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  #891   Report Post  
Old September 16th 06, 12:13 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,554
Default trolling right along


Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 14 2006 3:36 pm

wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 14 2006 4:31 am
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 9:45 pm
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 2:46 pm
wrote:
From: Dave Heil 940 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:26 pm
wrote:
From: on Sun, Sep 10 2006 7:55 am
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:53 pm
wrote:


Oh, dear, the Mighty Macho Morseman is AFRAID?!?

Afraid of VIOLINS? Shall we all BOW down to him lest
he pop a STRING? He wants to ROSIN his way out?

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh, oh, her holiness Mother Superior is on duty!



Awwww..."you don't know...." Poor thing isn't aware or
informed. [David Horowitz would be horrified]

Tsk, I post a cute saying (actually thought up by another
amateur extra who did pass a 20 WPM code test) and you
come all UNGLUED! Quick, call Eastman for more
cyanoacrylic adhesive!


Me, "upset?" I pushed your buttons, mighty morseman
and you come back in TYPICAL fashion, all prissy-sissy.

Makes it very easy to walk all over your posting!


Nope. You've lost control after hitting the spike strip
of reality on the morse highway.


Devout morsemen can either hang together or hang separately.
No problem to me. [got enough rope for either]

Oh! Oh! Tremble, Jimmy, "more violence!" "more violence!"



Poor baby, still FIXATED on 7 years ago!

I STOPPED pursuing that suggestion to the FCC (on the
last page of my Comment on NPRM 98-143) SEVEN YEARS AGO!
Since FCC 99-412 (the Report and Order on Restructuring)
nullified all those Comments in regards to the FCC
decision and did not pick up on my suggestion, I didn't
continue after that.

BUT...all the angry pro-code-test morsemen seem to LIKE
necro-equine flagellation ('beating a dead horse') and
a few beaters (like yourself) are intent on trying to
breathe life in to the creature no matter what.

We can all guess WHY you are doing it, Jimmy. You are
obsessed with trying to prove ME 'doing wrong' and have
MANUFACTURED things that haven't existed for a long time.

DROP it, Jimmy. I did, long ago. All you are doing is
beating off, er beating that very dead horse.

Stop with your necrophilia.


Your "friends and neighbors" might not come over to "admire
your work!"

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riiiight...but you love to attempt controlling what I
write! :-)


Mais non, mon petit. I just stated what I did and where
at what time. If you think that was 'better than you'
then you have an odd insecurity problem.


You have a case by Halliburton. :-)


Tsk, tsk, then all YOU are is ON THE SIDELINES YELLING
at no-code-test advocates. :-)


None at all. :-) If you were worth the effort you'd have
been Replied to. No problem.


Are you my waiter tonight? Good, then you can serve us
something palatable instead of long-dead, severly beaten
horsemeat.


Try to get your act together. And be quick with that
horsemeat.



Now, it MIGHT happen that aliens from outer space MIGHT
invade the earth. "ONLY" morse code skill can possibly
thwart these advanced aliens who have sufficient knowledge
and intelligence to cross interstellar space? [work on
your script some more...it was already done...]


Tsk, tsk, tsk...all of Heil's 'foreign service' adventures,
salary, expenses, et al, came DIRECTLY out of government.
No "subsidy" there.

I have NEVER worked for any business, company, corporation
that was "subsidized" by the government. NONE.

You are confused on the use of the word "subsidy."


And the REST of us are kept in the dark. Is this a mystery
game you made up? :-) Something to take the place of
playing "old maid?"

Are you ASHAMED of your job? AFRAID someone will POKE FUN
at it? Why? You aren't hesitant about poking fun at whatever
job a no-code-test-advocate has...you've done that repeatedly.


Save all your homily grits for the next 9/11 anniversary.

Don't try to weasel out of what I said.


Then start SHOWING that "respect" to some of us you've
made fun of...HYPOCRITE.



But, you still don't have the GUTS to tell "the rest of us"
in this newsgroup what, where of your employment, do you?
No, you want to negatively criticize those of us who are
proud and enthusiastic about what we do, have done.


WE already know, Jimmy...you ain't got the GUTS to do so.


Sigh...let me rephrase: You haven't got the COURAGE.

"Guts" is too visceral for sissy-prissies.


And here you were, rushing home from "work in transportation"
to answer without much "civility" and with lots of semantic
juggling to attempt defending your previous statements. :-)

I don't HEAR you on the radio! :-)


You "*are* superior" because you are a morseman. :-)

Morsemen are "always right" in your view, aren't they?


YOU are always "selling a bill of goods." :-)

We see your "hat" but we can't hear any hoofbeats of
all that "cattle." :-)

Is your Hide Raw?


Poor baby...got TWO "thumbs down," did you?


No, sweetums, YOU MAKE THEM UP...then say "I" made them.


You want what you paid me for professional work in here
refunded? Okay, attached to this message is a refund. :-)


Call the ACLU, call the Attorney General, call for
Philip and call for Morris. Poor baby, wanna act
smug and arrogant and superior and hope to get LIKED?!?

Only by some masochist, sweetums. :-)


You are a morseman and you're okay... :-)

You are naturally superior in all aspects. Except
your aspect is in a sling.


Oh, you expect ALL your "inferiors" to be masochists?

Tsk, tsk, the FCC has NO age limit on amateur radio.
Now YOU don't like childish behavior? Too bad, the
FCC would allow a 2-year-old to hold a ham license. :-)


Drop this "show us" ploy, Jimmy Noserve. That's an OLD
trick, trying to make the challenged go through all those
(if available) archives, cut-and-paste, only to have you
rationalize YOU are "right" because you're a morseman, etc.
:-)

That "show us" response of actually showing where and when
you did it is negative ROI. As I said, you, when
confronted, will DENY it, rationalize some "reasons" that
you are "right" and then ignore it. :-)

Besides, OLD POSTS are in the past...they've already been
argued over. You are NOT going to "win" any such OLD
argument by repetition of the SAME posts from archives!
But...you keep on trying and trying and trying. You got
very trying a long time ago.


Ah! The no-guts rationalization hard at work! :-)

So..."someone else" isn't bothered with, but you DO
try to bring me down every chance you get! :-)

What do you FEAR from me, Jimmy? C'mon, you can level
with the group...

You don't like your image from the other side of your
screen described for others? Tsk...and a Mother Superior
at that!


Is that an ORDER, Mother? Or just something FROM the Order?

["Give a nun an inch and she thinks she's a ruler!]

Now be good and change your Habit.

Say goodnight...grazie.

Slap, slap,



There you have it. Len acts surprised when he is called on his actions.


I disagree. Where is the surprise?

I think Len expects that you'll attempt to denigrate him as you've
previously done.


  #892   Report Post  
Old September 16th 06, 02:14 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 877
Default Service To The Country

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:


Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the
country?


Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES.


You're just plain wrong about that, Len.

I disagree with Len on this point. Amateur Radio can be a service to
the country.


I say Amateur Radio does perform service to the country. Not just
"can", but "does".


Every amateur transmission is a service to the country?


Of course not.

Even if all Amateur Radio does is provide a back-up communications
system, that's a service.


A back-up provides exactly the same kind of service as the service that
is being backed up.


Not necessarily. A backup provides a service that can replace the
service that is being backed up, but may not be exactly the same. For
example, when the electrical utility service fails, many people will
depend on candles, lanterns and flashlights for lighting. Those things
aren't exactly the same as what is backed up but they do the job. Of
course a whole-house backup generator is preferable and will deliver
backup electricity that is almost the same as the utility.

For an Amateur Radio example, two Red Cross facilities may usually
communicate supply lists by email. If their email fails, Amateur Radio
could step in with WinLink and provide a very similar service. But if
WinLink is not available, the lists could be sent by radio amateurs
using PSK31, voice or, yes, even Morse Code. All depends on what's
available at the time. Getting a list that was sent by voice and is
hand-written might not be exactly the same as getting it by email, but
it will do until the email is working again.

Does amateur radio provide that?


Sometimes (WinLink vs. email) but not usually. But a backup that is
exactly the same as the backed-up service is not essential. In fact, if
the backup is exactly the same, what you have is redundancy.

United States amateur radio could disappear at midnight and
the regular and emergency communications of the USA would
keep on functioning. Police would respond to radio calls,
fire engines would roll, ambulances would be dispatched,
Local governments would continue without pause, already
having lots and lots of radio equipment and operators.
Air traffic would continue, maritime traffic would continue,
trains would still be training, highways would continue to
function (and be repaired/renovated) as needed, all without
ham radio. Cellular telephony would continue (1 in 3
Americans having one), the Internet would continue, landline
telephony would continue. Mass Media (Broadcasting) would
continue unabated. The Forest Service would continue
spotting fires, reporting any via their own radios. River
and Inland Waterways would still have their VHF FM voice
communications. GPSS would continue functioning. NOAA
would still continue with weather information. Emergencies
at sea would still be handled by GMDSS. Emergencies in the
air would still be handled by VHF (over land) and HF voice
(over ocean). Emergencies on land would be handled by a
variety of Public Safety Radio Service facilities, all tied
together in large networks that operate nicely.

That's all true. But it does not mean that Amateur Radio does not
perform any service to the country.

The problem is the amateurs that ramp up the actual service to the
country into a superman complex.


*Some* amateurs certainly overstate things about amateur radio.


Thus my posting last month quoting an ARRL VP.


I missed that one. Did he overstate?

However, to say that Amateur Radio performs no service to the country
is incorrect.


Agreed.

All in the preceding paragraph are INDEPENDENT of amateur
radio, Jimmy. They ARE a definite SERVICE to the USA and
the people within it. Public safety 24/7.

Yet there are times when those communications services are inadequate
for the situation, and Amateur Radio meets the need. That's when
Amateur Radio performs a service to the country.

It can be as simple as using Amateur Radio communication to report a
broken-down vehicle in a spot where cell phones don't work.

No, you can't include this. I was laughed at when I suggested that
cellular telephones handle minor emergencies on a day in and day out
basis.


When was that?


Why would you care? You ignore Robesin's all caps, accusatory thread
jacking when it happens.


I don't read much of rrap. They're simply too much volume and too
little time. I stopped reading rrap completely for several months
because of all the noise, and reverted to just posting the ARS license
numbers for a while.

Which reminds me - time for the next post in that thread.

Cell phones are certainly useful for "minor emergencies". I've made a
few 911 calls from mine.

Where cell phones have a problem is when too many people in the same
area try to use them simultaneously, exceeding the system capacity.


Yet some calls still are still getting through. Some calls are
performing emergency comms. No?


Yes! The problem is that cell phone communications may not be available
when most needed.

Massive cell phone system failure can occur when power fails for an
extended time and the backup power runs out.

So if these emergencies aren't really emergencies, then when a no-coder
with a VHF radio steps in where the cell network doesn't cover, the
"emergency" still isn't an emergency.

Another example was when the space shuttle disintegrated on reentry a
few years ago. There was an extensive search effort to find pieces of
the wreckage - which were spread over a wide area.

What was the emergency?


Public service isn't just about emergencies.


Fair enough.

Emergency communications
is just one part of how Amateur Radio provides service to the country.


It can be.


When it happens.

The crew were beyond saving. The property was beyond saving.


Finding as much wreckage as possible could help prevent another shuttle
disaster.


How many years were the shuttles grounded? Lots of time to collect the
wreckage.


But the longer the wreckage was out in the weather, the less
information could be had from it, and the harder it would be to find.
Plus the sooner any information could be gathered, the sooner it could
be acted upon.

Some of the communications for the search efforts were conducted by
Amateur Radio, because other facilities were unavailable or did not
meet the needs of the searchers.

So?


So providing communications to the searchers was a service to the
country - even though it wasn't an emergency.


Fair enough.

That's service to the country.

Not by the definition of saving life or property?


Service is about more than emergencies. The radio services listed by
Len include some which are not primarily about emergencies.

Here's a first-person account of a radio amateur who helped with the
Columbia wreckage search:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...9?dmode=source

There are many more examples, from hurricane Katrina to providing
communications for a parade or similar event.

OK, you're finally getting to an emergency.


Public service isn't just about emergencies.


Not all communications surrounding Katrina were emcomms.


Of course.

Your claim that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the
country is simply not true, Len. It's an error on *your* part - I
didn't make it up.

Just don't overinflate our actual involvement.


Of course.

Read the report on Hurricane Katrina that details what worked and what
didn't. Amateur Radio provided an important service to the country -
according to the authors of the report.

Fair enough.


"Service to the country" is one reason for the continued existence of
the Amateur Radio Service.

---

Now a question:

- Does the fact that Amateur Radio "provides service to the country"
mean that the ARS is more than "just a hobby"?

  #894   Report Post  
Old September 16th 06, 08:57 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,027
Default Service To The Country

From: on Sat, Sep 16 2006 4:03 am

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:


Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the
country?


Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES.


You're just plain wrong about that, Len.


I disagree with Len on this point. Amateur Radio can be a service to
the country.


I say Amateur Radio does perform service to the country. Not just
"can", but "does".


Every amateur transmission is a service to the country?


Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh....

Seems like I shook the nitroglycerine bottle that is the mighty
macho morseman's ego with that entrapment. :-) KABLOOIE!!!

---

Poor Jimmy, all flustered, thought he'd "gotten to me." Poor baby,
he doesn't check the Federal Register often enough.

On 7 July 2006 the Federal Register made available FR Doc 06-6013
[ET Docket 06-119; FCC 06-831 on the FCC website]. That was a
52 page report by the 27 member panel (1 chair, 26 members), written
single-spaced, narrow margins, members all identified by their
affiliations on pp 51-52. That was several weeks ago.

In FR Doc 06-6013 there is ONE short paragraph about "amateur
radio involvement" on page 29 (upper half of page). There is a
single statement on page 45 about "waiver of regulations" for
amateur radio AND other communications services. That's it.

Had FR Doc 06-6013 been formatted in conventional manuscript
style (double-spaced, wide margins) it would have been a bit
larger than 150 pages in length. :-)

Mr. professional-in-some-kind-of-electronics thinks "I should"
read that report. :-) I already did, weeks ago, when it was
available to the public.

What professional-in-some-kind-of-electronics Jimmy FAILED to
mention is thousands and thousands of pages of OTHER text in
both popular press and professional trade magazines on the
tremendous task of getting New Orleans somewhat functional
after a major disaster where the state, city of New Orleans
was INADEQUATELY PREPARED AT ALL LEVELS (including amateurs)
to provide ANY adequate service for its citizens. The
surviving services did as best they could with work-arounds,
hampered by the city of New Orleans being built below sea
level with INADEQUATE protection against dike breaching (which
did happen, causing major, major flooding).

Even if all Amateur Radio does is provide a back-up communications
system, that's a service.


A back-up provides exactly the same kind of service as the service that
is being backed up.

Does amateur radio provide that?


Seldom. By law it CANNOT provide the SAME service as
broadcasting, multiplexed-circuit communications as in the
telephone infrastructure, and NOT in the high speed of
data transfer NOW COMMON to MOST communications services
on the OUTSIDE of amateur radio.

Yes, amateur radio does provide "health and welfare" message
relay and some 'phone patches' to the public...provided those
amateur radio services are ABLE TO SURVIVE a major
environmental disaster. The ARRL failed to "report" on all
the amateur radio facilities that did NOT SURVIVE Katrina
(wouldn't be good for their wish-fulfillment of members to
report that).

Yes, amateur radio DID provide SOME communications AFTER
Katrina had hit. "Health and welfare" messages and some
scattered 'phone patching on the OUTSKIRTS of New Orleans.
NONE of that amateur radio communications effort happened
DURING the height of a REAL emergency situation and the
start of the flooding immediately afterwards. [refer to
the stock video shots such as dozens of bright yellow
school busses sitting in a flooded bus park, empty, up
to their hubcaps in water...busses that could have been
driven by most drivers to help evacuate flood victims,
but were NOT, just ignored by almost everyone there]

"Health and welfare" messaging is emotional sustenance to
family and friends of disaster victims. But, let's face it,
it is NOT ESSENTIAL to saving lives of the victims, does
NOT help repair damange, does NOT evacuate any victims,
does NOT do any lasting service to victims other than to
provide copy for ARRL news pages.

Did Mr. Professional-in-some-kind-of-electronics provide HIS
personal "service to the country" during or after Katrina?
He never said boo about it. He HAS jabbered about his
"service in 'other' ways" (to the nation) but has NEVER
explained those "other ways" in any sort of detail.

Hurricane Katrina was a severe disaster, unprecedented
in recent times (including time hurricanes had routinely
hit Florida). The 'preparations for emergencies' in the
New Orleans area were later revealed to be miniscule (if
not abyssmal and poorly planned. That apparently
INCLUDED amateur radio 'preparations;' the ARRL is
strangely silent on that aspect.

Normally, the REAL emergency services and radio services
OTHER than amateur radio are available 24/7 all over the
nation. Here is what I wrote previously on those:

United States amateur radio could disappear at midnight and
the regular and emergency communications of the USA would
keep on functioning. Police would respond to radio calls,
fire engines would roll, ambulances would be dispatched,
Local governments would continue without pause, already
having lots and lots of radio equipment and operators.
Air traffic would continue, maritime traffic would continue,
trains would still be training, highways would continue to
function (and be repaired/renovated) as needed, all without
ham radio. Cellular telephony would continue (1 in 3
Americans having one), the Internet would continue, landline
telephony would continue. Mass Media (Broadcasting) would
continue unabated. The Forest Service would continue
spotting fires, reporting any via their own radios. River
and Inland Waterways would still have their VHF FM voice
communications. GPSS would continue functioning. NOAA
would still continue with weather information. Emergencies
at sea would still be handled by GMDSS. Emergencies in the
air would still be handled by VHF (over land) and HF voice
(over ocean). Emergencies on land would be handled by a
variety of Public Safety Radio Service facilities, all tied
together in large networks that operate nicely.


My wife and I were in the upper midwest when Katrina hit the Gulf
states' coastline last year. Outside of Katrina being the major
focus of the news, NOTHING affected our stay there. The remaining
weather disturbance reaching the upper midwest DID cause us to
change plans on the return trip. My wife handled all the
reservation changes via cell phone from inside the car while I
was driving through Iowa and on into Nevada. Excellent service
on that. No roadway or motel or restaurant services were
affected. On the 2000 mile return trip we saw only two incidents
of accidents of others, both attended to by existing
infrastructure public safety and towing services.


That's all true. But it does not mean that Amateur Radio does not
perform any service to the country.


The problem is the amateurs that ramp up the actual service to the
country into a superman complex.


*Some* amateurs certainly overstate things about amateur radio.


Thus my posting last month quoting an ARRL VP.


Brian, that is anathema to the morseodist supermen of the ARRL
persuasion. A "no-no" in common speech. The ARRL is always
right, can never be wrong...


However, to say that Amateur Radio performs no service to the country
is incorrect.


Agreed.


In ANY emergency, ANY communications service facility is useful.
One uses whatever is there at the time. The FCC recognizes this
in Part 1 of Title 47 C.F.R. in regards to ALL radio services'
operations in the event of a REAL emergency.



Yet there are times when those communications services are inadequate
for the situation, and Amateur Radio meets the need. That's when
Amateur Radio performs a service to the country.


[that is so RARE that it is almost laughable]

It can be as simple as using Amateur Radio communication to report a
broken-down vehicle in a spot where cell phones don't work.


[that has become a rarity...in the "Big Dig" tunnel complex
of Boston there are internal RF repeaters for that...but
any radio is useless there when the roof pieces fall...]

No, you can't include this. I was laughed at when I suggested that
cellular telephones handle minor emergencies on a day in and day out
basis.


When was that?


Why would you care? You ignore Robesin's all caps, accusatory thread
jacking when it happens.


Jimmy has tunnel vision. He would be at home in Boston in the
tunnel complex...if it weren't so "violent." :-)

Oops! Jimmy allow no violence! I forgot. He would interpret
falling concrete roof slabs as "MY (violent) ERROR!" :-)


Cell phones are certainly useful for "minor emergencies". I've made a
few 911 calls from mine.


Where cell phones have a problem is when too many people in the same
area try to use them simultaneously, exceeding the system capacity.


Yet some calls still are still getting through. Some calls are
performing emergency comms. No?


Not in Jimmyworld. In emergencies ALL infrastructure comms
FAIL and ONLY amateur radio can save the day. Sigh...

Amateurs and amateur radio equipment SURVIVES the harshest
environments and is ready-and-able to SERVE 24/7 !

[gag, guffaw! :-) ]



Another example was when the space shuttle disintegrated on reentry a
few years ago. There was an extensive search effort to find pieces of
the wreckage - which were spread over a wide area.


What was the emergency?


Public service isn't just about emergencies.


Fair enough.

Emergency communications
is just one part of how Amateur Radio provides service to the country.


It can be.


The "service" aspect is largely confined to refills of the
pipe that some smoke while dreaming in front of their radios.

Apparently some feel guilt about enjoying a hobby - or just
inadequate - and try to pretend they are much more important
than just hobbyists. Some pretend to be professionals in an
amateur activity.


The crew were beyond saving. The property was beyond saving.


Finding as much wreckage as possible could help prevent another shuttle
disaster.


How many years were the shuttles grounded? Lots of time to collect the
wreckage.


Mr. Professional-in-SOME-kind-of-work seems to have overlooked
both the NASA statements immediately after the fact, the many,
many pages of news and information about the shuttle disaster,
the probable cause of disintegration (number one suspect on day
one of the tragedy...by the pros involved). The "footprint" of
the breakup was spread over three states in a known path. The
bodies of all astronauts on board were recovered as well as
over 80 percent of the spaceframe. Pictures of the wreckage
laid out in order in a hangar in Florida were printed in
Aviation Week & Space Technology. The vast majority of the
wreckage pieces were found by ordinary citizens, ones who
have not been granted amateur radio licenses.


Some of the communications for the search efforts were conducted by
Amateur Radio, because other facilities were unavailable or did not
meet the needs of the searchers.


So?


So providing communications to the searchers was a service to the
country - even though it wasn't an emergency.


Fair enough.


The ACTUAL communications services were done by existing infra-
structure agencies...everyone from local PDs to the Forest
Service that could be spared from regular work. CITIZENS,
most of whom had NO radio licenses, helped the wreckage
recovery efforts on their own, no ham license required.


That's service to the country.


Not by the definition of saving life or property?


Service is about more than emergencies. The radio services listed by
Len include some which are not primarily about emergencies.


[Torquemada Jim did NOT identify which ones...he only wanted
to light a burning at the stake...:-) ]


Here's a first-person account of a radio amateur who helped with the
Columbia wreckage search:


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r.../msg/5be7f564c...


[...a "vital service to the nation"...disregarding those
who've actually worked on STS components such as the SSME]

[heh heh heh heh heh heh...]


There are many more examples, from hurricane Katrina to providing
communications for a parade or similar event.


OK, you're finally getting to an emergency.


Public service isn't just about emergencies.


Not all communications surrounding Katrina were emcomms.


Tsk, the traditional New Year's Rose Parade uses non-amateur
comms to keep it organized and going, how about that? :-)


Your claim that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the
country is simply not true, Len. It's an error on *your* part - I
didn't make it up.


Just don't overinflate our actual involvement.


Of course.


Here is what was originally written:

Torquemada Jim: "Are you saying that amateur radio does not
perform any service to the country?"

My reply: "Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES."

KABLOOIE! Jimmy HAD to explode in a torrent of "errors."
Gotta love it...push just one button and he detonates.
:-) [...this is more fun than a barrel of morseodists]

Read the report on Hurricane Katrina that details what worked and what
didn't. Amateur Radio provided an important service to the country -
according to the authors of the report.


Fair enough.


FIFTY TWO PAGES WORTH, released 7 Jul 06, got it fresh from the
GPO website when it was released. Interesting but wordy.

Re-skim-reading it, I did NOT see the "importance to the
country" in such glowing, endearing, patriotic terms. That's
probably due to being just an ordinary citizen, having served
my country in the military during a time of war, working as
a professional in radio-electronics...not in the "transport
industry" or busy, busy with manual telegraphy. :-)

US amateur radio is an interesting avocational aspect of the
entire radio world. It can be fun to most of the hobbyists.
But, a few, like Mr. Professional-in-some-kind-of-whatever,
wrap themselves in too much patriotic bunting...they can't
see through that or the many flags they wave about them-
selves. Pity that, only saplings pretending to be mature
trees, unable to see the forest.

[watch the outrageous vituperation flow in now... :-) ]

Beep, beep,



  #895   Report Post  
Old September 16th 06, 09:05 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,027
Default trolling right along


wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 14 2006 3:36 pm

wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 14 2006 4:31 am
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 9:45 pm
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 2:46 pm
wrote:
From: Dave Heil 940 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:26 pm
wrote:
From: on Sun, Sep 10 2006 7:55 am
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:53 pm
wrote:


Oh, dear, the Mighty Macho Morseman is AFRAID?!?

Afraid of VIOLINS? Shall we all BOW down to him lest
he pop a STRING? He wants to ROSIN his way out?

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh, oh, her holiness Mother Superior is on duty!



Awwww..."you don't know...." Poor thing isn't aware or
informed. [David Horowitz would be horrified]

Tsk, I post a cute saying (actually thought up by another
amateur extra who did pass a 20 WPM code test) and you
come all UNGLUED! Quick, call Eastman for more
cyanoacrylic adhesive!


Me, "upset?" I pushed your buttons, mighty morseman
and you come back in TYPICAL fashion, all prissy-sissy.

Makes it very easy to walk all over your posting!


Nope. You've lost control after hitting the spike strip
of reality on the morse highway.


Devout morsemen can either hang together or hang separately.
No problem to me. [got enough rope for either]

Oh! Oh! Tremble, Jimmy, "more violence!" "more violence!"



Poor baby, still FIXATED on 7 years ago!

I STOPPED pursuing that suggestion to the FCC (on the
last page of my Comment on NPRM 98-143) SEVEN YEARS AGO!
Since FCC 99-412 (the Report and Order on Restructuring)
nullified all those Comments in regards to the FCC
decision and did not pick up on my suggestion, I didn't
continue after that.

BUT...all the angry pro-code-test morsemen seem to LIKE
necro-equine flagellation ('beating a dead horse') and
a few beaters (like yourself) are intent on trying to
breathe life in to the creature no matter what.

We can all guess WHY you are doing it, Jimmy. You are
obsessed with trying to prove ME 'doing wrong' and have
MANUFACTURED things that haven't existed for a long time.

DROP it, Jimmy. I did, long ago. All you are doing is
beating off, er beating that very dead horse.

Stop with your necrophilia.


Your "friends and neighbors" might not come over to "admire
your work!"

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riiiight...but you love to attempt controlling what I
write! :-)


Mais non, mon petit. I just stated what I did and where
at what time. If you think that was 'better than you'
then you have an odd insecurity problem.


You have a case by Halliburton. :-)


Tsk, tsk, then all YOU are is ON THE SIDELINES YELLING
at no-code-test advocates. :-)


None at all. :-) If you were worth the effort you'd have
been Replied to. No problem.


Are you my waiter tonight? Good, then you can serve us
something palatable instead of long-dead, severly beaten
horsemeat.


Try to get your act together. And be quick with that
horsemeat.



Now, it MIGHT happen that aliens from outer space MIGHT
invade the earth. "ONLY" morse code skill can possibly
thwart these advanced aliens who have sufficient knowledge
and intelligence to cross interstellar space? [work on
your script some more...it was already done...]


Tsk, tsk, tsk...all of Heil's 'foreign service' adventures,
salary, expenses, et al, came DIRECTLY out of government.
No "subsidy" there.

I have NEVER worked for any business, company, corporation
that was "subsidized" by the government. NONE.

You are confused on the use of the word "subsidy."


And the REST of us are kept in the dark. Is this a mystery
game you made up? :-) Something to take the place of
playing "old maid?"

Are you ASHAMED of your job? AFRAID someone will POKE FUN
at it? Why? You aren't hesitant about poking fun at whatever
job a no-code-test-advocate has...you've done that repeatedly.


Save all your homily grits for the next 9/11 anniversary.

Don't try to weasel out of what I said.


Then start SHOWING that "respect" to some of us you've
made fun of...HYPOCRITE.



But, you still don't have the GUTS to tell "the rest of us"
in this newsgroup what, where of your employment, do you?
No, you want to negatively criticize those of us who are
proud and enthusiastic about what we do, have done.


WE already know, Jimmy...you ain't got the GUTS to do so.


Sigh...let me rephrase: You haven't got the COURAGE.

"Guts" is too visceral for sissy-prissies.


And here you were, rushing home from "work in transportation"
to answer without much "civility" and with lots of semantic
juggling to attempt defending your previous statements. :-)

I don't HEAR you on the radio! :-)


You "*are* superior" because you are a morseman. :-)

Morsemen are "always right" in your view, aren't they?


YOU are always "selling a bill of goods." :-)

We see your "hat" but we can't hear any hoofbeats of
all that "cattle." :-)

Is your Hide Raw?


Poor baby...got TWO "thumbs down," did you?


No, sweetums, YOU MAKE THEM UP...then say "I" made them.


You want what you paid me for professional work in here
refunded? Okay, attached to this message is a refund. :-)


Call the ACLU, call the Attorney General, call for
Philip and call for Morris. Poor baby, wanna act
smug and arrogant and superior and hope to get LIKED?!?

Only by some masochist, sweetums. :-)


You are a morseman and you're okay... :-)

You are naturally superior in all aspects. Except
your aspect is in a sling.


Oh, you expect ALL your "inferiors" to be masochists?

Tsk, tsk, the FCC has NO age limit on amateur radio.
Now YOU don't like childish behavior? Too bad, the
FCC would allow a 2-year-old to hold a ham license. :-)


Drop this "show us" ploy, Jimmy Noserve. That's an OLD
trick, trying to make the challenged go through all those
(if available) archives, cut-and-paste, only to have you
rationalize YOU are "right" because you're a morseman, etc.
:-)

That "show us" response of actually showing where and when
you did it is negative ROI. As I said, you, when
confronted, will DENY it, rationalize some "reasons" that
you are "right" and then ignore it. :-)

Besides, OLD POSTS are in the past...they've already been
argued over. You are NOT going to "win" any such OLD
argument by repetition of the SAME posts from archives!
But...you keep on trying and trying and trying. You got
very trying a long time ago.


Ah! The no-guts rationalization hard at work! :-)

So..."someone else" isn't bothered with, but you DO
try to bring me down every chance you get! :-)

What do you FEAR from me, Jimmy? C'mon, you can level
with the group...

You don't like your image from the other side of your
screen described for others? Tsk...and a Mother Superior
at that!


Is that an ORDER, Mother? Or just something FROM the Order?

["Give a nun an inch and she thinks she's a ruler!]

Now be good and change your Habit.

Say goodnight...grazie.

Slap, slap,



There you have it. Len acts surprised when he is called on his actions.


I disagree. Where is the surprise?

I think Len expects that you'll attempt to denigrate him as you've
previously done.


It's so expected that one can use the phrase "take it to the bank"!
:-)

Poor Dave, still upset about cashews in Guinea-Bisseau and unable
to "synchronize his teleprinters." :-)

"Hi, I'm Dave, I'll be your SERVER tonight..." :-)





  #896   Report Post  
Old September 17th 06, 01:24 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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Default Service To The Country


wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

Are you saying that amateur radio does not perform any service to the
country?

Encapsulated in the briefest meaning, YES.

You're just plain wrong about that, Len.

I disagree with Len on this point. Amateur Radio can be a service to
the country.

I say Amateur Radio does perform service to the country. Not just
"can", but "does".


Every amateur transmission is a service to the country?


Of course not.


Then not all amateur transmissions are a service to the country.

Are all amateurs a service to the country?

Even if all Amateur Radio does is provide a back-up communications
system, that's a service.


A back-up provides exactly the same kind of service as the service that
is being backed up.


Not necessarily. A backup provides a service that can replace the
service that is being backed up, but may not be exactly the same. For
example, when the electrical utility service fails, many people will
depend on candles, lanterns and flashlights for lighting. Those things
aren't exactly the same as what is backed up but they do the job. Of
course a whole-house backup generator is preferable and will deliver
backup electricity that is almost the same as the utility.

For an Amateur Radio example, two Red Cross facilities may usually
communicate supply lists by email. If their email fails, Amateur Radio
could step in with WinLink and provide a very similar service. But if
WinLink is not available, the lists could be sent by radio amateurs
using PSK31, voice or, yes, even Morse Code. All depends on what's
available at the time. Getting a list that was sent by voice and is
hand-written might not be exactly the same as getting it by email, but
it will do until the email is working again.

Does amateur radio provide that?


Sometimes (WinLink vs. email) but not usually. But a backup that is
exactly the same as the backed-up service is not essential. In fact, if
the backup is exactly the same, what you have is redundancy.


At what point does the ICS commander take the amateur radio away from
you and starts communicating on his own?

United States amateur radio could disappear at midnight and
the regular and emergency communications of the USA would
keep on functioning. Police would respond to radio calls,
fire engines would roll, ambulances would be dispatched,
Local governments would continue without pause, already
having lots and lots of radio equipment and operators.
Air traffic would continue, maritime traffic would continue,
trains would still be training, highways would continue to
function (and be repaired/renovated) as needed, all without
ham radio. Cellular telephony would continue (1 in 3
Americans having one), the Internet would continue, landline
telephony would continue. Mass Media (Broadcasting) would
continue unabated. The Forest Service would continue
spotting fires, reporting any via their own radios. River
and Inland Waterways would still have their VHF FM voice
communications. GPSS would continue functioning. NOAA
would still continue with weather information. Emergencies
at sea would still be handled by GMDSS. Emergencies in the
air would still be handled by VHF (over land) and HF voice
(over ocean). Emergencies on land would be handled by a
variety of Public Safety Radio Service facilities, all tied
together in large networks that operate nicely.

That's all true. But it does not mean that Amateur Radio does not
perform any service to the country.

The problem is the amateurs that ramp up the actual service to the
country into a superman complex.

*Some* amateurs certainly overstate things about amateur radio.


Thus my posting last month quoting an ARRL VP.


I missed that one. Did he overstate?


She.

However, to say that Amateur Radio performs no service to the country
is incorrect.


Agreed.

All in the preceding paragraph are INDEPENDENT of amateur
radio, Jimmy. They ARE a definite SERVICE to the USA and
the people within it. Public safety 24/7.

Yet there are times when those communications services are inadequate
for the situation, and Amateur Radio meets the need. That's when
Amateur Radio performs a service to the country.

It can be as simple as using Amateur Radio communication to report a
broken-down vehicle in a spot where cell phones don't work.

No, you can't include this. I was laughed at when I suggested that
cellular telephones handle minor emergencies on a day in and day out
basis.

When was that?


Why would you care? You ignore Robesin's all caps, accusatory thread
jacking when it happens.


I don't read much of rrap. They're simply too much volume and too
little time. I stopped reading rrap completely for several months
because of all the noise, and reverted to just posting the ARS license
numbers for a while.

Which reminds me - time for the next post in that thread.

Cell phones are certainly useful for "minor emergencies". I've made a
few 911 calls from mine.

Where cell phones have a problem is when too many people in the same
area try to use them simultaneously, exceeding the system capacity.


Yet some calls still are still getting through. Some calls are
performing emergency comms. No?


Yes! The problem is that cell phone communications may not be available
when most needed.

Massive cell phone system failure can occur when power fails for an
extended time and the backup power runs out.


That can also render many or most amateur stations inop.

So if these emergencies aren't really emergencies, then when a no-coder
with a VHF radio steps in where the cell network doesn't cover, the
"emergency" still isn't an emergency.

Another example was when the space shuttle disintegrated on reentry a
few years ago. There was an extensive search effort to find pieces of
the wreckage - which were spread over a wide area.

What was the emergency?

Public service isn't just about emergencies.


Fair enough.

Emergency communications
is just one part of how Amateur Radio provides service to the country.


It can be.


When it happens.

The crew were beyond saving. The property was beyond saving.

Finding as much wreckage as possible could help prevent another shuttle
disaster.


How many years were the shuttles grounded? Lots of time to collect the
wreckage.


But the longer the wreckage was out in the weather, the less
information could be had from it, and the harder it would be to find.
Plus the sooner any information could be gathered, the sooner it could
be acted upon.


They could have bought it off of ebay.

Some of the communications for the search efforts were conducted by
Amateur Radio, because other facilities were unavailable or did not
meet the needs of the searchers.

So?

So providing communications to the searchers was a service to the
country - even though it wasn't an emergency.


Fair enough.

That's service to the country.

Not by the definition of saving life or property?

Service is about more than emergencies. The radio services listed by
Len include some which are not primarily about emergencies.

Here's a first-person account of a radio amateur who helped with the
Columbia wreckage search:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...9?dmode=source

There are many more examples, from hurricane Katrina to providing
communications for a parade or similar event.

OK, you're finally getting to an emergency.

Public service isn't just about emergencies.


Not all communications surrounding Katrina were emcomms.


Of course.

Your claim that Amateur Radio does not perform any service to the
country is simply not true, Len. It's an error on *your* part - I
didn't make it up.

Just don't overinflate our actual involvement.

Of course.

Read the report on Hurricane Katrina that details what worked and what
didn't. Amateur Radio provided an important service to the country -
according to the authors of the report.

Fair enough.


"Service to the country" is one reason for the continued existence of
the Amateur Radio Service.

---

Now a question:

- Does the fact that Amateur Radio "provides service to the country"
mean that the ARS is more than "just a hobby"?


It can be. ;^)

  #897   Report Post  
Old September 17th 06, 04:32 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,554
Default trolling right along


Jonathan wrote:

'slow code stalker at large

  #898   Report Post  
Old September 17th 06, 05:17 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,554
Default trolling right along


Not Lloyd wrote:

slow code stalker at large

  #899   Report Post  
Old September 17th 06, 05:27 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Sep 2006
Posts: 12
Default Service To The Country



US amateur radio is an interesting avocational aspect of the
entire radio world. It can be fun to most of the hobbyists.
But, a few, like Mr. Professional-in-some-kind-of-whatever,
wrap themselves in too much patriotic bunting...they can't
see through that or the many flags they wave about them-
selves. Pity that, only saplings pretending to be mature
trees, unable to see the forest.

[watch the outrageous vituperation flow in now... :-) ]

Beep, beep,





YAWN


  #900   Report Post  
Old September 17th 06, 05:29 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Sep 2006
Posts: 12
Default trolling right along



Poor Dave, still upset about cashews in Guinea-Bisseau and unable
to "synchronize his teleprinters." :-)

"Hi, I'm Dave, I'll be your SERVER tonight..." :-)





More effluent. YAWN.




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