***Forgive the top posting***

I was requested to define "Amateur Service" ... what service?

"47 CFR 97.3 Definitions:

(a) Definitions of terms used in Part 97 a

(1) Amateur operator ... redacted
(2) Amateur radio Services ... redacted
(3) Amateur Satellite Service ... redacted
(4) Amateur Service. A radio communication for the purpose of self training,
intercommunication and technical investigations carries out by amateurs, that
is, duly authorized persons interested in the radio technique solely with a
personal aim and without pecuniary interest."

Definitions [a][5] through [a][46] and section [b] in it's entirety have been
excluded.

There are three elements of the amateur service: 1) 'self training' in any and
all aspects of electro-magnetic radio telecommunication [notice this is listed
first]; 2) 'intercommunication' includes talking, satellite techniques,
television techniques [yes, amateurs can design and operate wideband tv],
microwave techniques, digital techniques, spread spectrum techniques, CW, AM,
SSB, FM, etc.; 3) 'technical investigations' include propagation studies at HF,
VHF, UHF and microwave, EME activities, antenna developments, new modulation
modes [particularly in digital communications], error correction techniques in
digital communication, bandwidth compression techniques, and any number of
Physics and Electronic areas of investigation.

Amateur [non financially compensated] radio is much more than buying a box and
using it to just talk with someone. IMO, it is a service wherein the amateur, a
duly authorized person, is committed to self training [education] in some
components of the electromagnetic radio communication arts and sciences.

"Duly Authorized" requires authorization by competent authority after a
demonstration of some related skill or knowledge by the person seeking to be
'duly authorized'. If a demonstrable skill level is NOT required then "Duly
Authorized' does not make sense.

If you just want to talk, the 11 meter band or the FRS will meet your needs.

/s/ DD [AKA Dave]

Anonymous wrote:
Dave Said:


Amateur Radio is a SERVICE!!! If you only think of it as a hobby your thinking
is flawed.


Hi Dave,

I've seen you refer to service vs hobby a number of times in this thread. As a noob here, could you explain
this? What do you mean by 'service'? Getting on, talking to others...communicating with others seems more of
a hobby to me.

Can you explain the service aspects of ham radio that you are referring to....can you define for me 'service'
and why amateur radio is a service to you rather than a hobby?

wrote:
wrote:

wrote:

wrote:


Why should radio amateurs not oppose the changes an outsider like you
wants to force on us, when you opposed the changes an outsider tried to
force on your neighborhood?

if len were the only one youu would have a point but still Len is a
member of the public as such he has everight and civic duty to demand
it be used properly

The amateur bands are a sort of home to us, not you.

except you want to enage in redlining, an ilgeal practice in most cases
of those hams like myself that simply disagree with as to what is proper


No sweat to me, Mark. Jimmie wasn't here, wasn't a PARTICIPANT
in the zoning board meetings, doesn't own land or property out here
but is desperately searching for some kind of "incident" to GET
EVEN! :-)

That's eerie, Len. You aren't involved in amateur radio. You have no
amateur license and aren't a stakeholder in amateur radio. Yet you want
to tell those in amateur radio what is best for them. You can't help
yourself, I guess.

Sigh...Jimmie just can't help hisself, I guess. Morsemen think
they are top dogs when they are only little dachshunds in the
kennel. Arf, arf. :-)

You're still yapping outside the kennel, trying to get in.


Dave

wrote:
From: Dave Heil 940 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:26 pm


wrote:

From: on Sun, Sep 10 2006 7:55 am

wrote:

From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:53 pm

wrote:


BUT...*ONLY* if they love, honor, and obey manual morse code
and the ultra-noble ARRL (which can do no wrong).

In other words, a "Val Germann" type. :-)

Sounds about right. I wonder if Val worked at Radio Shack, if he would
be ineligible for an ARRL elected office (i.e., a volunteer)???

No, not with his "company man" statements about loving
morse and willing to toe the line drawn by the wire-
pullers in Newington. The ARRL can do no wrong.

Besides, with Heil and Miccolis' endorsements, he would
be a shoe-in. No problem. Huzzah! :-)

That might be pretty close to the mark.

Now prepare for the male genitalia, homosexual inuendo, claims of
pedophilia, and the consumption of excrement remarks from Robesin,
while Dave and Jim stand by silently endorsing such behavior.

Don't forget Robesin's "threats" to contact our wives.
Or his attempts at being "another" poster (anonymous,
of course) to misdirect our time. :-)

I'd say that Herr Robust and Mother Superior secretly
WANT to say what Major Dud does but are afraid to do the
same.

If you'd say that, you'd certainly be wrong in my case. I'd say that
you accuse others of doing things and then you break out in the
"Robesin-Herr Robust-Mother Superior" mode and destroy any credibility
you had.


Tsk, tsk, Heil does NOT control or define "credibility."

I'm quite capable of understanding and using the definition of the word.
You are absolutely guilty of carrying out that which you deride in others.

He is NOT a "participant" in credibility. :-)

I'd stake my credibility against yours any time, Leonard. :-) :-)


I'm an active participant in amateur radio. You are irrelevant to
amateur radio.


(1) The FCC regulates US amateur radio, NOT its
"participants."

You are not the FCC. I rest my case.

Lose the "boyz in da hood"
attitude...it is not relevant.

You don't give orders here or in amateur radio.

(2) The FCC will (it must, by law) accept input on any
regulations under Title 47 C.F.R. from ANY CITIZEN.

You are certainly "any citizen". You've had your input accepted. Happy?

There is NO "requirement" that anyone "must be
licensed" or be "an active participant" in US amateur
radio.

Can you tell us what percentage of changes to the FCC regs governing
amateur radio have come about because of input or ideas from ordinary
citizens, not associated in any way with amateur radio?

(3) The issue of morse code testing of amateur radio
license applicants affects those WHO MIGHT WANT TO
GET INTO AMATEUR RADIO.

There you have a dilemma. Alternatively, you've told us that you don't
have any desire to obtain an amateur radio license and that you've had a
decades-long interest in amateur radio.

Already-tested extras
are NOT INVOLVED in GETTING INTO amateur radio; they
are already "in" it.

....and any change which comes to amateur radio directly effects each and
every radio amateur.

Have you understood these truisms as they've been explained
to you? If so, feel free to re-stick your carrot, Wallace.
Go mind your business at "Anti-Pesto."

Your "truisms" don't seem to be true, Leonardo. What's "Anti-Pesto",
another thing you're against?


Okay, let's all hear it for the ARRL as part and parcel
of the US Judicial System (as the Believers intone here)!
ARRL and morsemanship are noble, good, and true, can
never be wrong! :-)

I recall pointing out to Brian Burke that we were discussing ARRL
elections and *not* the U.S. Judicial System. Your statement is
diversionary bafflegab.


Poor baby. Can't dig the sarcasm and ridicule?

Tsk, tsk. Poor Bafflegab-Is-Us Anderson. You're still on the outside,
still irrelevant and still in the dark over the carrot and stick.

Closed minds
can't accept any other views so such must appear as
"bafflegab." Must be irritating to be so disadvantaged,
one-sided.

Funny that your paragraph applies to your actions concerning amateur
radio regulation. You don't tolerate any views other than your own.
You don't play well with others.


Dave

wrote:
From: 951 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:28 pm


wrote:

From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:42 pm

wrote:

From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 5:30 pm

Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am

But the point is that a lot of changes have occurred in the real-estate
and construction industries in 40+ years. New technologies - new
methods - new financial and tax environments.


Tsk. I'm acquainted with most of those...IN THIS AREA.
You are NOT.

I think Jim and I are acquainted with what goes on IN AMATEUR RADIO.
You are NOT.


But you wanted to keep your neighborhood stuck in the past, with the
"little boxes on the hillside'...


We weren't "stuck in the past," Jimmie. We LIVE here.

You LIVE in the past out there? I have to hand it to you, Len. That's
a frank admission.

The hillsides go up and down roughly 900 feet in
elevation and the "boxes" average about 21,000 square
feet floorspace.

Wow, and I thought a 4,000 square foot house was BIG. Imagine, 21,000
square feet of floor space!

My back yard is 820 feet MSL (that's
a term from aviation referring to above Mean Sea
Level), and quite unlikely to be flooded. :-) The area
ground is mostly decomposed granite and quite stable.

My back yard is at 1520 feet ASL (that's a term from topography
referring to "above sea level". If it floods, those at 820 feet are
going to be UW (an insurance company term for "under water"). We like
our rocks in their undecomposed state. They're even more stable that way.

Sure - 40 years ago, Does that mean the zoning should never ever
change?


Zoning should NOT change on a whim.

That's a good thing. Neither should amateur radio regulations change on
a whim.

LIVING, in a
home isn't subject to radio regulations. Humans have
had homes for thousands of years. Radio is only 110
years old, early radio hardly comparable to modern
radio; it has changed many times in that short span.

Try reading up on Real Property, the concept and the
laws governing it over the known thousands of years
of humans having homes.

I tried, but was unable to come up with any several thousand-year-old
books on real property law.


Here's a clue, Len: An apartment can be a home, same as a 'house' can
be a home.


Here's a BIGGER "clue," Jimmy: This thread is about "using
'CW' in an emergency" not your constant bringing-up of old
Character Assassination charges.

Here's an even BIGGER clue, Len. Some fool changed this thread to
"Jimmy's Follies In Bad Analogies". You're lost.

Besides, I mentioned
ZONING ordinances, not your small-caliber assassination
ammunition.

All of this seems to run at odds to your views on changes to amateur
radio regulation.


That owner
managed to get the zoning code changed over the protests
of several of us and the neighborhood association at
a city zoning board meeting in the middle of the 1990s.

"Several of you". Interesting. Hundreds of homes in your neighborhood
but only "several of you" protested.


Tsk, your argument is over minutae. I didn't do an Exact
Head Count sweetums. Neither am I going to trot out old
paperwork just to refute some kind of weird "charges" you
bring up. The meetings had OVER a hundred people based
on filling the two meeting places, both having a maximum-
occupancy fire marshall's sign. :-)

Pay attention to what you quoted from me later on...there's
a number there...but you didn't comment on that.


The point is you opposed the change.

And you thought those who were already *in* the neighborhood should
overrule those who were trying to "get into" the neighhborhood.


Ah, your "point" is clear. :-) You are trying to make
an analogy to amateur radio regulations and the arguments
over retention/elimination of the morse code test.

Trying, hell! He not only made one, he made a good one.

Okay, so you must LIVE in "the bands" with your little
Elecraft. My neighbors and I live in HOMES HERE, not
really concerning themselves with radiotelegraphy.


Not only have you mixed metaphors but you have mixed
your fruit cocktail of "analogies" very, very badly.

If this was a rodeo, you've been tossed and roped, little dogie.



And you complained about the noise, too...


Ah, we should be SHEEP accepting everything? :-) You
don't understand the scope of operations on 15 acres
adjacent to one's back yard, do you? Want to listen to
at least a dozen OHSA back-up beepers from 7 AM to late
afternoon? Of course you do, must be like morse code
on "the bands." :-)

There's another amateur radio regulation analogy, Len. Why not see if
you can fill in the parallel?


but as the neighborhood association as a group
wanted it (over 400 residence members). Those of us who
OWN residences and LIVE in them understand that a residence
area should change zoning laws as little as possible.

How is that any different from those of us *in* amateur radio and who
participate in it. who understand that a some regulations should change
as little as possible?


Oh, dear, you are REALLY stuck in comparing lettuce with
lava, aren't you? :-)

Earth to Jimmy: Come in, Jimmy, you are drifting too far
into deep space with your analogy vessel. You are starting
to resemble "Brewster Rockit, space guy" in the comic strips.

Yawn, there is MORE of Jimmy's exercise in assassination
futility.

How is it "assassination", Len? When it came time for development in
your area, you fought against progress and change. You defended your
perceived turf. But, when it comes to amateur radio...

You're pretty two faced, Len.

Dave K8MN

From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 2:46 pm

wrote:
From: Dave Heil 940 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:26 pm
wrote:
From: on Sun, Sep 10 2006 7:55 am
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:53 pm
wrote:


If you'd say that, you'd certainly be wrong in my case. I'd say that
you accuse others of doing things and then you break out in the
"Robesin-Herr Robust-Mother Superior" mode and destroy any credibility
you had.

Tsk, tsk, Heil does NOT control or define "credibility."

I'm quite capable of understanding and using the definition of the word.

AND Hypocrisy. Witness your repeated use of "red-hatted
monkey" and "organ grinder" and "group myna (bird)" and
"Major Hoople" and a dozen or other subriquets (and brick-
bats) applied to those you cannot relate to...a small
sampling of your arrogant variation of "playing with others."


(1) The FCC regulates US amateur radio, NOT its
"participants."

You are not the FCC.

YOU are not of the FCC, not an official thereof, just another
amateur extra who gets overly angry at opposing opinions
when nobody obeys his arrogant 'commands.'

I rest my case.

Too heavy for you to carry? Ask a senior citizen to help you.

Lose the "boyz in da hood"

No. The name is almost perfect in describing the 'tude
of the morsemen dudes.

You do NOT tell me what to do, Herr Robust.

You don't give orders here or in amateur radio.

YOU sure as hell do NOT. :-)


(2) The FCC will (it must, by law) accept input on any
regulations under Title 47 C.F.R. from ANY CITIZEN.

You are certainly "any citizen".

I am a citizen of the United States of America.


(3) The issue of morse code testing of amateur radio
license applicants affects those WHO MIGHT WANT TO
GET INTO AMATEUR RADIO.

There you have a dilemma.

None at all. I got INTO radio in 1953.

Alternatively, you've told us that you don't
have any desire to obtain an amateur radio license

True. I was granted a Commercial First 'Phone in 1956. That's
a license for a professional. I lost interest in being an
amateur after being a professional.

..and that you've had a decades-long interest in amateur radio.

I've had a decades-long interest in RADIO and ELECTRONICS.

So much so that I made a career change about 48 years
ago and stayed in radio-electronics. I didn't limit
myself to just amateurism...


Have you understood these truisms as they've been explained
to you? If so, feel free to re-stick your carrot, Wallace.
Go mind your business at "Anti-Pesto."

Your "truisms" don't seem to be true, Leonardo. What's "Anti-Pesto",
another thing you're against?

Had you seen a full-length animated film called "The
Curse of the Were-Rabbit" in 2005 you would understand.
You do not understand the joke, therefore you did not
see a funny movie. :-)

Go rent a DVD of it and enjoy...that is, if you can
enjoy being away from da boyz in da 'hood, sipping
hot buttered rum in front of a fireplace with guys
trying to make fun of others. :-)

Funny that your paragraph applies to your actions concerning amateur
radio regulation.

Tsk, tsk, all I am doing is advocating the elimination
of the amateur radio morse code test.

You don't tolerate any views other than your own.

I tolerate those who demand retention of the code test
in perpetuity with no validity other than their emotion
and selfishness. I also speak out against them. The
pro-code-test morse zealots cannot handle that, poor
babies. Not my problem.

If someone wants to do REAL debate, discussion I will be
more than happy to comply. But that does not mean I
will lie down and accept everything they say.

You don't play well with others.

I don't "play" with arrogant retrogrades intent on being
the ruler in some archaic radiotelegraphy society...I tell
everyone what they are, stand up to them, and tell them
what to do with their "carrot": Stick it.

From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 3:13 pm


wrote:
From: 951 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:28 pm
wrote:
From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:42 pm
wrote:
From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 5:30 pm
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am

But the point is that a lot of changes have occurred in the real-estate
and construction industries in 40+ years. New technologies - new
methods - new financial and tax environments.

Tsk. I'm acquainted with most of those...IN THIS AREA.
You are NOT.

I think Jim and I are acquainted with what goes on IN AMATEUR RADIO.

You have many years as a licensed radio amateur. But, you
are NOT, nor have you ever been, a PARTICIPANT in Los Angeles
Zoning Board activities, meetings, nor a PARTICIPANT in owning
real property in Los Angeles County.

Real property and Zoning ordinances are NOT, nor have they
ever been a "radio subject." End this sub-thread because
it does not apply.

N2EY tried to magnify one of my old statements, taking it well
out of context, attempting to MANUFACTURE some personal
"defect" of mine. His product QC was terrible and the product
FAILED. N2EY was a NON-PARTICIPANT in real estate and Zoning
in Los Angeles. In other words, he didn't know his ass from
a hole in the ground on that.

However, to charge that "I know nothing of amateur radio"
is INCORRECT, IN ERROR. One does NOT need to be a licensed
radio amateur to "know about it." United States radio
amateur activity is NOT "secret." Several radio amateur
interest group organizations freely offer detailed information
on what they think US amateur radio involves.

Amateur 'radio' technology is the SAME as every other radio
technology, although lagging behind the rest of the radio
world in a few technical areas. NONE of that technology is
"secret" nor is it "revealed" to someone just receiving a
federal license permitting the RF energy emission according
to government regulations. Those government regulations are
open to all, not secret, and are freely available over the
US Government Printing Office website.

Anyone with a receiver can hear for themselves what radio
amateurs DO "on the air." US government (FCC) regulations
forbid the use of encryption (for deliberate obfuscation
of information transmitted) in amateur radio transmissions.
There is NO RESTRICTION on personal communications off-air
by any citizen with another citizen who is a licensed
radio amateur. I have several friends of long-standing
who are licensed radio amateurs, one of them going back
to US Army service days.

The FCC does not restrict ANYONE from communicating with
the FCC on ANY RADIO SERVICE or any other interstate
communications service they regulate. They are required
BY LAW to be open to communications from ALL CITIZENS.

By personal experience, I have been involved in HF radio
transmission beginning 53 years ago and have been granted
a Commercial radio operator license in 1956. I AM
experienced in radio communications from VLF on up to
25 GHz. US radio amateurs are NOT allocated any bands
below 160m and the allocated emission types are limited
(again BY LAW), such limitations lesser than my hands-on
experiences. I have written for, been published, even
employed as an editor for an amateur radio magazine, an
independent that existed for 22 years.

You are NOT.

You are hopelessly stuck in a personal attack mode and
will not leave it.

To reiterate: YOU are NOT INVOLVED in Los Angeles real
estate nor the Zoning laws of this city. Further, YOU
know bupkis about that as it applies here. It is NOT
a subject for this newsgroup, not even close to that.

Your only effort in this thread is to attempt some
personal denigration of myself. That wastes time for
others, does little except making you look the asshole,
and is a FAILURE.

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 2:46 pm


wrote:

From: Dave Heil 940 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:26 pm

wrote:

From: on Sun, Sep 10 2006 7:55 am

wrote:

From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:53 pm

wrote:



If you'd say that, you'd certainly be wrong in my case. I'd say that
you accuse others of doing things and then you break out in the
"Robesin-Herr Robust-Mother Superior" mode and destroy any credibility
you had.

Tsk, tsk, Heil does NOT control or define "credibility."

I'm quite capable of understanding and using the definition of the word.


AND Hypocrisy. Witness your repeated use of "red-hatted
monkey" and "organ grinder" and "group myna (bird)" and
"Major Hoople" and a dozen or other subriquets (and brick-
bats) applied to those you cannot relate to...a small
sampling of your arrogant variation of "playing with others."

As I told you earlier, you get what you dish out. You'd no sooner blown
back into this newsgroup when you started with the cutesy names. Brian
is guilty of the same technique. As for Mark, his posting record speaks
for itself. He *is* the group Myna bird.



(1) The FCC regulates US amateur radio, NOT its
"participants."

You are not the FCC.


YOU are not of the FCC, not an official thereof...

No, I am not. You just stated who regulates U.S. amateur radio.
You are not one who does.

just another
amateur extra who gets overly angry at opposing opinions
when nobody obeys his arrogant 'commands.'

How much anger makes up "overly angry", Len? What gives you the idea
that I'm angry at all? Nobody has given more commands or invited more
people to leave than Len Anderson.


I rest my case.


Too heavy for you to carry? Ask a senior citizen to help you.

Are you volunteering to carry my luggage, Len?

Lose the "boyz in da hood"


No.

You're responding to something you wrote?

The name is almost perfect in describing the 'tude
of the morsemen dudes.

You do NOT tell me what to do, Herr Robust.

Well, Foghorn, you told you what to do. You responded to an error in
the attributions. Well done. Len Anderson isn't going to push Len
Anderson around!


You don't give orders here or in amateur radio.


YOU sure as hell do NOT. :-)

You can capitalize words and stomp your tired old feet all day long. As
long as I'm able to continue enjoying amateur radio and you stand on the
outside, pouting, life is pretty good, Len. Have a nice day.

(2) The FCC will (it must, by law) accept input on any
regulations under Title 47 C.F.R. from ANY CITIZEN.

You are certainly "any citizen".


I am a citizen of the United States of America.

What'd I just write? Your citizenship is acknowledged. You commented to
the FCC. Happy now?

(3) The issue of morse code testing of amateur radio
license applicants affects those WHO MIGHT WANT TO
GET INTO AMATEUR RADIO.

There you have a dilemma.


None at all. I got INTO radio in 1953.

You keep flipping the channel, OM. You wrote "AMATEUR" RADIO above.
Now you've switched to the generic "radio". You've never gotten into
"AMATEUR radio".


Alternatively, you've told us that you don't
have any desire to obtain an amateur radio license


True. I was granted a Commercial First 'Phone in 1956. That's
a license for a professional. I lost interest in being an
amateur after being a professional.

It looks as if you have your wish. You needn't worry about amateur
radio. Feel free to appoint yourself advocate for something-or-other in
professional radio.


..and that you've had a decades-long interest in amateur radio.


I've had a decades-long interest in RADIO and ELECTRONICS.

That isn't what you wrote. You used the words "amateur radio".

So much so that I made a career change about 48 years
ago and stayed in radio-electronics. I didn't limit
myself to just amateurism...

You've limited yourself by not including "amateurism". You're a victim
of inertia.



Have you understood these truisms as they've been explained
to you? If so, feel free to re-stick your carrot, Wallace.
Go mind your business at "Anti-Pesto."

Your "truisms" don't seem to be true, Leonardo. What's "Anti-Pesto",
another thing you're against?


Had you seen a full-length animated film called "The
Curse of the Were-Rabbit" in 2005 you would understand.

I didn't choose to see it. It sounds awful.

You do not understand the joke, therefore you did not
see a funny movie. :-)

I've seen lots of funny movies, Len. Some of 'em were even
intentionally funny.

Go rent a DVD of it and enjoy...

You don't give orders here, Len.

...that is, if you can
enjoy being away from da boyz in da 'hood,

Do you wear your pants at half mast and your ball cap backward?

...sipping
hot buttered rum in front of a fireplace with guys
trying to make fun of others. :-)

It's much too warm for the hot buttered rum. I'm still enjoying mint
juleps. We don't generally light a fire in the fireplace until sometime
in October. It is rare that we laugh at anyone other than the wrinkled
kid with his pants at half mast. He stands outside and periodically
barks an order.


Funny that your paragraph applies to your actions concerning amateur
radio regulation.


Tsk, tsk, all I am doing is advocating the elimination
of the amateur radio morse code test.

Yep. You want just a little piece of something in which you aren't
involved.


You don't tolerate any views other than your own.


I tolerate those who demand retention of the code test
in perpetuity with no validity other than their emotion
and selfishness.

On the other hand, you don't see your own actions as selfish and you
don't see that is possible that you are wrong. You've shown no
tolerance for those whose views is opposite your own.

I also speak out against them. The
pro-code-test morse zealots cannot handle that, poor
babies. Not my problem.

Sure it's your problem. Your own manner is part of your problem, poor
baby. Tsk, tsk.

If someone wants to do REAL debate, discussion I will be
more than happy to comply.

You've claimed in the past to only be here for civil debate. Your
record shows otherwise. Your words are disingenuous.

But that does not mean I
will lie down and accept everything they say.

There has been no evidence that you accept *anything* they say. You
don't even accept it standing up.


You don't play well with others.


I don't "play" with arrogant retrogrades intent on being
the ruler in some archaic radiotelegraphy society...

I know of no such organization. Give 'em my regards.

I tell
everyone what they are, stand up to them, and tell them
what to do with their "carrot": Stick it.

The above statement points the way to your failure to win converts in
this venue. Just continue to stand there, on the outside, and tell us
how to construct the building, kindly old gent.


Dave

wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon, Sep 11 2006 3:13 pm



wrote:

From: 951 on Sun, Sep 10 2006 3:28 pm

wrote:

From: on Thurs, Sep 7 2006 6:42 pm

wrote:

From: on Mon, Sep 4 2006 5:30 pm

Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

From: an old friend on Sun, Sep 3 2006 10:09 am


But the point is that a lot of changes have occurred in the real-estate
and construction industries in 40+ years. New technologies - new
methods - new financial and tax environments.

Tsk. I'm acquainted with most of those...IN THIS AREA.
You are NOT.


I think Jim and I are acquainted with what goes on IN AMATEUR RADIO.


You have many years as a licensed radio amateur. But, you
are NOT, nor have you ever been, a PARTICIPANT in Los Angeles
Zoning Board activities, meetings, nor a PARTICIPANT in owning
real property in Los Angeles County.

By golly, I believe you're beginning to understand! You tend to what
you know. I'll tend to what I know.

Real property and Zoning ordinances are NOT, nor have they
ever been a "radio subject." End this sub-thread because
it does not apply.

It most assuredly does. The parallels are clear.

N2EY tried to magnify one of my old statements, taking it well
out of context, attempting to MANUFACTURE some personal
"defect" of mine. His product QC was terrible and the product
FAILED.

That's funny. I don't see it that way at all. You stepped on a bear
trap and it clanked shut on you. Now you're busy attempting to explain
how much you know about bear traps.

N2EY was a NON-PARTICIPANT in real estate and Zoning
in Los Angeles. In other words, he didn't know his ass from
a hole in the ground on that.

So it really is an analogy to your efforts in amateur radio regulation!

However, to charge that "I know nothing of amateur radio"
is INCORRECT, IN ERROR.

I think the ERROR has been yours. I don't think you know--how did you
put it--your ass from a hole in the ground.

One does NOT need to be a licensed
radio amateur to "know about it."

One does NOT need to be a licensed realtor to understand Los Angeles
ares real estate matters.

United States radio
amateur activity is NOT "secret."

Los Angeles real property issues are NOT "secret".

Several radio amateur
interest group organizations freely offer detailed information
on what they think US amateur radio involves.

There is all kinds of information on Los Angeles area real estate
available on the web. There are additional sources of infomation
including libraries and even Los Angeles real estate agents.

Amateur 'radio' technology is the SAME as every other radio
technology, although lagging behind the rest of the radio
world in a few technical areas.

Los Angeles real estate isn't very different from real estate in other
parts of California or even from real estate in other large metropolitan
areas. Of course the regulations governing it could certainly lag areas
in the East.

NONE of that technology is
"secret" nor is it "revealed" to someone just receiving a
federal license permitting the RF energy emission according
to government regulations. Those government regulations are
open to all, not secret, and are freely available over the
US Government Printing Office website.

Funny that you'd mention that. I understand that information on Los
Angeles area real estate material isn't secret either. It is available
not only on the internet, but in printed form from a wide variety of
sources.

Anyone with a receiver can hear for themselves what radio
amateurs DO "on the air."

Anyone who buys an L.A. newspaper can get an idea of what is happening
in Los Angeles real estate.


US government (FCC) regulations
forbid the use of encryption (for deliberate obfuscation
of information transmitted) in amateur radio transmissions.

There's one of your masterful restatements of the obvious, Len.

There is NO RESTRICTION on personal communications off-air
by any citizen with another citizen who is a licensed
radio amateur.

....and yet another masterful restatement!

I have several friends of long-standing
who are licensed radio amateurs, one of them going back
to US Army service days.

That's so nice that they've included you in their social plans, Len.

The FCC does not restrict ANYONE from communicating with
the FCC on ANY RADIO SERVICE or any other interstate
communications service they regulate. They are required
BY LAW to be open to communications from ALL CITIZENS.

You've commented a number of times. Happy now?

By personal experience, I have been involved in HF radio
transmission beginning 53 years ago and have been granted
a Commercial radio operator license in 1956.

Careful, Len. You can get your butt in a sling if you try using that on
the ham bands. It isn't any good there.

I AM
experienced in radio communications from VLF on up to
25 GHz.

That's nice, Len.

US radio amateurs are NOT allocated any bands
below 160m...

....not at the moment, but there's work being done on that. Some
Europeans have access right now.


...and the allocated emission types are limited
(again BY LAW), such limitations lesser than my hands-on
experiences.

Well... Aren't you SPECIAL!

I have written for, been published, even
employed as an editor for an amateur radio magazine, an
independent that existed for 22 years.

I know it well. I have almost the entire run, yellowed with age.
It's too bad you couldn't parlay all that experience into a ham ticket.


You are NOT.


You are hopelessly stuck in a personal attack mode and
will not leave it.

Again, Len, you get what you dish out. Live with it.

To reiterate: YOU are NOT INVOLVED in Los Angeles real
estate nor the Zoning laws of this city.

To restate: You are NOT INVOLVED in amateur radio in the United States
or elsewhere.

Further, YOU
know bupkis about that as it applies here.

Ditto, you about amateur radio.

It is NOT
a subject for this newsgroup, not even close to that.

On the contrary, the parallels are striking!

Your only effort in this thread is to attempt some
personal denigration of myself.

....and to watch was you stand in the jaws of the bear trap, explaining
all you know about bear traps.

That wastes time for
others, does little except making you look the asshole,
and is a FAILURE.

Others aren't required to read or respond. It has worked well and it
reveals a horse's patoot with one leg clamped in a bear trap.


Dave

Dave Heil wrote:

As I told you earlier, you get what you dish out. You'd no sooner blown
back into this newsgroup when you started with the cutesy names. Brian
is guilty of the same technique. As for Mark, his posting record speaks
for itself. He *is* the group Myna bird.

Who is "Brian?"

You NEVER seem to have a problem with Robesin's use of "Brain." Ever.

But here you are complaining about other people again.

wrote:

the problem is that they (the ProCoders) have been nasty over the years
they fear the mode will die off if they don't code welfare program of
code testing

Would it be too much trouble to ask you to re-phrase that in
English?

Steve, K4YZ