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#892
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Service To The Country
wrote:
wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the country? Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES. You're just plain wrong about that, Len. I disagree with Len on this point. Amateur Radio can be a service to the country. I say Amateur Radio does perform service to the country. Not just "can", but "does". Every amateur transmission is a service to the country? Of course not. Even if all Amateur Radio does is provide a back-up communications system, that's a service. A back-up provides exactly the same kind of service as the service that is being backed up. Not necessarily. A backup provides a service that can replace the service that is being backed up, but may not be exactly the same. For example, when the electrical utility service fails, many people will depend on candles, lanterns and flashlights for lighting. Those things aren't exactly the same as what is backed up but they do the job. Of course a whole-house backup generator is preferable and will deliver backup electricity that is almost the same as the utility. For an Amateur Radio example, two Red Cross facilities may usually communicate supply lists by email. If their email fails, Amateur Radio could step in with WinLink and provide a very similar service. But if WinLink is not available, the lists could be sent by radio amateurs using PSK31, voice or, yes, even Morse Code. All depends on what's available at the time. Getting a list that was sent by voice and is hand-written might not be exactly the same as getting it by email, but it will do until the email is working again. Does amateur radio provide that? Sometimes (WinLink vs. email) but not usually. But a backup that is exactly the same as the backed-up service is not essential. In fact, if the backup is exactly the same, what you have is redundancy. United States amateur radio could disappear at midnight and the regular and emergency communications of the USA would keep on functioning. Police would respond to radio calls, fire engines would roll, ambulances would be dispatched, Local governments would continue without pause, already having lots and lots of radio equipment and operators. Air traffic would continue, maritime traffic would continue, trains would still be training, highways would continue to function (and be repaired/renovated) as needed, all without ham radio. Cellular telephony would continue (1 in 3 Americans having one), the Internet would continue, landline telephony would continue. Mass Media (Broadcasting) would continue unabated. The Forest Service would continue spotting fires, reporting any via their own radios. River and Inland Waterways would still have their VHF FM voice communications. GPSS would continue functioning. NOAA would still continue with weather information. Emergencies at sea would still be handled by GMDSS. Emergencies in the air would still be handled by VHF (over land) and HF voice (over ocean). Emergencies on land would be handled by a variety of Public Safety Radio Service facilities, all tied together in large networks that operate nicely. That's all true. But it does not mean that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the country. The problem is the amateurs that ramp up the actual service to the country into a superman complex. *Some* amateurs certainly overstate things about amateur radio. Thus my posting last month quoting an ARRL VP. I missed that one. Did he overstate? However, to say that Amateur Radio performs no service to the country is incorrect. Agreed. All in the preceding paragraph are INDEPENDENT of amateur radio, Jimmy. They ARE a definite SERVICE to the USA and the people within it. Public safety 24/7. Yet there are times when those communications services are inadequate for the situation, and Amateur Radio meets the need. That's when Amateur Radio performs a service to the country. It can be as simple as using Amateur Radio communication to report a broken-down vehicle in a spot where cell phones don't work. No, you can't include this. I was laughed at when I suggested that cellular telephones handle minor emergencies on a day in and day out basis. When was that? Why would you care? You ignore Robesin's all caps, accusatory thread jacking when it happens. I don't read much of rrap. They're simply too much volume and too little time. I stopped reading rrap completely for several months because of all the noise, and reverted to just posting the ARS license numbers for a while. Which reminds me - time for the next post in that thread. Cell phones are certainly useful for "minor emergencies". I've made a few 911 calls from mine. Where cell phones have a problem is when too many people in the same area try to use them simultaneously, exceeding the system capacity. Yet some calls still are still getting through. Some calls are performing emergency comms. No? Yes! The problem is that cell phone communications may not be available when most needed. Massive cell phone system failure can occur when power fails for an extended time and the backup power runs out. So if these emergencies aren't really emergencies, then when a no-coder with a VHF radio steps in where the cell network doesn't cover, the "emergency" still isn't an emergency. Another example was when the space shuttle disintegrated on reentry a few years ago. There was an extensive search effort to find pieces of the wreckage - which were spread over a wide area. What was the emergency? Public service isn't just about emergencies. Fair enough. Emergency communications is just one part of how Amateur Radio provides service to the country. It can be. When it happens. The crew were beyond saving. The property was beyond saving. Finding as much wreckage as possible could help prevent another shuttle disaster. How many years were the shuttles grounded? Lots of time to collect the wreckage. But the longer the wreckage was out in the weather, the less information could be had from it, and the harder it would be to find. Plus the sooner any information could be gathered, the sooner it could be acted upon. Some of the communications for the search efforts were conducted by Amateur Radio, because other facilities were unavailable or did not meet the needs of the searchers. So? So providing communications to the searchers was a service to the country - even though it wasn't an emergency. Fair enough. That's service to the country. Not by the definition of saving life or property? Service is about more than emergencies. The radio services listed by Len include some which are not primarily about emergencies. Here's a first-person account of a radio amateur who helped with the Columbia wreckage search: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...9?dmode=source There are many more examples, from hurricane Katrina to providing communications for a parade or similar event. OK, you're finally getting to an emergency. Public service isn't just about emergencies. Not all communications surrounding Katrina were emcomms. Of course. Your claim that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the country is simply not true, Len. It's an error on *your* part - I didn't make it up. Just don't overinflate our actual involvement. Of course. Read the report on Hurricane Katrina that details what worked and what didn't. Amateur Radio provided an important service to the country - according to the authors of the report. Fair enough. "Service to the country" is one reason for the continued existence of the Amateur Radio Service. --- Now a question: - Does the fact that Amateur Radio "provides service to the country" mean that the ARS is more than "just a hobby"? |
#893
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trolling right along
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#894
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Service To The Country
From: on Sat, Sep 16 2006 4:03 am
wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the country? Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES. You're just plain wrong about that, Len. I disagree with Len on this point. Amateur Radio can be a service to the country. I say Amateur Radio does perform service to the country. Not just "can", but "does". Every amateur transmission is a service to the country? Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh.... Seems like I shook the nitroglycerine bottle that is the mighty macho morseman's ego with that entrapment. :-) KABLOOIE!!! --- Poor Jimmy, all flustered, thought he'd "gotten to me." Poor baby, he doesn't check the Federal Register often enough. On 7 July 2006 the Federal Register made available FR Doc 06-6013 [ET Docket 06-119; FCC 06-831 on the FCC website]. That was a 52 page report by the 27 member panel (1 chair, 26 members), written single-spaced, narrow margins, members all identified by their affiliations on pp 51-52. That was several weeks ago. In FR Doc 06-6013 there is ONE short paragraph about "amateur radio involvement" on page 29 (upper half of page). There is a single statement on page 45 about "waiver of regulations" for amateur radio AND other communications services. That's it. Had FR Doc 06-6013 been formatted in conventional manuscript style (double-spaced, wide margins) it would have been a bit larger than 150 pages in length. :-) Mr. professional-in-some-kind-of-electronics thinks "I should" read that report. :-) I already did, weeks ago, when it was available to the public. What professional-in-some-kind-of-electronics Jimmy FAILED to mention is thousands and thousands of pages of OTHER text in both popular press and professional trade magazines on the tremendous task of getting New Orleans somewhat functional after a major disaster where the state, city of New Orleans was INADEQUATELY PREPARED AT ALL LEVELS (including amateurs) to provide ANY adequate service for its citizens. The surviving services did as best they could with work-arounds, hampered by the city of New Orleans being built below sea level with INADEQUATE protection against dike breaching (which did happen, causing major, major flooding). Even if all Amateur Radio does is provide a back-up communications system, that's a service. A back-up provides exactly the same kind of service as the service that is being backed up. Does amateur radio provide that? Seldom. By law it CANNOT provide the SAME service as broadcasting, multiplexed-circuit communications as in the telephone infrastructure, and NOT in the high speed of data transfer NOW COMMON to MOST communications services on the OUTSIDE of amateur radio. Yes, amateur radio does provide "health and welfare" message relay and some 'phone patches' to the public...provided those amateur radio services are ABLE TO SURVIVE a major environmental disaster. The ARRL failed to "report" on all the amateur radio facilities that did NOT SURVIVE Katrina (wouldn't be good for their wish-fulfillment of members to report that). Yes, amateur radio DID provide SOME communications AFTER Katrina had hit. "Health and welfare" messages and some scattered 'phone patching on the OUTSKIRTS of New Orleans. NONE of that amateur radio communications effort happened DURING the height of a REAL emergency situation and the start of the flooding immediately afterwards. [refer to the stock video shots such as dozens of bright yellow school busses sitting in a flooded bus park, empty, up to their hubcaps in water...busses that could have been driven by most drivers to help evacuate flood victims, but were NOT, just ignored by almost everyone there] "Health and welfare" messaging is emotional sustenance to family and friends of disaster victims. But, let's face it, it is NOT ESSENTIAL to saving lives of the victims, does NOT help repair damange, does NOT evacuate any victims, does NOT do any lasting service to victims other than to provide copy for ARRL news pages. Did Mr. Professional-in-some-kind-of-electronics provide HIS personal "service to the country" during or after Katrina? He never said boo about it. He HAS jabbered about his "service in 'other' ways" (to the nation) but has NEVER explained those "other ways" in any sort of detail. Hurricane Katrina was a severe disaster, unprecedented in recent times (including time hurricanes had routinely hit Florida). The 'preparations for emergencies' in the New Orleans area were later revealed to be miniscule (if not abyssmal and poorly planned. That apparently INCLUDED amateur radio 'preparations;' the ARRL is strangely silent on that aspect. Normally, the REAL emergency services and radio services OTHER than amateur radio are available 24/7 all over the nation. Here is what I wrote previously on those: United States amateur radio could disappear at midnight and the regular and emergency communications of the USA would keep on functioning. Police would respond to radio calls, fire engines would roll, ambulances would be dispatched, Local governments would continue without pause, already having lots and lots of radio equipment and operators. Air traffic would continue, maritime traffic would continue, trains would still be training, highways would continue to function (and be repaired/renovated) as needed, all without ham radio. Cellular telephony would continue (1 in 3 Americans having one), the Internet would continue, landline telephony would continue. Mass Media (Broadcasting) would continue unabated. The Forest Service would continue spotting fires, reporting any via their own radios. River and Inland Waterways would still have their VHF FM voice communications. GPSS would continue functioning. NOAA would still continue with weather information. Emergencies at sea would still be handled by GMDSS. Emergencies in the air would still be handled by VHF (over land) and HF voice (over ocean). Emergencies on land would be handled by a variety of Public Safety Radio Service facilities, all tied together in large networks that operate nicely. My wife and I were in the upper midwest when Katrina hit the Gulf states' coastline last year. Outside of Katrina being the major focus of the news, NOTHING affected our stay there. The remaining weather disturbance reaching the upper midwest DID cause us to change plans on the return trip. My wife handled all the reservation changes via cell phone from inside the car while I was driving through Iowa and on into Nevada. Excellent service on that. No roadway or motel or restaurant services were affected. On the 2000 mile return trip we saw only two incidents of accidents of others, both attended to by existing infrastructure public safety and towing services. That's all true. But it does not mean that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the country. The problem is the amateurs that ramp up the actual service to the country into a superman complex. *Some* amateurs certainly overstate things about amateur radio. Thus my posting last month quoting an ARRL VP. Brian, that is anathema to the morseodist supermen of the ARRL persuasion. A "no-no" in common speech. The ARRL is always right, can never be wrong... However, to say that Amateur Radio performs no service to the country is incorrect. Agreed. In ANY emergency, ANY communications service facility is useful. One uses whatever is there at the time. The FCC recognizes this in Part 1 of Title 47 C.F.R. in regards to ALL radio services' operations in the event of a REAL emergency. Yet there are times when those communications services are inadequate for the situation, and Amateur Radio meets the need. That's when Amateur Radio performs a service to the country. [that is so RARE that it is almost laughable] It can be as simple as using Amateur Radio communication to report a broken-down vehicle in a spot where cell phones don't work. [that has become a rarity...in the "Big Dig" tunnel complex of Boston there are internal RF repeaters for that...but any radio is useless there when the roof pieces fall...] No, you can't include this. I was laughed at when I suggested that cellular telephones handle minor emergencies on a day in and day out basis. When was that? Why would you care? You ignore Robesin's all caps, accusatory thread jacking when it happens. Jimmy has tunnel vision. He would be at home in Boston in the tunnel complex...if it weren't so "violent." :-) Oops! Jimmy allow no violence! I forgot. He would interpret falling concrete roof slabs as "MY (violent) ERROR!" :-) Cell phones are certainly useful for "minor emergencies". I've made a few 911 calls from mine. Where cell phones have a problem is when too many people in the same area try to use them simultaneously, exceeding the system capacity. Yet some calls still are still getting through. Some calls are performing emergency comms. No? Not in Jimmyworld. In emergencies ALL infrastructure comms FAIL and ONLY amateur radio can save the day. Sigh... Amateurs and amateur radio equipment SURVIVES the harshest environments and is ready-and-able to SERVE 24/7 ! [gag, guffaw! :-) ] Another example was when the space shuttle disintegrated on reentry a few years ago. There was an extensive search effort to find pieces of the wreckage - which were spread over a wide area. What was the emergency? Public service isn't just about emergencies. Fair enough. Emergency communications is just one part of how Amateur Radio provides service to the country. It can be. The "service" aspect is largely confined to refills of the pipe that some smoke while dreaming in front of their radios. Apparently some feel guilt about enjoying a hobby - or just inadequate - and try to pretend they are much more important than just hobbyists. Some pretend to be professionals in an amateur activity. The crew were beyond saving. The property was beyond saving. Finding as much wreckage as possible could help prevent another shuttle disaster. How many years were the shuttles grounded? Lots of time to collect the wreckage. Mr. Professional-in-SOME-kind-of-work seems to have overlooked both the NASA statements immediately after the fact, the many, many pages of news and information about the shuttle disaster, the probable cause of disintegration (number one suspect on day one of the tragedy...by the pros involved). The "footprint" of the breakup was spread over three states in a known path. The bodies of all astronauts on board were recovered as well as over 80 percent of the spaceframe. Pictures of the wreckage laid out in order in a hangar in Florida were printed in Aviation Week & Space Technology. The vast majority of the wreckage pieces were found by ordinary citizens, ones who have not been granted amateur radio licenses. Some of the communications for the search efforts were conducted by Amateur Radio, because other facilities were unavailable or did not meet the needs of the searchers. So? So providing communications to the searchers was a service to the country - even though it wasn't an emergency. Fair enough. The ACTUAL communications services were done by existing infra- structure agencies...everyone from local PDs to the Forest Service that could be spared from regular work. CITIZENS, most of whom had NO radio licenses, helped the wreckage recovery efforts on their own, no ham license required. That's service to the country. Not by the definition of saving life or property? Service is about more than emergencies. The radio services listed by Len include some which are not primarily about emergencies. [Torquemada Jim did NOT identify which ones...he only wanted to light a burning at the stake...:-) ] Here's a first-person account of a radio amateur who helped with the Columbia wreckage search: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r.../msg/5be7f564c... [...a "vital service to the nation"...disregarding those who've actually worked on STS components such as the SSME] [heh heh heh heh heh heh...] There are many more examples, from hurricane Katrina to providing communications for a parade or similar event. OK, you're finally getting to an emergency. Public service isn't just about emergencies. Not all communications surrounding Katrina were emcomms. Tsk, the traditional New Year's Rose Parade uses non-amateur comms to keep it organized and going, how about that? :-) Your claim that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the country is simply not true, Len. It's an error on *your* part - I didn't make it up. Just don't overinflate our actual involvement. Of course. Here is what was originally written: Torquemada Jim: "Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the country?" My reply: "Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES." KABLOOIE! Jimmy HAD to explode in a torrent of "errors." Gotta love it...push just one button and he detonates. :-) [...this is more fun than a barrel of morseodists] Read the report on Hurricane Katrina that details what worked and what didn't. Amateur Radio provided an important service to the country - according to the authors of the report. Fair enough. FIFTY TWO PAGES WORTH, released 7 Jul 06, got it fresh from the GPO website when it was released. Interesting but wordy. Re-skim-reading it, I did NOT see the "importance to the country" in such glowing, endearing, patriotic terms. That's probably due to being just an ordinary citizen, having served my country in the military during a time of war, working as a professional in radio-electronics...not in the "transport industry" or busy, busy with manual telegraphy. :-) US amateur radio is an interesting avocational aspect of the entire radio world. It can be fun to most of the hobbyists. But, a few, like Mr. Professional-in-some-kind-of-whatever, wrap themselves in too much patriotic bunting...they can't see through that or the many flags they wave about them- selves. Pity that, only saplings pretending to be mature trees, unable to see the forest. [watch the outrageous vituperation flow in now... :-) ] Beep, beep, |
#895
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trolling right along
wrote: Dave Heil wrote: wrote: From: on Thurs, Sep 14 2006 3:36 pm wrote: From: on Thurs, Sep 14 2006 4:31 am wrote: From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 9:45 pm wrote: From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 2:46 pm wrote: From: Dave Heil 940 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:26 pm wrote: From: on Sun, Sep 10 2006 7:55 am wrote: From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:53 pm wrote: Oh, dear, the Mighty Macho Morseman is AFRAID?!? Afraid of VIOLINS? Shall we all BOW down to him lest he pop a STRING? He wants to ROSIN his way out? BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, oh, her holiness Mother Superior is on duty! Awwww..."you don't know...." Poor thing isn't aware or informed. [David Horowitz would be horrified] Tsk, I post a cute saying (actually thought up by another amateur extra who did pass a 20 WPM code test) and you come all UNGLUED! Quick, call Eastman for more cyanoacrylic adhesive! Me, "upset?" I pushed your buttons, mighty morseman and you come back in TYPICAL fashion, all prissy-sissy. Makes it very easy to walk all over your posting! Nope. You've lost control after hitting the spike strip of reality on the morse highway. Devout morsemen can either hang together or hang separately. No problem to me. [got enough rope for either] Oh! Oh! Tremble, Jimmy, "more violence!" "more violence!" Poor baby, still FIXATED on 7 years ago! I STOPPED pursuing that suggestion to the FCC (on the last page of my Comment on NPRM 98-143) SEVEN YEARS AGO! Since FCC 99-412 (the Report and Order on Restructuring) nullified all those Comments in regards to the FCC decision and did not pick up on my suggestion, I didn't continue after that. BUT...all the angry pro-code-test morsemen seem to LIKE necro-equine flagellation ('beating a dead horse') and a few beaters (like yourself) are intent on trying to breathe life in to the creature no matter what. We can all guess WHY you are doing it, Jimmy. You are obsessed with trying to prove ME 'doing wrong' and have MANUFACTURED things that haven't existed for a long time. DROP it, Jimmy. I did, long ago. All you are doing is beating off, er beating that very dead horse. Stop with your necrophilia. Your "friends and neighbors" might not come over to "admire your work!" BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Riiiight...but you love to attempt controlling what I write! :-) Mais non, mon petit. I just stated what I did and where at what time. If you think that was 'better than you' then you have an odd insecurity problem. You have a case by Halliburton. :-) Tsk, tsk, then all YOU are is ON THE SIDELINES YELLING at no-code-test advocates. :-) None at all. :-) If you were worth the effort you'd have been Replied to. No problem. Are you my waiter tonight? Good, then you can serve us something palatable instead of long-dead, severly beaten horsemeat. Try to get your act together. And be quick with that horsemeat. Now, it MIGHT happen that aliens from outer space MIGHT invade the earth. "ONLY" morse code skill can possibly thwart these advanced aliens who have sufficient knowledge and intelligence to cross interstellar space? [work on your script some more...it was already done...] Tsk, tsk, tsk...all of Heil's 'foreign service' adventures, salary, expenses, et al, came DIRECTLY out of government. No "subsidy" there. I have NEVER worked for any business, company, corporation that was "subsidized" by the government. NONE. You are confused on the use of the word "subsidy." And the REST of us are kept in the dark. Is this a mystery game you made up? :-) Something to take the place of playing "old maid?" Are you ASHAMED of your job? AFRAID someone will POKE FUN at it? Why? You aren't hesitant about poking fun at whatever job a no-code-test-advocate has...you've done that repeatedly. Save all your homily grits for the next 9/11 anniversary. Don't try to weasel out of what I said. Then start SHOWING that "respect" to some of us you've made fun of...HYPOCRITE. But, you still don't have the GUTS to tell "the rest of us" in this newsgroup what, where of your employment, do you? No, you want to negatively criticize those of us who are proud and enthusiastic about what we do, have done. WE already know, Jimmy...you ain't got the GUTS to do so. Sigh...let me rephrase: You haven't got the COURAGE. "Guts" is too visceral for sissy-prissies. And here you were, rushing home from "work in transportation" to answer without much "civility" and with lots of semantic juggling to attempt defending your previous statements. :-) I don't HEAR you on the radio! :-) You "*are* superior" because you are a morseman. :-) Morsemen are "always right" in your view, aren't they? YOU are always "selling a bill of goods." :-) We see your "hat" but we can't hear any hoofbeats of all that "cattle." :-) Is your Hide Raw? Poor baby...got TWO "thumbs down," did you? No, sweetums, YOU MAKE THEM UP...then say "I" made them. You want what you paid me for professional work in here refunded? Okay, attached to this message is a refund. :-) Call the ACLU, call the Attorney General, call for Philip and call for Morris. Poor baby, wanna act smug and arrogant and superior and hope to get LIKED?!? Only by some masochist, sweetums. :-) You are a morseman and you're okay... :-) You are naturally superior in all aspects. Except your aspect is in a sling. Oh, you expect ALL your "inferiors" to be masochists? Tsk, tsk, the FCC has NO age limit on amateur radio. Now YOU don't like childish behavior? Too bad, the FCC would allow a 2-year-old to hold a ham license. :-) Drop this "show us" ploy, Jimmy Noserve. That's an OLD trick, trying to make the challenged go through all those (if available) archives, cut-and-paste, only to have you rationalize YOU are "right" because you're a morseman, etc. :-) That "show us" response of actually showing where and when you did it is negative ROI. As I said, you, when confronted, will DENY it, rationalize some "reasons" that you are "right" and then ignore it. :-) Besides, OLD POSTS are in the past...they've already been argued over. You are NOT going to "win" any such OLD argument by repetition of the SAME posts from archives! But...you keep on trying and trying and trying. You got very trying a long time ago. Ah! The no-guts rationalization hard at work! :-) So..."someone else" isn't bothered with, but you DO try to bring me down every chance you get! :-) What do you FEAR from me, Jimmy? C'mon, you can level with the group... You don't like your image from the other side of your screen described for others? Tsk...and a Mother Superior at that! Is that an ORDER, Mother? Or just something FROM the Order? ["Give a nun an inch and she thinks she's a ruler!] Now be good and change your Habit. Say goodnight...grazie. Slap, slap, There you have it. Len acts surprised when he is called on his actions. I disagree. Where is the surprise? I think Len expects that you'll attempt to denigrate him as you've previously done. It's so expected that one can use the phrase "take it to the bank"! :-) Poor Dave, still upset about cashews in Guinea-Bisseau and unable to "synchronize his teleprinters." :-) "Hi, I'm Dave, I'll be your SERVER tonight..." :-) |
#896
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Service To The Country
wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the country? Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES. You're just plain wrong about that, Len. I disagree with Len on this point. Amateur Radio can be a service to the country. I say Amateur Radio does perform service to the country. Not just "can", but "does". Every amateur transmission is a service to the country? Of course not. Then not all amateur transmissions are a service to the country. Are all amateurs a service to the country? Even if all Amateur Radio does is provide a back-up communications system, that's a service. A back-up provides exactly the same kind of service as the service that is being backed up. Not necessarily. A backup provides a service that can replace the service that is being backed up, but may not be exactly the same. For example, when the electrical utility service fails, many people will depend on candles, lanterns and flashlights for lighting. Those things aren't exactly the same as what is backed up but they do the job. Of course a whole-house backup generator is preferable and will deliver backup electricity that is almost the same as the utility. For an Amateur Radio example, two Red Cross facilities may usually communicate supply lists by email. If their email fails, Amateur Radio could step in with WinLink and provide a very similar service. But if WinLink is not available, the lists could be sent by radio amateurs using PSK31, voice or, yes, even Morse Code. All depends on what's available at the time. Getting a list that was sent by voice and is hand-written might not be exactly the same as getting it by email, but it will do until the email is working again. Does amateur radio provide that? Sometimes (WinLink vs. email) but not usually. But a backup that is exactly the same as the backed-up service is not essential. In fact, if the backup is exactly the same, what you have is redundancy. At what point does the ICS commander take the amateur radio away from you and starts communicating on his own? United States amateur radio could disappear at midnight and the regular and emergency communications of the USA would keep on functioning. Police would respond to radio calls, fire engines would roll, ambulances would be dispatched, Local governments would continue without pause, already having lots and lots of radio equipment and operators. Air traffic would continue, maritime traffic would continue, trains would still be training, highways would continue to function (and be repaired/renovated) as needed, all without ham radio. Cellular telephony would continue (1 in 3 Americans having one), the Internet would continue, landline telephony would continue. Mass Media (Broadcasting) would continue unabated. The Forest Service would continue spotting fires, reporting any via their own radios. River and Inland Waterways would still have their VHF FM voice communications. GPSS would continue functioning. NOAA would still continue with weather information. Emergencies at sea would still be handled by GMDSS. Emergencies in the air would still be handled by VHF (over land) and HF voice (over ocean). Emergencies on land would be handled by a variety of Public Safety Radio Service facilities, all tied together in large networks that operate nicely. That's all true. But it does not mean that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the country. The problem is the amateurs that ramp up the actual service to the country into a superman complex. *Some* amateurs certainly overstate things about amateur radio. Thus my posting last month quoting an ARRL VP. I missed that one. Did he overstate? She. However, to say that Amateur Radio performs no service to the country is incorrect. Agreed. All in the preceding paragraph are INDEPENDENT of amateur radio, Jimmy. They ARE a definite SERVICE to the USA and the people within it. Public safety 24/7. Yet there are times when those communications services are inadequate for the situation, and Amateur Radio meets the need. That's when Amateur Radio performs a service to the country. It can be as simple as using Amateur Radio communication to report a broken-down vehicle in a spot where cell phones don't work. No, you can't include this. I was laughed at when I suggested that cellular telephones handle minor emergencies on a day in and day out basis. When was that? Why would you care? You ignore Robesin's all caps, accusatory thread jacking when it happens. I don't read much of rrap. They're simply too much volume and too little time. I stopped reading rrap completely for several months because of all the noise, and reverted to just posting the ARS license numbers for a while. Which reminds me - time for the next post in that thread. Cell phones are certainly useful for "minor emergencies". I've made a few 911 calls from mine. Where cell phones have a problem is when too many people in the same area try to use them simultaneously, exceeding the system capacity. Yet some calls still are still getting through. Some calls are performing emergency comms. No? Yes! The problem is that cell phone communications may not be available when most needed. Massive cell phone system failure can occur when power fails for an extended time and the backup power runs out. That can also render many or most amateur stations inop. So if these emergencies aren't really emergencies, then when a no-coder with a VHF radio steps in where the cell network doesn't cover, the "emergency" still isn't an emergency. Another example was when the space shuttle disintegrated on reentry a few years ago. There was an extensive search effort to find pieces of the wreckage - which were spread over a wide area. What was the emergency? Public service isn't just about emergencies. Fair enough. Emergency communications is just one part of how Amateur Radio provides service to the country. It can be. When it happens. The crew were beyond saving. The property was beyond saving. Finding as much wreckage as possible could help prevent another shuttle disaster. How many years were the shuttles grounded? Lots of time to collect the wreckage. But the longer the wreckage was out in the weather, the less information could be had from it, and the harder it would be to find. Plus the sooner any information could be gathered, the sooner it could be acted upon. They could have bought it off of ebay. Some of the communications for the search efforts were conducted by Amateur Radio, because other facilities were unavailable or did not meet the needs of the searchers. So? So providing communications to the searchers was a service to the country - even though it wasn't an emergency. Fair enough. That's service to the country. Not by the definition of saving life or property? Service is about more than emergencies. The radio services listed by Len include some which are not primarily about emergencies. Here's a first-person account of a radio amateur who helped with the Columbia wreckage search: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...9?dmode=source There are many more examples, from hurricane Katrina to providing communications for a parade or similar event. OK, you're finally getting to an emergency. Public service isn't just about emergencies. Not all communications surrounding Katrina were emcomms. Of course. Your claim that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the country is simply not true, Len. It's an error on *your* part - I didn't make it up. Just don't overinflate our actual involvement. Of course. Read the report on Hurricane Katrina that details what worked and what didn't. Amateur Radio provided an important service to the country - according to the authors of the report. Fair enough. "Service to the country" is one reason for the continued existence of the Amateur Radio Service. --- Now a question: - Does the fact that Amateur Radio "provides service to the country" mean that the ARS is more than "just a hobby"? It can be. ;^) |
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trolling right along
Jonathan wrote: 'slow code stalker at large |
#898
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trolling right along
Not Lloyd wrote: slow code stalker at large |
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Service To The Country
US amateur radio is an interesting avocational aspect of the entire radio world. It can be fun to most of the hobbyists. But, a few, like Mr. Professional-in-some-kind-of-whatever, wrap themselves in too much patriotic bunting...they can't see through that or the many flags they wave about them- selves. Pity that, only saplings pretending to be mature trees, unable to see the forest. [watch the outrageous vituperation flow in now... :-) ] Beep, beep, YAWN |
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trolling right along
Poor Dave, still upset about cashews in Guinea-Bisseau and unable to "synchronize his teleprinters." :-) "Hi, I'm Dave, I'll be your SERVER tonight..." :-) More effluent. YAWN. |
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