electricity where one
had nothing but wind-charged batteries but then that's us "city
boy sissies" I'm sure you'd apply. Life must have been
extraordinarily TOUGH way, way out on the farm. You have my
sympathies. Nothing else. Just sympathies. :-)

dot dot

Mike:

Wake up, SSTV was big news in the 1960's, it is now 45 years later and
they have invented the computer!

Any of the web technology of data encryption/compaction/jpeg/mpeg etc
can be easily adapted to amateur radio though the sound card (if you
have a pci sw receiver card you can do it through other ports and much
more efficiently), think about it.

Why most amateurs are not experimenting with it only emphasizes their
age and inability or unwillingness to stay current with technology.
And, the fact that the sharpest technical people are NOT entering
amateur radio these days...

John

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
John Smith wrote:
Dan:

Now I ask you, "What boob would use SSTV?"

Me.

A webcam on a computer, compressing and digitizing the video and
then converting to an audio signal and finally delivering it to a
transceiver, to be picked up and decoded at the other end and fed
to a soundcard/computer monitor produces a MUCH clearer sharper and
more fps... SSTV is for dinosaurs!!!

Sometimes you write unusual things.

Ginger Raveir wrote:


Wake up and smell the coffee. Ham radio is and has been for many
years, a dead and dying hobby, where today old white men form the
core of the hobby.

Old white men also form the core of the U.S. Senate. Ya want the rest
of the list?

So now what . . . ?

.. . . thought so . .

w3rv

"Ginger Raveir" wrote in message
...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"ham radio truth" wrote in message
groups.com...

"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...

What is more important:

1. Having a license that allows HF access.

2. Not having to learn Morse code.

IOW, is standing on principle, and refusing to learn Morse code a
better
thing than learning it to get the priveliges?

- Mike KB3EIA -

YES to CW or NO to CW makes no difference whatsoever Mike.
Not at this stage of the game. Ham radio is a dying hobby, period.

The average age of the USA ham operator is a staggering 64 Years.
There are FIVE TIMES more hams dying off per month than there
are new hams comming into the hobby and license renewals combined.



So? we concentrate on the group of folks that have the TIME to do Ham
Radio these days. The retired or soon to be retired group. Let the
youth text all they want, chase women, find drugs....so what.

The idea that Ham radio is dying is pretty weird. I don't see any
evidence for it. The closest thing to evidence is that fall-off we are
going through right now. And that falloff is due mostly to the "honeydew
hams" who got their license so that could tell the hubby or the missus to
pick up bread or milk on the way home. Those folks haven't been active in
years.

And as for the average age of hams? America is aging, aging, aging
overall. BFD. Our club has a lot of brand new Hams who are older than me.
They are enthusiastic, and having a heck of a good time.

I'm glad to have them on board.


80% of young people 2-day have text messaging cellphones.
Also there's AOL Instant Messenger or similar Chatroom software
plus Apple IPOD Podcasting and similar technology. (just wait till
the wireless IPOD hits around October 2005 just in time for xmas!)

None of which has a thing to do with Ham Radio.

Why are the instant messenger and chatroom stuff touted as some sort of
hi-tech alternative to Ham radio. People who think it is just have it
WRONG!


What young person, apart from the occasional geek, would want to
invest time and money in archaic, obsolete, analog technology based
ham radio in 2005? Oh yes there will be a few, but for the most part
today's young people wouldn't know ham radio from CB and could
not care less either.



Ham Radio is and always has been a group of radio geeks.

I is a geek. Anyone have a problem with that?

Only recently has this become a "problem".

Some think we need people with street cred. Fresh people.



I see no problem with a much smaller, more dedicated group. We don't
need 700,000 licensed hams if only a small percentage are actually
licensed. As a matter of fact I believe you will find that the
membership of the ARRL are the REAL ACTIVE AMATEURS. Not the give a way
Tech ticket. These are the folks that wanted a free cell phone. Go for
it.
Real hams know what this hobby/service is supposed to be. The rest of
you are at the bottom of the learning curve.

Perhaps if you would pay attention to those that have been there and
KNOW what its about....your life would be a bit easier (?).

Possibly, but then they would have to find somethin' else to bitch about.


Tune across HF any evening and tell me how many young people
you hear on SSB. Most of the guys I hear on 75 Meters are long
retired and most callsigns I recall from just 10 Years ago are either
in the local nursing home or 6 feet under the earth.



Which is exactly how 75 has been since the 1950s. Or earlier for all I
know.

YOUR POINT IS?

How about this for a *counterpoint*? During Field day weekend, I heard an
obviously very young lady answering my CQ. I was in the middle of a major
run at the high power station, and it would have been easier to ignore
her. I had to have her repeat the callsign and info several times - I
think she was in the missing the front teeth stage. After about a minute
we finally got the exchange completed I said "thank you honey", and she
said "Thank YOU!". That part came through loud and clear.

SO THERE, bitchy negative type hams!



Read the handwriting boys. At this rate Ham Radio will be dead
by 2030.


No it wont. Changed.....but not dead. You of course will be long
gone. Good riddance.

Snort!


- Mike KB3EIA -



Wake up and smell the coffee. Ham radio is and has been for many
years, a dead and dying hobby, where today old white men form the
core of the hobby.

I'll be sure to let all the black gentlemen, the women, and the younger
people in our club know that. They seem unaware of such a problem.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Dee wrote, "... only fax and SSTV have a small enough band width to be
practical."

That is not only a ridiculous statement, it is preposterous and shows a
total lack of knowledge of the state of data compaction.

However, it proves you are not aware of what is technically possible and
therefore are in a poor position to advise or inform others and, the sorry
state of amateurs technical savvy in general!

John


Ok then, show me the math that demonstrates you can transmit a one megabyte
picture in seconds on the HF bands using only 300 baud. To get it down to
seconds requires data compression/encryption techniques that can reduce the
data by a 1000 fold.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE