From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Jan 19 2006 7:43 am

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Jan 18, 8:26 pm
wrote:


I didn't write of "amateurism", Len. I wrote of amateur radio.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

You wrote of AMATEUR radio. That is AMATEURISM.

AMATEUR radio is NOT professional radio.


Amateur radio is most assuredly a closed community in that only those
who have passed licensing exams may participate.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, by Heilian Rules: NO ONE can "become
interested" in amateur radio UNLESS they ALREADY have
an amateur radio license! Ergo, those going for their
first amateur radio license exam are "not interested!"

Very ILL-logic, David. ["chicken and egg paradox"]

Your mindset of "closed community" is not only strange
but sociopathic and bigoted. It is imaginative of some
ritualistic group of mystics practicing arcane arts. :-)


You have not done so and you may not participate.

"I may not participate?" Who is to "stop" my interest
in anything? Some two-bit control-freak waving his
federal amateur radio license saying "do I as I command
you?" :-)


Your claim of decades of interest in amateur radio is itself nearly a
decade old.

Much, much OLDER, David? Can't you get ANYTHING right?

I've had an interest in radio in general since the
late 1940s. [can't you remember what your word-enemies
have written in here?]

RADIO (in general) is fascinating stuff to me. So much
so that I made radio-electronics my career choice.

You exhort that "I have no interest," therefore "I cannot
participate." :-)

All because of NOT being granted an amateur radio license.

You still hold no amateur radio license of any class.

Absolutely correct. In March I will have held a
COMMERCIAL RADIO LICENSE (First Class Radiotelephone)
for 50 years!


I don't know a single soul who imagines himself a god of radio.

"Gods of radio" (disguising themselves as mighty macho
morsemen AMATEURS) seem to be soul-less. [hear them
roar!] :-)


I know that you've, at various times, imagined me to be a god of radio.

One can only go by the words you've written, mighty macho
morseman amateur. Takes NO imagination to read that. You
have "laid down rules" that all others must obey, lest they
get the wrath of a self-imagined "god of radio" in here. :-)


Well, one thing is certain. You're no radio amateur.

Not a LICENSED radio amateur.

I've been a hobbyist in radio-electronics since the late 1940s.
That's longer than I've been a PROFESSIONAL in radio-
electronics. Since HOBBY interests hardly ever return anything
on monetary investments, HOBBY activities are classified as
"amateur."

Radio-electronics is fascinating stuff to me, very enjoyable.
I do like to discuss and trade ideas on the subject. I just
don't enjoy being given orders by self-imposed gods of radio
who imagine themselves to be in-charge over moral and ethical
standards in hobby activities.


Don't attempt at giving orders here, Leonard.

Why? Do I impinge on your imagined "bossmanship" in here?

:-)


One does NOT have to be "involved" through federal licensing
to discuss either radio, licensing, or license testing for
amateur radio.

You have discussed (but mostly pontificated) here for many years.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you contradict yourself. Remember, at the
beginning of your "reply" you stated "I have no interest"
in amateur radio...because of not getting an AMATEUR radio
license. :-)


The FCC does NOT require any staffer or commissioner to
have been granted any amateur radio license in order to
MAKE amateur radio regulations OR regulated its use.

That'll be relevant when you are appointed to or hired by the Commission.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

What I wrote is RELEVANT NOW. Search all through Title 47
C.F.R. as you wish but NO commissioner or staff of the FCC
is required to hold, be granted ANY FCC radio license in
order to regulate and enforce ALL of United States civil
radio.


Who has forbidden you to speak?

David Heil.

Heil claims only the already-licensed "are interested" in
amateur radio; i.e., they are "participants." All others
must then have no interest.

That does not bode well for newcomers to amateur radio, does
it? Normal human life expectancy will soon whittle down the
ranks of the already-licensed radio amateurs in the USA
since those without amateur radio licenses are "not interested"
in radio. :-)


When you speak, you speak as one with limited knowledge of the topic.

"As if." :-)

Amateur radio and its activities are NO SECRET. There is NO
secret cabal of radio amateurs who know all there is to know
about radio...thus passing on those secrets to other, already-
licensed radio amateurs who are "interested" and
"participants." :-)


Thanks for the advice. I'll do that about the time you stop your
pontificating and condescension. In other words, I won't have to worry
about it in this lifetime.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. David desires to still be in CONTROL over
what everyone thinks, does, desires! His "lifetime task!" :-)

David is bound and determined to be IN CONTROL of everyone
(whether they like it or not)!


I've been VERY much "involved" with radio for just about
53 years now. Radio. Communications radio.

We all know about that. It isn't amateur radio.

YOU know NOTHING about that. You aren't a "participant" in
my life (thanks be to God). You are NOT a god of radio who
can tell others what to like, dislike, desire, hate, or be
involved in...but you sincerely TRY to do that...


I didn't write "radio". I wrote "amateur radio".

Are we to care "what you wrote?" I thought we were to OBEY
what you wrote.


You're on the outside and you've never been on the inside.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

I AM on the inside right now, writing this. Too cool to be
outside this southern California morning. :-)


At the
professional level, not in some "clubhouse" idea of some
backyard amateurs sitting around thinking they were God's
Gift to the radio world because they have been granted a
federal license to be "hams."

There's the condescension.

I don't "condescend" anything. All I do is state what so many
licensed radio amateurs DO, act like, behave. Some of those
are simply assholes who think their feces emits no odor.
David, you act like one of those.

An AMATEUR radio license grant is simply a permission to operate
under specific federal rules of law. No more. Those who think
it is "more" than that have an imagination at odds with reality.

Having been granted a federal AMATEUR radio license is NOT some
grant to be of better moral or ethical status than anyone else.
Try to get over that imagined power of yours.


Radio amateurs are granted a federal license to be hams.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

The Food and Drug Administration and the Agriculture Department
of the United States determines what is "ham" (and other pork
products)...and regulate its quality.

Only LICENSED radio amateurs are granted permission to operate
on CERTAIN frequencies with CERTAIN modes according to federal
law.

You haven't got one.

I'm not involved with food products and try to avoid contact
with swine. However, sometimes contact with swine is just
unavoidable. :-)

I got my first radio license (from the FCC, testing at their
Chicago field office) a half century ago. It was a
COMMERCIAL radio operator license (i.e., professional).

Please explain why an AMATEUR radio license grant is the ONLY
thing necessary to hold a superior moral, ethical, or
academic viewpoint over others involved in radio. Hmmm?


Talk with them 'til you're blue in the face.

Sorry, there's no Scotch in my blood and I'm not eager to
emulate William Wallace. Wallace was drawn and quartered
some while ago for defying the Crown.

Are you attempting to emulate the Crown in trying to draw
and quarter all of your word-enemies in here? Certainly
appears that way. :-)



With the bestest of regards and a hearty "good luck on this,
now,"

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:24:23 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:26:59 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:

Poseurs DO have that problem..."tripping the light fantastic"
all the time.
You have a point, Leonard. One example would be your involvement in
amateur radio.

how is that?

How is it? Leonard H. Anderson is not now, nor has he ever been a
participant in amateur radio.

another lie

Oh I see just lying again

Please do me the favor of pointing out, if it is within your
capabilities, any statement I've made in my post which is an untruth.
Use some of that vaunted IQ.

your statment that Len anderson is not involed in Amateur Radio

if at no other point (not knowing or needing the full resume on the
subject len) Len became involved in amateur Radion since his 1998
(that is the date isn't) comment on the NPRM

aumsining no earlier involvement in the Amateur Radio he became
involed at that time

therefore your statement that Len is not involved in Ham radio is a
lie




Dave K8MN

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On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:29:59 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 07:43:52 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Jan 18, 8:26 pm

wrote:
Poseurs DO have that problem..."tripping the light fantastic"
all the time.
You have a point, Leonard.

One example would be your involvement in amateur radio.
CAN'T YOU GET ANYTHING RIGHT, DAVID D#######?

more censorsorship more forgery dave

Excuse me, Colonel. You seem to be in over your head. Please point to
any portion of Len's post which I altered in any way.
why did you lie so badly
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On 19 Jan 2006 12:29:11 -0800, wrote:

From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Jan 19 2006 7:43 am

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Jan 18, 8:26 pm
wrote:


I didn't write of "amateurism", Len. I wrote of amateur radio.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

You wrote of AMATEUR radio. That is AMATEURISM.

AMATEUR radio is NOT professional radio.


Amateur radio is most assuredly a closed community in that only those
who have passed licensing exams may participate.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, by Heilian Rules: NO ONE can "become
interested" in amateur radio UNLESS they ALREADY have
an amateur radio license! Ergo, those going for their
first amateur radio license exam are "not interested!"

Very ILL-logic, David. ["chicken and egg paradox"]

logic is not the long suit of Dave or dudly for that matter

Your mindset of "closed community" is not only strange
but sociopathic and bigoted. It is imaginative of some
ritualistic group of mystics practicing arcane arts. :-)
do be careful with those mystic as one of them I almost take exception
there is time and place ofor mytism (just not in Ham Radio)
_________________________________________
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More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Jan 19 2006 7:43 am

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Jan 18, 8:26 pm
wrote:


I didn't write of "amateurism", Len. I wrote of amateur radio.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

You wrote of AMATEUR radio. That is AMATEURISM.

I wrote of amateur RADIO, not "amateurism".

AMATEUR radio is NOT professional radio.

No kidding? Who on earth ever said that it was?

Amateur radio is most assuredly a closed community in that only those
who have passed licensing exams may participate.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, by Heilian Rules: NO ONE can "become
interested" in amateur radio UNLESS they ALREADY have
an amateur radio license!

I didn't say that at all. If you've been interested for decades in
amateur radio (and you've been telling us that for almost a decade), you
aren't really interested in amateur radio. If you had been, you'd have
acted upon your interest.

Ergo, those going for their
first amateur radio license exam are "not interested!"

You aren't going for your first amateur radio license exam. You aren't
doing doodly-squat. Six years ago, you were going for your "Extra right
out of the box". For six years, you've done nothing.

Very ILL-logic, David. ["chicken and egg paradox"]

Your chicken stayed on the same side of the road, all the while
expressing "interest" in roads.

Your mindset of "closed community" is not only strange
but sociopathic and bigoted. It is imaginative of some
ritualistic group of mystics practicing arcane arts. :-)

What I wrote is fact. If you have no license, you may not participate.


You have not done so and you may not participate.

"I may not participate?"

I think you've got it.

Who is to "stop" my interest
in anything?

Let's take amateur radio as an example. So far, the only person stopping
you is you.

You may be "interested" in obtaining a pilot's license. You may tell
anyone on the planet that you have an interest in obtaining a pilot's
license. You may even do so for decades. You may talk at great length
about flying. You may have a few friends who are pilots. You may haunt
a pilot's newsgroup. But you don't become a pilot until you obtain the
license.

Some two-bit control-freak waving his
federal amateur radio license saying "do I as I command
you?" :-)

What've I commanded you to do, Len? :-) :-)


Your claim of decades of interest in amateur radio is itself nearly a
decade old.

Much, much OLDER, David? Can't you get ANYTHING right?

I'm going by what you've told us. Perhaps you supplied erroneous
information.

I've had an interest in radio in general since the
late 1940s. [can't you remember what your word-enemies
have written in here?]

Not "radio", Len. "Amateur radio".

RADIO (in general) is fascinating stuff to me. So much
so that I made radio-electronics my career choice.

Not "radio, Len. "Amateur radio". Nobody makes amateur radio a career
choice.

You exhort that "I have no interest," therefore "I cannot
participate." :-)

You're confused. We're discussing "amateur radio". You've expressed a
decades-long interest. You've told us that for nearly a decade. You've
never acted.

All because of NOT being granted an amateur radio license.

Granted? You've never even made a move toward obtaining the license.
Six years ago, you stated that you were obtaining an "Extra right out of
the box". The box is sealed.

You still hold no amateur radio license of any class.

Absolutely correct.

Yeah, I knew that.

In March I will have held a
COMMERCIAL RADIO LICENSE (First Class Radiotelephone)
for 50 years!

I don't care if you hold it for another fifty years. That doesn't make
you a licensed radio amateur.


I don't know a single soul who imagines himself a god of radio.

"Gods of radio" (disguising themselves as mighty macho
morsemen AMATEURS) seem to be soul-less. [hear them
roar!] :-)

Amateurs! That's right, Len. Radio amateurs are AMATEURS. They enjoy
radio for the love of it. Many of them have had careers in PROFESSIONAL
radio as well. They manage to do both and to tell the difference
between them.

I know that you've, at various times, imagined me to be a god of radio.

One can only go by the words you've written, mighty macho
morseman amateur.

That's right. I've never claimed to be a god of radio.

Takes NO imagination to read that.

To read what, Len?

You
have "laid down rules" that all others must obey, lest they
get the wrath of a self-imagined "god of radio" in here. :-)

I don't lay down rules in amateur radio, Len. The FCC does that.
Besides, you aren't in amateur radio.

I've already told you that I'm not a god of radio and that I don't know
anyone else who believes himself to be a god of radio. Is your
attention span that short?


Well, one thing is certain. You're no radio amateur.

Not a LICENSED radio amateur.

That's the only kind of radio amateur I know of, Len. Any Jack Dandy
who isn't a licensed radio amateur but claims to be a radio amateur is
simply a POSEUR!

I've been a hobbyist in radio-electronics since the late 1940s.

Great. That makes you a radio/electronics hobbyist.

That's longer than I've been a PROFESSIONAL in radio-
electronics.

I'm sure that causes your heart to swell with pride.

Since HOBBY interests hardly ever return anything
on monetary investments, HOBBY activities are classified as
"amateur."

Fine, Len. You're an amateur radio/electronics hobbyist.

Radio-electronics is fascinating stuff to me, very enjoyable.


Great. Enjoy it.

I do like to discuss and trade ideas on the subject.

I'm sure there are a number of newsgroups set up just for guys like you.
I think it'd be nice if you had a place to meet with like-minded
individuals. It might even ease your frustration over years you've
wasted in r.r.a.p.

I just
don't enjoy being given orders by self-imposed gods of radio
who imagine themselves to be in-charge over moral and ethical
standards in hobby activities.

Well, as I've told you, I've never claimed to be a god of radio and I
don't personally know any radio amateurs who consider themselves to be
gods of radio, but I can see how you'd feel uncomfortable and maybe
even a little intimidated in the company of those who have spent decades
practicing a craft.

Don't attempt at giving orders here, Leonard.

Why? Do I impinge on your imagined "bossmanship" in here?

Because you hold no authority to do so.

:-)

:-) :-)

One does NOT have to be "involved" through federal licensing
to discuss either radio, licensing, or license testing for
amateur radio.

You have discussed (but mostly pontificated) here for many years.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you contradict yourself. Remember, at the
beginning of your "reply" you stated "I have no interest"
in amateur radio...because of not getting an AMATEUR radio
license. :-)

Actually, (tsk, tsk, tsk) you're the one who is contradicting himself.
I acknowledged that you've claimed a decades-long interest in amateur
radio but that you've not acted upon that interest. You tend to play
the guy who is just getting ready to enter amateur radio. You've been
getting ready for decades and decades.


The FCC does NOT require any staffer or commissioner to
have been granted any amateur radio license in order to
MAKE amateur radio regulations OR regulated its use.

That'll be relevant when you are appointed to or hired by the Commission.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

Did you find something incorrect in my statement?

What I wrote is RELEVANT NOW.

It might be relevant now, but you aren't--to the FCC or to amateur radio.

Search all through Title 47
C.F.R. as you wish but NO commissioner or staff of the FCC
is required to hold, be granted ANY FCC radio license in
order to regulate and enforce ALL of United States civil
radio.

That'll be relevant to you when and if you are ever hired by or
appointed to the Commission.


Who has forbidden you to speak?

David Heil.

Nope. Not once; not ever. You have, you might remember, told me to
shut up or to go away. Isn't it interesting that you have done
something of which you accuse others?

Heil claims only the already-licensed "are interested" in
amateur radio; i.e., they are "participants." All others
must then have no interest.

You certainly screw things up, Len. That isn't what I've said at all.
The already licensed are participants. I've acknowledged your claimed
interest and I've pointed out that you have yet to act upon it. YOu are
not a participant in amateur radio.

That does not bode well for newcomers to amateur radio, does
it?

Newcomers? Those just licensed? They're radio amateurs, Len. You aren't.

Normal human life expectancy will soon whittle down the
ranks of the already-licensed radio amateurs in the USA
since those without amateur radio licenses are "not interested"
in radio. :-)

Others enter amateur radio. If you entered, you'd be one of them. You
haven't done so. Of of these days, you might achieve neophyte status.
I'm not banking on it.

When you speak, you speak as one with limited knowledge of the topic.

"As if." :-)

*Just* as if.

Amateur radio and its activities are NO SECRET.

No, they aren't. That makes it even more peculiar that a guy with those
decades of interest in amateur radio couldn't have taken the logical
step of acting upon that interest.

There is NO
secret cabal of radio amateurs who know all there is to know
about radio...thus passing on those secrets to other, already-
licensed radio amateurs who are "interested" and
"participants." :-)

How do you know there is no such secret cabal? If it existed, do you
suppose that all would run around blabbing it to you? :-)


Thanks for the advice. I'll do that about the time you stop your
pontificating and condescension. In other words, I won't have to worry
about it in this lifetime.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. David desires to still be in CONTROL over
what everyone thinks, does, desires! His "lifetime task!" :-)

Actually, you (the non-radio amateur) seemed to be telling me what to
do. You aren't in control of my actions on or off the air, Len. I'll
do as I please. You may do as you can.

David is bound and determined to be IN CONTROL of everyone
(whether they like it or not)!

I'm bound and determined to show you up as the clay-footed pretender
that you are.

I've been VERY much "involved" with radio for just about
53 years now. Radio. Communications radio.

We all know about that. It isn't amateur radio.

YOU know NOTHING about that.

There are reams of your pontificating posts, telling us all about it.

You aren't a "participant" in
my life (thanks be to God).

I appreciate the advice and I just thanked Him.

You are NOT a god of radio who
can tell others what to like, dislike, desire, hate, or be
involved in...but you sincerely TRY to do that...

I thought I'd already pointed out the fact that I've never claimed to be
a god of radio, Len. You do have trouble with your memory.

You don't have to like amateur radio. You don't have to dislike amateur
radio. You don't have to desire amateur radio. You don't have to hate
amateur radio. You certainly don't have to be involved in amateur
radio. Happy now?

I didn't write "radio". I wrote "amateur radio".

Are we to care "what you wrote?"

Only if you are interested in accuracy.

I thought we were to OBEY
what you wrote.

You thought "amateur radio" was a command?

You're on the outside and you've never been on the inside.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

I AM on the inside right now, writing this. Too cool to be
outside this southern California morning. :-)

You aren't here in the cozy lodge hall, Len. You're doomed to spend
your days on the outside looking in.


At the
professional level, not in some "clubhouse" idea of some
backyard amateurs sitting around thinking they were God's
Gift to the radio world because they have been granted a
federal license to be "hams."

There's the condescension.

I don't "condescend" anything.

You just did.

All I do is state what so many
licensed radio amateurs DO, act like, behave.

You don't even know "many" licensed radio amateurs. Hams aren't about
to kow-tow to the likes of you.

Some of those
are simply assholes who think their feces emits no odor.
David, you act like one of those.

Maybe you can find a hobby more to your liking--one in which the
long-time participants will hang on your every word.

An AMATEUR radio license grant is simply a permission to operate
under specific federal rules of law.

Precisely.

No more.

....and not a bit less.

Those who think
it is "more" than that have an imagination at odds with reality.

I wonder who those guys are.

Having been granted a federal AMATEUR radio license is NOT some
grant to be of better moral or ethical status than anyone else.

Moral or ethical status? What are you prattling on about?

Try to get over that imagined power of yours.

You seem to have taken a left turn somewhere.

Radio amateurs are granted a federal license to be hams.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

The Food and Drug Administration and the Agriculture Department
of the United States determines what is "ham" (and other pork
products)...and regulate its quality.

How about the part you snipped? You know, the part where you yourself
used the word hams. I guess you were talking about pork product.

Only LICENSED radio amateurs are granted permission to operate
on CERTAIN frequencies with CERTAIN modes according to federal
law.

Thanks for your masterful statement of the obvious. So if a guy didn't
pass the exam granting him an amateur radio license, he wouldn't have
permission to operate on those CERTAIN frequencies with CERTAIN modes
according to federal law. Do you have such a license?

You haven't got one.

I'm not involved with food products and try to avoid contact
with swine. However, sometimes contact with swine is just
unavoidable. :-)

Like, when your gnawing on a pork chop?

I got my first radio license (from the FCC, testing at their
Chicago field office) a half century ago. It was a
COMMERCIAL radio operator license (i.e., professional).

That's irrelevant to the discussion then, isn't it?

Please explain why an AMATEUR radio license grant is the ONLY
thing necessary to hold a superior moral, ethical, or
academic viewpoint over others involved in radio. Hmmm?

Maybe you thought you were in a professional radio ethics discussion, Len.


Talk with them 'til you're blue in the face.

Sorry, there's no Scotch in my blood and I'm not eager to
emulate William Wallace. Wallace was drawn and quartered
some while ago for defying the Crown.

Maybe he was just windy.

Are you attempting to emulate the Crown in trying to draw
and quarter all of your word-enemies in here? Certainly
appears that way. :-)

I don't think of you as a "word-enemy" or "message knuckle", Len. I
prefer to think of you as a horse's patoot.


With the bestest of regards and a hearty "good luck on this,
now,"

I think I've already had pretty good luck on it. Thanks.

Dave K8MN

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:24:23 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:26:59 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:

Poseurs DO have that problem..."tripping the light fantastic"
all the time.
You have a point, Leonard. One example would be your involvement in
amateur radio.
how is that?

How is it? Leonard H. Anderson is not now, nor has he ever been a
participant in amateur radio.

another lie

That's one incorrect.

Oh I see just lying again

Please do me the favor of pointing out, if it is within your
capabilities, any statement I've made in my post which is an untruth.
Use some of that vaunted IQ.

your statment that Len anderson is not involed in Amateur Radio

That's two incorrect. Actually, it is the same incorrect answer twice.
Len isn't involved or "involed" in amateur radio. He is not a participant.

if at no other point (not knowing or needing the full resume on the
subject len) Len became involved in amateur Radion since his 1998
(that is the date isn't) comment on the NPRM

I'm sorry, that too is incorrect. Len's submission of comments to the
FCC do not make him a participant in amateur radio. That is merely a
sign of his fetish.

aumsining no earlier involvement in the Amateur Radio he became
involed at that time

It is a nice guess, but wrong.

therefore your statement that Len is not involved in Ham radio is a
lie

No, Colonel, it could be an error (but it isn't), but it is certainly no
lie. You got none right but thanks for playing.

Dave K8MN

wrote:
On 19 Jan 2006 12:29:11 -0800, wrote:

logic is not the long suit of Dave or dudly for that matter

You've heard of logic, have you?

Your mindset of "closed community" is not only strange
but sociopathic and bigoted. It is imaginative of some
ritualistic group of mystics practicing arcane arts. :-)

do be careful with those mystic as one of them I almost take exception
there is time and place ofor mytism (just not in Ham Radio)

From Google Web Definitions:

Definitions of mystic on the Web:

"* mysterious: having an import not apparent to the senses nor
obvious to the intelligence; beyond ordinary understanding; 'mysterious
symbols'; 'the mystical style of Blake'; 'occult lore'; 'the secret
learning of the ancients' "

Well you must have an import not apparent to the senses of the average
person.

"* relating to or resembling mysticism; 'mystical intuition';
'mystical theories about the securities market' "

You don't seem to have any intuition, mystical or otherwise.

"* someone who believes in the existence of realities beyond human
comprehension"

....or at least beyond his own comprehension.

Dave K8MN

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:11:06 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Jan 19 2006 7:43 am

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Jan 18, 8:26 pm
wrote:


I didn't write of "amateurism", Len. I wrote of amateur radio.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

You wrote of AMATEUR radio. That is AMATEURISM.

I wrote of amateur RADIO, not "amateurism".

I guessyou don't know english that well

I am dyslexic but I know basic word formation what excuse are you
wanting to use

AMATEUR radio is NOT professional radio.

No kidding? Who on earth ever said that it was?

Amateur radio is most assuredly a closed community in that only those
who have passed licensing exams may participate.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, by Heilian Rules: NO ONE can "become
interested" in amateur radio UNLESS they ALREADY have
an amateur radio license!

I didn't say that at all.
yes you did

I will be kind and assume that you did not mean to say but you did
If you've been interested for decades in
amateur radio (and you've been telling us that for almost a decade)
so he has

, you
aren't really interested in amateur radio.
BUUUZZZ

wrong answer

he is obviously interested in the ARs he spends enough time on it

he is just not showing the interest in a (or is it the) manner you
aprove of
If you had been, you'd have
acted upon your interest.

now you just plain lied

he has certainly acted on that interest his primary foucus seems to be
on the rules of the ARS and he has certainly acted on that Stev whines
long and often about as does jim I don't recall your whinging about
Len acting on that interest. you itseems just chose to lie and say ihe
doesn't

Ergo, those going for their
first amateur radio license exam are "not interested!"

You aren't going for your first amateur radio license exam.
he might after the R&O but he was speaking generaly so that doesn't
matter
You aren't
doing doodly-squat. Six years ago, you were going for your "Extra right
out of the box"

. For six years, you've done nothing.

another lies he has particapted in his intest in the ARS w.r.t. it
place in RF usage and rules

just becuase that isn't your interest does not ean that Len's interest
does not exist

I don't think much of the pastime of chasing DX but I am not rude
enough tosay the interest doesn't exist and should beregulated against

Very ILL-logic, David. ["chicken and egg paradox"]

Your chicken stayed on the same side of the road, all the while
expressing "interest" in roads.
the only possible answer to that has to be "bock-bock", or
"Cockadoodle do"

Your mindset of "closed community" is not only strange
but sociopathic and bigoted. It is imaginative of some
ritualistic group of mystics practicing arcane arts. :-)

What I wrote is fact.
no it is is not fact

you are lying nothing new for you
If you have no license, you may not participate.

indeed he can and does

but he can indeed particpate even in on air activioties without a
license

you do need to brush up on the rules it seems


You have not done so and you may not participate.

"I may not participate?"

I think you've got it.

we got it you lied agin

Who is to "stop" my interest
in anything?

Let's take amateur radio as an example.

So far, the only person stopping
you is you.

no he isn't

you and steve and jim try to stop but you fail badly

cutin some ranting

Some two-bit control-freak waving his
federal amateur radio license saying "do I as I command
you?" :-)

What've I commanded you to do, Len? :-) :-)

to stop posting you deny basic facts


Your claim of decades of interest in amateur radio is itself nearly a
decade old.

Much, much OLDER, David? Can't you get ANYTHING right?

I'm going by what you've told us. Perhaps you supplied erroneous
information.

I've had an interest in radio in general since the
late 1940s. [can't you remember what your word-enemies
have written in here?]

Not "radio", Len. "Amateur radio".

so

RADIO (in general) is fascinating stuff to me. So much
so that I made radio-electronics my career choice.

Not "radio, Len. "Amateur radio". Nobody makes amateur radio a career
choice.

W1RFI? Gordo come pretty close W5YI prehaps as well

You exhort that "I have no interest," therefore "I cannot
participate." :-)

You're confused.
you are condused indeed Dave
We're discussing "amateur radio". You've expressed a
decades-long interest. You've told us that for nearly a decade. You've
never acted.

he seems to have acted on those facets that interest him, if that
satifies him who are you to judge him

All because of NOT being granted an amateur radio license.

Granted? You've never even made a move toward obtaining the license.
Six years ago, you stated that you were obtaining an "Extra right out of
the box". The box is sealed.

You still hold no amateur radio license of any class.

Absolutely correct.

Yeah, I knew that.

as did we all

jim was flaming some more you felt like helping out

In March I will have held a
COMMERCIAL RADIO LICENSE (First Class Radiotelephone)
for 50 years!

I don't care if you hold it for another fifty years. That doesn't make
you a licensed radio amateur.

he never claimed it did

you lied by impling he has made such a claim


I don't know a single soul who imagines himself a god of radio.

"Gods of radio" (disguising themselves as mighty macho
morsemen AMATEURS) seem to be soul-less. [hear them
roar!] :-)

Amateurs! That's right, Len. Radio amateurs are AMATEURS. They enjoy
radio for the love of it.
do you realy to judge by your posts hear I would not come to take
conclsion
Many of them have had careers in PROFESSIONAL
radio as well. They manage to do both and to tell the difference
between them.

and some of them even can draw the distintions corectly unlike you
dave

I know that you've, at various times, imagined me to be a god of radio.

One can only go by the words you've written, mighty macho
morseman amateur.

That's right. I've never claimed to be a god of radio.

you have had enough good sense not to type that claim, OTOH your
freind has been less modest, which takes some real work

Takes NO imagination to read that.

To read what, Len?

that you think you think higher of yourself as a ham that you think
your opinion carry the fvery nearl the force of law

you showed that a few days ago when you insisted that you had to
demand and receive an answer from me that I did not feellike giving
you

that you areenpowered to decide when the rules may be broken

that you are.. well never mind furth examples you are not realy
reading this anyway

You
have "laid down rules" that all others must obey, lest they
get the wrath of a self-imagined "god of radio" in here. :-)

I don't lay down rules in amateur radio, Len.
you have claiemed such power
The FCC does that.
Besides, you aren't in amateur radio.

I've already told you that I'm not a god of radio and that I don't know
anyone else who believes himself to be a god of radio. Is your
attention span that short?

no but you do think are one it seems gues you were reading


Well, one thing is certain. You're no radio amateur.

Not a LICENSED radio amateur.

That's the only kind of radio amateur I know of, Len.
your knowledge islimited or I guess you don't alow that that Part 15
lowefer are amateurs (i guess I shouldturn log and pay requests
somewhere

Any Jack Dandy
who isn't a licensed radio amateur but claims to be a radio amateur is
simply a POSEUR!

I've been a hobbyist in radio-electronics since the late 1940s.

Great. That makes you a radio/electronics hobbyist.

That's longer than I've been a PROFESSIONAL in radio-
electronics.

I'm sure that causes your heart to swell with pride.

Since HOBBY interests hardly ever return anything
on monetary investments, HOBBY activities are classified as
"amateur."

Fine, Len. You're an amateur radio/electronics hobbyist.

Radio-electronics is fascinating stuff to me, very enjoyable.


Great. Enjoy it.

then shut and let him

I do like to discuss and trade ideas on the subject.

I'm sure there are a number of newsgroups set up just for guys like you.

what newgruop for discusing ARS policy for no hams
I think it'd be nice if you had a place to meet with like-minded
individuals. It might even ease your frustration over years you've
wasted in r.r.a.p.

if lens purposes are fulfill he has not wated his time



I just
don't enjoy being given orders by self-imposed gods of radio
who imagine themselves to be in-charge over moral and ethical
standards in hobby activities.

Well, as I've told you, I've never claimed to be a god of radio and I
don't personally know any radio amateurs who consider themselves to be
gods of radio, but I can see how you'd feel uncomfortable and maybe
even a little intimidated in the company of those who have spent decades
practicing a craft.

yoiu don't know yourself

I call that a serious problem needing professional help

but you and steve both need such badly

Don't attempt at giving orders here, Leonard.

Why? Do I impinge on your imagined "bossmanship" in here?

Because you hold no authority to do so.

he has as much right as you do and you do regularly

:-)

:-) :-)

One does NOT have to be "involved" through federal licensing
to discuss either radio, licensing, or license testing for
amateur radio.

You have discussed (but mostly pontificated) here for many years.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you contradict yourself.
dae only you and steve (and jim refuse to think

people and interest change over the year

only you and jim and stev realy object to that
Remember, at the
beginning of your "reply" you stated "I have no interest"
in amateur radio...because of not getting an AMATEUR radio
license. :-)

Actually, (tsk, tsk, tsk) you're the one who is contradicting himself.
I acknowledged that you've claimed a decades-long interest in amateur
radio but that you've not acted upon that interest. You tend to play
the guy who is just getting ready to enter amateur radio. You've been
getting ready for decades and decades.


The FCC does NOT require any staffer or commissioner to
have been granted any amateur radio license in order to
MAKE amateur radio regulations OR regulated its use.

That'll be relevant when you are appointed to or hired by the Commission.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

Did you find something incorrect in my statement?
yes I did

you did not ask what BTW

What I wrote is RELEVANT NOW.

It might be relevant now, but you aren't--to the FCC or to amateur radio.

another lie he certainly is relavant

he is a concerned citizen be he ham or not

you rfuse to accept that people have rights even when you wish they
did not

Search all through Title 47
C.F.R. as you wish but NO commissioner or staff of the FCC
is required to hold, be granted ANY FCC radio license in
order to regulate and enforce ALL of United States civil
radio.

That'll be relevant to you when and if you are ever hired by or
appointed to the Commission.

it is relavant now as an example of folks involed in the ARS that are
not hams

you must be suffering from narrow band OOKed rf induced mental
problems it seems


Who has forbidden you to speak?

David Heil.

Nope. Not once; not ever. You have, you might remember, told me to
shut up or to go away. Isn't it interesting that you have done
something of which you accuse others?

I don't recal if you have or have told len to shut up you told me to
"shut up" that is you have told I may not speak as I choose, and you
have told Todd to

I will assuem you have told len to shut up unless somehow you can
prove your assertin that you have not

in this post you clearly seek to forbid Len form speaking on the ARS
and clami he may not address the FCC on ars matters


Heil claims only the already-licensed "are interested" in
amateur radio; i.e., they are "participants." All others
must then have no interest.

You certainly screw things up, Len. That isn't what I've said at all.

It is exaclty what you said
The already licensed are participants. I've acknowledged your claimed
interest and I've pointed out that you have yet to act upon it. YOu are
not a participant in amateur radio.

yes he is

that you fail to accept reality is not len's problem

That does not bode well for newcomers to amateur radio, does
it?

Newcomers? Those just licensed?
are you truely that stupid?


They're radio amateurs, Len. You aren't.

Normal human life expectancy will soon whittle down the
ranks of the already-licensed radio amateurs in the USA
since those without amateur radio licenses are "not interested"
in radio. :-)

Others enter amateur radio. If you entered, you'd be one of them. You
haven't done so. Of of these days, you might achieve neophyte status.
I'm not banking on it.

When you speak, you speak as one with limited knowledge of the topic.

"As if." :-)

*Just* as if.

Amateur radio and its activities are NO SECRET.

No, they aren't. That makes it even more peculiar that a guy with those
decades of interest in amateur radio couldn't have taken the logical
step of acting upon that interest.

he has acted on that interest

you just don't aporve of how he has done so

the answer for that is to tell tough ****

There is NO
secret cabal of radio amateurs who know all there is to know
about radio...thus passing on those secrets to other, already-
licensed radio amateurs who are "interested" and
"participants." :-)

How do you know there is no such secret cabal?
by not being delusional

If it existed, do you
suppose that all would run around blabbing it to you? :-)


Thanks for the advice. I'll do that about the time you stop your
pontificating and condescension. In other words, I won't have to worry
about it in this lifetime.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. David desires to still be in CONTROL over
what everyone thinks, does, desires! His "lifetime task!" :-)

Actually, you (the non-radio amateur) seemed to be telling me what to
do.
he can tell you butt out of his affairs (you obviously don't have to
comply
You aren't in control of my actions on or off the air, Len.
I hve never seen him claim he was
I'll
do as I please.
obviously
You may do as you can.

and yet you object even to that

David is bound and determined to be IN CONTROL of everyone
(whether they like it or not)!

I'm bound and determined to show you up as the clay-footed pretender
that you are.

lotsa luck you are going to need it

I've been VERY much "involved" with radio for just about
53 years now. Radio. Communications radio.

We all know about that. It isn't amateur radio.

YOU know NOTHING about that.

There are reams of your pontificating posts, telling us all about it.

yes but they were lost on you

You aren't a "participant" in
my life (thanks be to God).

I appreciate the advice and I just thanked Him.

it wasn't advice

youso lied again

You are NOT a god of radio who
can tell others what to like, dislike, desire, hate, or be
involved in...but you sincerely TRY to do that...

I thought I'd already pointed out the fact that I've never claimed to be
a god of radio, Len. You do have trouble with your memory.

you oh never mind

You don't have to like amateur radio.
mighty generous of you
You don't have to dislike amateur
radio.
mighty generous of you
You don't have to desire amateur radio.
mighty generous of you
You don't have to hate
amateur radio.
mighty generous of you
You certainly don't have to be involved in amateur
radio. Happy now?

going out on limb and speaking for len
nope becuase the one thing you don't seem to ant to alow " You
certainly don't have to NOT be involved in amateur radio if you want"

that point is one of the basic bones of contention

you and steve and jim will not alow to enjoy a basic prevledge in
peace, thefree exercise of his contitintutional rights without
interfeence


I didn't write "radio". I wrote "amateur radio".

Are we to care "what you wrote?"

Only if you are interested in accuracy.
\
why should anyone e more accurtate than you seem to feel you need to
be?

I thought we were to OBEY
what you wrote.

You thought "amateur radio" was a command?

You're on the outside and you've never been on the inside.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

I AM on the inside right now, writing this. Too cool to be
outside this southern California morning. :-)

You aren't here in the cozy lodge hall, Len.
progress you come close to admitting to yourself and the rest of us
your true view

why not come the rest of the way?

and on a personal note the lodge is not that crozy still rife with
classismand bigotry
You're doomed to spend
your days on the outside looking in.
not at all doomed

good greif show sense of proportion



At the
professional level, not in some "clubhouse" idea of some
backyard amateurs sitting around thinking they were God's
Gift to the radio world because they have been granted a
federal license to be "hams."

There's the condescension.

I don't "condescend" anything.

You just did.

nope you are you used the lodge hall stametn

short memerory I guess

All I do is state what so many
licensed radio amateurs DO, act like, behave.

You don't even know "many" licensed radio amateurs.
you know this how?
Hams aren't about
to kow-tow to the likes of you.

he never claimed they had to you

that is more along your line

Some of those
are simply assholes who think their feces emits no odor.
David, you act like one of those.

Maybe you can find a hobby more to your liking--one in which the
long-time participants will hang on your every word.

he has that hear someone is hanging on his every word in RRAP No post
of len ever goes unanswered

you just lied again

An AMATEUR radio license grant is simply a permission to operate
under specific federal rules of law.

Precisely.

No more.

...and not a bit less.

Those who think
it is "more" than that have an imagination at odds with reality.

I wonder who those guys are.

you for one

Having been granted a federal AMATEUR radio license is NOT some
grant to be of better moral or ethical status than anyone else.

Moral or ethical status?
yes
What are you prattling on about?

you have not been readong the ng for years then

Try to get over that imagined power of yours.

You seem to have taken a left turn somewhere.

Radio amateurs are granted a federal license to be hams.

Can't you get ANYTHING right?

The Food and Drug Administration and the Agriculture Department
of the United States determines what is "ham" (and other pork
products)...and regulate its quality.

How about the part you snipped? You know, the part where you yourself
used the word hams. I guess you were talking about pork product.

Only LICENSED radio amateurs are granted permission to operate
on CERTAIN frequencies with CERTAIN modes according to federal
law.

Thanks for your masterful statement of the obvious. So if a guy didn't
pass the exam granting him an amateur radio license, he wouldn't have
permission to operate on those CERTAIN frequencies with CERTAIN modes
according to federal law. Do you have such a license?

You haven't got one.

I'm not involved with food products and try to avoid contact
with swine. However, sometimes contact with swine is just
unavoidable. :-)

Like, when your gnawing on a pork chop?

I got my first radio license (from the FCC, testing at their
Chicago field office) a half century ago. It was a
COMMERCIAL radio operator license (i.e., professional).

That's irrelevant to the discussion then, isn't it?

Please explain why an AMATEUR radio license grant is the ONLY
thing necessary to hold a superior moral, ethical, or
academic viewpoint over others involved in radio. Hmmm?

Maybe you thought you were in a professional radio ethics discussion, Len.
nope


Talk with them 'til you're blue in the face.

Sorry, there's no Scotch in my blood and I'm not eager to
emulate William Wallace. Wallace was drawn and quartered
some while ago for defying the Crown.

Maybe he was just windy.

nope

Are you attempting to emulate the Crown in trying to draw
and quarter all of your word-enemies in here? Certainly
appears that way. :-)

I don't think of you as a "word-enemy" or "message knuckle", Len. I
prefer to think of you as a horse's patoot.


With the bestest of regards and a hearty "good luck on this,
now,"

I think I've already had pretty good luck on it. Thanks.

hmm thinking that is lie in truth but I am sure you believe that you
think

Dave K8MN

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On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:15:32 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:24:23 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 04:26:59 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:

Poseurs DO have that problem..."tripping the light fantastic"
all the time.
You have a point, Leonard. One example would be your involvement in
amateur radio.
how is that?

How is it? Leonard H. Anderson is not now, nor has he ever been a
participant in amateur radio.

another lie

That's one incorrect.
it is correct you just don't like it
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wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 06:11:06 GMT, Dave Heil
wrote:

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Jan 19 2006 7:43 am

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Jan 18, 8:26 pm
wrote:

I didn't write of "amateurism", Len. I wrote of amateur radio.
Can't you get ANYTHING right?

You wrote of AMATEUR radio. That is AMATEURISM.
I wrote of amateur RADIO, not "amateurism".

I guessyou don't know english that well

Forgive me, Colonel, but you're probably the last person on earth from
whom I'd accept criticism of my use of language.

I am dyslexic but I know basic word formation what excuse are you
wanting to use

No, Mark, you don't even know basic word formation, sentence formation,
paragraph formation or punctuation.

Dave K8MN