Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Frackelton Gleason, still posing as 'Eduardo', the Hispanic persona he
dreamed up in the year 2000, wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 3, 8:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message

ps.com...

On Sep 3, 8:07 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
the real
issue here.

There are currently more AM listeners under 50 than over 50. That is
per
Arbitron. The issue is that only 20% of all radio listening is to AM,
because in the rated markets there are so few good AM facilities that
can
compete. The ones that can, get great ratings and huge billing.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Only 20%. Good grief. You're in more trouble than I thought.

The people in trouble are those with AMs with bad signals. Since we only
have about a dozen AMs (including 7 with 50 kw) they are not a major part
of
the business. Our FMs do just fine, too.

Yes but when you're part of an entire industry in decline, it's going
to catch up with you sooner or later. Maybe you should post your
resume on hotjobs or something.


The radio industry is in slow growth, not decline. 2006 ended higher than
any year in the past, and since 1950, radio has grown every year but tow
(2001 and a recession year in the 70's) and you can find a chart of this at
the RAB website.

Certain sectors of radio have sustained double digit growth for the last 20
or so years, and I am in one of those sectors; we were up 12% in revenue in
Q2 of 2007 when the rest of the industry was down about 2%.

I am not going to be spending much time on a resume, methinks.

How could you, when shilling occupies so much of your time, oh fake one?

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 3, 8:19 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Sep 3, 8:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Sep 3, 8:07 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
the real
issue here.

There are currently more AM listeners under 50 than over 50. That is
per
Arbitron. The issue is that only 20% of all radio listening is to AM,
because in the rated markets there are so few good AM facilities that
can
compete. The ones that can, get great ratings and huge billing.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Only 20%. Good grief. You're in more trouble than I thought.

The people in trouble are those with AMs with bad signals. Since we only
have about a dozen AMs (including 7 with 50 kw) they are not a major part
of
the business. Our FMs do just fine, too.

Yes but when you're part of an entire industry in decline, it's going
to catch up with you sooner or later. Maybe you should post your
resume on hotjobs or something.

The radio industry is in slow growth, not decline. 2006 ended higher than
any year in the past, and since 1950, radio has grown every year but tow
(2001 and a recession year in the 70's) and you can find a chart of this at
the RAB website.

Certain sectors of radio have sustained double digit growth for the last 20
or so years, and I am in one of those sectors; we were up 12% in revenue in
Q2 of 2007 when the rest of the industry was down about 2%.

I am not going to be spending much time on a resume, methinks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Slow growth is just as good as decline if it's slow enough.

You think that AM as it currently exists faces no serious challenges.
Well, the facts will teach you otherwise.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 3, 3:57 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message
So solly cholly, I'm receiving Social Security, not welfare. I also
receive my
pension from the Union, and next year I'll get my pension from the
Company. I also
have about $180,000 invested that I can tap into as well.

In other words, you have no job. That means you are not employed.
Steve-the-toe-tapper-in-the-men's-room is trying to obfuscate. (And
Larry Craig rejected him with a "QLF?") If the payments from the
Social Security Administrtaion are for disability, and not a pension,
they are welfare. In fact, anything he receives from SSA above and
beyond what he paid in (plus interest) is welfare. If he were an
honest conservative, he would recognize that.

He may not be collecting unemployment benefits because, to collect,
you have to be able to demonstrate that you are willing and able to
contribute to society.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

" wrote:

On Sep 3, 3:57 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message
So solly cholly, I'm receiving Social Security, not welfare. I also
receive my
pension from the Union, and next year I'll get my pension from the
Company. I also
have about $180,000 invested that I can tap into as well.

In other words, you have no job. That means you are not employed.
Steve-the-toe-tapper-in-the-men's-room is trying to obfuscate.

So solly cholly, I don't tap.

(And
Larry Craig rejected him with a "QLF?") If the payments from the
Social Security Administrtaion are for disability, and not a pension,
they are welfare.

No, they are not.

In fact, anything he receives from SSA above and
beyond what he paid in (plus interest) is welfare.

If he were an
honest conservative, he would recognize that.

I recognize that I'm receiving the benefits I paid for!

He may not be collecting unemployment benefits because, to collect,
you have to be able to demonstrate that you are willing and able to
contribute to society.

My unemployment benefits expired a long time ago!

You really need to get a clue.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

" wrote:

On Sep 3, 3:57 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message
So solly cholly, I'm receiving Social Security, not welfare. I also
receive my
pension from the Union, and next year I'll get my pension from the
Company. I also
have about $180,000 invested that I can tap into as well.

In other words, you have no job. That means you are not employed.
Steve-the-toe-tapper-in-the-men's-room is trying to obfuscate. (And
Larry Craig rejected him with a "QLF?") If the payments from the
Social Security Administrtaion are for disability, and not a pension,
they are welfare. In fact, anything he receives from SSA above and
beyond what he paid in (plus interest) is welfare.

SSA doesn't pay interest, 'tard boy.

Best you ask mommy for a clue come Christmas!

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
.
..
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"IBOCcrock" wrote in message
oups.com...

The digital signals are only 1% of the analog - IBOC's
coverage isn't even 50% that of analogs !


Digital has totally different properties than analog. I have
seen plenty of data showing the HD signal, on a 3rd generation
receiver, is robust beyond the "usable" signal range of analog
AM or FM, which is the 10 mv/m AM curve and the 64 dbu FM
contour.

Gee, to bad you don't understand what that means.

I understand perfectly. I did one of the first studies of
listenership vs. signal strength over a decade ago.

I'm pretty sure reading your posts you have no understanding volts
per meter means. I don't think you know what dBu is either.


As stated previously, I actually built the first FM station in
Ecuador from scratch, including transmitter, studio gear and antenna.
I certainly know what the terms of field strength mean. I think
anyone who can build an FM exciter from scratch probably can
understand voltages pretty well.

I have also lugged field strength meters around various FCC
jurisdictions while working on directional antenna patterns ranging
from WEEL to WQII to KTNQ.

I didn't ask you about your fake imagined history that you shoe horn in
at every opportunity.

The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m. For AM in metros, it is about 10 mv/m.
Both AM and FM are measurements of the strength of the EMF from a
transmitter at some point of distance from it dBu used to be called
dBv but got confused with dBV, and was changed. It's a decibel
measurement of voltage.... as my equivalency shows.

dBuV is not the same thing as dBV. Care to try again.

While you are at it explain how 1.5 mV/m equates to either 64dBuV or
64dBV.

You mentioned these voltage numbers are in decibels so does that
mean a change from 32 to 64 is twice as much?

And just what does 1.5mV/m mean anyway to a person reading this post?

The whole point here is that the average listener... about 96% to 97%
of them, in fact, will not listen to a signal below a certain level
and all but three to four percent of stationary AM and FM listening
in rated metros comes from areas within the 10 vv/m and 64 dbu
contours of AM and FM stations.

My radio needs 10V/m to receive a station decently? My God no wonder you
didn't believe my posts on the signal strength of local stations. I'm
glad we finally figured that out.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 3, 12:44 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message

ps.com...



Sounds like you've finally matured a bit and now see the merits of FM
and the folly of HD-AM. Congratulations.
Quite the contrary. It has been known by broadcasters for some time that
there is no way to get any significant number of listeners under 55 to
tune
to AM, and the average age of AM listeners is increasing each year as a
consequence.
Quite the contrary? What is contrary to what? You seem to be replying
to someone else's post.


"Quite the contrary" to what you said my thought process is.

I now see HD as perhaps the _only_ hope for AM radio to survive.





I think that is a false hope.

A lot of the examples, here have been about AM sound quality. That
under 55 demos will not make the attempt, due to bad sound quality. That
the move to FM boosts prime demo performance without change of
programming. The move to FM alone is all that matters. And that appears
to be true. But the reasons given are always involve sound quality, when
it's been demostrated for decades, that content, not sound quality drive
listening. You've quoted them, yourself. But this is now the decisive
factor when a move to FM boosts younger demos.

There is another factor that's not been mentioned, that will far
outweigh sound quality as the razor between AM and FM listening.

Consider that when WNIB was on the air, it was playing classical
music against WFMT, also playing classical music. It was widely
recognized, acknowledged and even discussed that WFMT had superior sound
quality to WNIB. And expecially to WNIZ, in Zion, simulcasting WNIB off
an NAD tuner at 96.9. (WNIB was at 97.1)

WNIB routinely beat WFMT in the ratings. Widely acknowledged poorer
audio. Same format. So....what was the difference? The content. WNIB
played 'the hits.' WFMT played much deeper longhair. The playlists
overlapped considerably. But WNIB, with poorer audio quality, beat WFMT
in listenership. And in listener loyalty.

Content drives listening. You've said it yourself.

So, the ratings boost after moving an AM to FM may have less to do
with audio quality than it does with a much more important factor....the
cache associated with FM.

Even as far back in my high school days, AM stations were struggling
against FM penetration. Not once did I hear 'audio quality' spoken of
when I heard someone discussing FM superiority. But I did hear, 'You
still listen to AM? OK, Grandpa. Stay in the 30's;' and many other
derisive comments about the fact that FM was now, AM was your father's
radio station. Listening to AM for whatever reason, meant you were out
of touch. Even though KMOX still dominated the market, and KXOK was the
St Louis music station. WLS had a 20 share and WGN was coming on. But
the talk was of The Loop. And ABC's FM du jour. The era of FM
penetration was on...driven as much by the hipness of a 'new' fad as it
was by the quality of a new technology.

Now, everyone knows now, as they did then, that FM has more
compelling sound than AM. And the conventional wisdom holds that AM has
never, could never, and can never sound as good. Or be as listenable.
Even though in it's native, unprocessed form, AM can be quieter and
cleaner than FM. And some of us fossillized curmudgeons know it. More
than you will ever realize. Or admit.

But AM is yesterday's news. AM is a Packard. AM is a Zenith console.
AM is simply not intrinsically hip enough to face the competition and
reclaim it's crown. Not incapable of performance. Just not possessed of
the cache other alternatives are revelling in.

And then, AM has Rush. Granted he's not Howard Stern. Not quite the
youth appeal of an iPod full of Rilo Kiley and Plain White T's. But
there is listening. And it IS broader than typical local AM. Which
indicates content does matter. And it DOES make a difference.

So, while FM has come to dominate listening in so many areas,
through, yes, audio quality...Stereo... (though Dolby FM and Quad were
busts--what does THAT tell you?) what's keeping listeners away from AM
is the fact that it's not hip. It's not happ'nin'. For two generations,
now, FM has had the cache while AM radios have gotted horrible. The
younger demos haven't even given AM a real sampling. Because everyone
THEY know...only listens to FM. And that's where they do their
listening. Old habits, and all that.

David, they're not listening to AM because it's AM. They haven't
even GOTTEN to the sound quality, yet.

In that context, OF COURSE moving AM to FM is going to make a
difference in the demo spread. The younger demos are discovering the
content where they listen. Some, for the first time. And some are going
to stay. But going digital on AM....won't make the difference.
Especially when the interstation noise is so dramatically much louder
than that on FM. And so much of the band is trashed with hash.

HD Radio isn't going to change AM's perception, nor is it going to
flag FM's cache. Because you're not going to get younger demos to sample
AM. Not even give it a serious attempt. Audio quality alone cannot make
any difference. Because that's not what drives listening. They may hear
AM HD and think it's ok. But that's not where they listen. And, absent
any compelling change in content to get them to sample something new,
they're not going to try. All you're doing is trashing the band. And
hastening what you believe is inevitable. While blaming AM technology
for being substandard.

AM stereo went nowhere. There's a reason for that. Several,
actually. Dolby FM went nowhere. There's a reason for that. Quad and
FMX went nowhere. There are all improvements in audio quality...well,
FMX wasn't really, but go with me, here...if audio quality really
mattered, we wouldn't be able to count the number of DOLBY FM, Quad
stations with FMX. And you'd have to have a second car, just to contain
all the sound. But we don't. The public didn't see the value in each of
these technologies, because audio quality doesn't drive listening.
(KMOX-FM even had a Sunday afternoon Quad program that got fewer
listeners than police radios.) Content matters. Get that wrong, and
you've got a pig in a party dress. As cute as she may be, she's still a
pig. You won't get anyone to get close enough to dance with her. They
won't even GET to the smell.

And if you really want a pointed nail, here...2/3's of all FM
listening is done in mono. Even among listeners to FM stereo stations on
FM stereo receivers. Because of the blend circuit that engages out of
prime signal conditions (not just level within the prime contour, but
actual conditions of reception). 2/3 of all FM listening is in mono. You
don't hear anyone bitching.

Try this once. Take one of your FM's mono. But leave the pilot on.
Write down the names of everyone who complains. If you fill a Post-it,
I'll buy you dinner at the 95th. You and a guest.

Try it. I dare you.

Why? Because audio quality doesn't drive listening.


The reason AM isn't being listened to by the younger demos isn't
really about audio...it's about the fact that its AM.

HD Radio will not change that.

As the dismal monthly reports about the adoption of HD demonstrate.



Let me know when you're coming for dinner.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Eduardo wrote:


You do know, I hope, that during the entire period
that data was available, from the mid-50's to the mid-90's, half of all US
radio stations did not make money?


And with a total revenue share of 100 in any market, that isn't going
to change. Consolidation can move that red line a few positions
deeper, but all the technology in the world, all the cost cutting in the
world, will not change the fact that there is only a 100 revenue share
in any market, and not all stations can survive.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...
"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
Whatever. It's an aging audience nonetheless, and getting older with
every tick of the clock. You must modernize or you will soon be
extinct.

You know what it would take to make terrestrial commercial radio extinct?
If XM and Sirius both had a non-pay basic tier that was commercially
funded, that would pretty much do it. Nearly universal coverage, and now
they have walkman-sized personal portables.

Those portables only work well in areas with terrestrial repeaters. They
suck elsewhere. I bought one to travel with, and in 9 place out of 10, the
signal is not listenable. And it cost $300.




That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
..
.
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message

t.
..
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"IBOCcrock" wrote in message
oups.com...

The digital signals are only 1% of the analog - IBOC's
coverage isn't even 50% that of analogs !


Digital has totally different properties than analog. I have
seen plenty of data showing the HD signal, on a 3rd generation
receiver, is robust beyond the "usable" signal range of analog
AM or FM, which is the 10 mv/m AM curve and the 64 dbu FM
contour.

Gee, to bad you don't understand what that means.

I understand perfectly. I did one of the first studies of
listenership vs. signal strength over a decade ago.

I'm pretty sure reading your posts you have no understanding volts
per meter means. I don't think you know what dBu is either.


As stated previously, I actually built the first FM station in
Ecuador from scratch, including transmitter, studio gear and antenna.
I certainly know what the terms of field strength mean. I think
anyone who can build an FM exciter from scratch probably can
understand voltages pretty well.

I have also lugged field strength meters around various FCC
jurisdictions while working on directional antenna patterns ranging
from WEEL to WQII to KTNQ.

I didn't ask you about your fake imagined history that you shoe horn in
at every opportunity.

The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m. For AM in metros, it is about 10 mv/m.
Both AM and FM are measurements of the strength of the EMF from a
transmitter at some point of distance from it dBu used to be called
dBv but got confused with dBV, and was changed. It's a decibel
measurement of voltage.... as my equivalency shows.

dBuV is not the same thing as dBV. Care to try again.

While you are at it explain how 1.5 mV/m equates to either 64dBuV or
64dBV.

You mentioned these voltage numbers are in decibels so does that
mean a change from 32 to 64 is twice as much?

And just what does 1.5mV/m mean anyway to a person reading this post?

The whole point here is that the average listener... about 96% to 97%
of them, in fact, will not listen to a signal below a certain level
and all but three to four percent of stationary AM and FM listening
in rated metros comes from areas within the 10 vv/m and 64 dbu
contours of AM and FM stations.

My radio needs 10V/m to receive a station decently? My God no wonder you
didn't believe my posts on the signal strength of local stations. I'm
glad we finally figured that out.

The master of BS must have stopped to eat dinner after 56 posts today.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

I didn't ask you about your fake imagined history that you shoe horn in
at every opportunity.

Call Bob DuTriel, the associate of Ron Rackley (the formost authority on
directional AM antennas in the US) in Florida and ask about me. I assisted
Bob while he rebuilt the WQII directional when I decided to reengineer the
station.

The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m. For AM in metros, it is about 10 mv/m.
Both AM and FM are measurements of the strength of the EMF from a
transmitter at some point of distance from it dBu used to be called
dBv but got confused with dBV, and was changed. It's a decibel
measurement of voltage.... as my equivalency shows.

dBuV is not the same thing as dBV. Care to try again.

I said that, historically, the tem was changed from dBv to dBu because folks
were confusing dBv and dBV... that was the origin of the "u" in dBu... which
bagan with a lower case "v."

While you are at it explain how 1.5 mV/m equates to either 64dBuV or
64dBV.

Equivalent field strength expressed in with a different scale. Even my
speedometer has two different scales, and they have equivalents all the way
along, just as a metric tape and a yardstick do.

My radio needs 10V/m to receive a station decently? My God no wonder you
didn't believe my posts on the signal strength of local stations. I'm
glad we finally figured that out.

I don't care what your $5 thousand dollar radio needs.

The fact is that after examining thousands and thousands of diary mentions
for at home and at work by ZIP code, it has been found in several different
studies that 80% of all FM listening takes place in the 70 dBu contour and
15% to 17% more takes place between the 70 and the 64 dBu contours. There is
nearly no listening outside the 64 dBu contour. So, most of us actually
running radio stations or involved in programming know that there is pretty
much no potential for listener growth outside the 64 dBu contour as it is
apparent from empirical evidence across a variety of markets and ratings
periods that listeners do not listen to relatively weak signals.

The same studies, on AM, showed that in and in the environs of the Top 100
metros, there is pretty much no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. This
corresponds with more anecdotal evidence that shows that below 10 mv/m the
signals are so subject to man-made interference from everything from
computers to traffic light controllers that they are annoying to listen to.
In some metros the minimum level seems to match neatly the 15 mv/m contour
or points in between, probably indicating greater noise levels in the market
in general.

Again, it is not about whether a station can be received. It is about
whether listeners, in any significant quantity, are able to enjoyably listen
to a station. And it has been proven that a pretty intense signal is
necessary for a station to get audience in the rated metro areas (where
about 75% of the US population lives)

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Bart Bailey" wrote in message
...
In posted on
Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:25:13 -0700, David Eduardo wrote: Begin

You don't understand the purpose of ratings. It is to sell advertising by
providing a metric. Radio or TV provide ratings, newspapers and magazines
provide audited circulation. This data is given to advertisers to
facilitate
the evaluation of the media.

The very data accumulated by organizations subsidized by those with a
vested interest in certain results, you even admitted as much without
realizing that your emperor is buck nekid.

And, as I said before, the data, the methodology and the tabulations are
audited each year by a team of researchers named by the Media Research
Council, formed by the advertisers and agencies that use media research such
as Nielsen and Arbitron.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...

That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.



Glendale, CA, in hilly area... no signal at all.. La Quinta, CA to Palm
Desert (my bicycle route) spotty signal, dropouts at least twice in any 5
minute time in motion. Prescott, AZ, no signal at all in area I live. Waste
of $300-.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Bart Bailey" wrote in message
...

I had a DJ friend at an AOR station in Nashville back in the 70s when it
tried Dolby tell me that only the deep fringe listeners could benefit
from that and besides not being in the SMSA most of those hicks didn't
have the gear for it.


What is an SMSA? Arbitron only has TSA and MSA.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 3, 10:43 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:

They even suck when they're close to 50kw stations unless you're
interested colloidal silver,"The Amazing HGH" or the advantages of
investing in gold.



This evening, I locked on KNX in HD around Rialto on the 210 fwy, and
carried it to near Dodger Stadium without a dropout. Rialto has something
like a 3 mv/m signal for kNX whose 5 mv/m ends just a tad to the east of
Pomona and before Ontario.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Actually, I have the real ratings data and you do not.

Snip

What you have is your overactive imagination not facts.

I am going to keep you busy finding out how wrong you are. Call Owen
Charlebois, at Arbitron, and ask who I am. Owen is President, Operations and
Technology, for Arbitron. He was formerly head of the BBM in Canada.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

That would only be a couple of blocks around the 50K station antenna
with Eduardo's 10V/meter contour. Whatever that means.

You don't know what a 10 mv/m contour is?

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.



Glendale, CA, in hilly area... no signal at all.. La Quinta, CA to Palm
Desert (my bicycle route) spotty signal, dropouts at least twice in any 5
minute time in motion. Prescott, AZ, no signal at all in area I live. Waste
of $300-.



Really. I"m not familiar with Ca reception, but I have a colleague in
Prescott who listens to the same XM channels I do, on the same radio, a
first generation MyFi.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m.

You guys throw a lot of listnership away if you're requiring 1.5mV/m.. since
even cheap POS radios have FM sensitivity down in the low hundreds of
microvolts, and good ones (home and car stereos) are good down to 5-15
microvolts.. you're almost a full order of magnitude higher than the average
car stereo... (order of magnitude = 1x10E3)

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.



Glendale, CA, in hilly area... no signal at all.. La Quinta, CA to Palm
Desert (my bicycle route) spotty signal, dropouts at least twice in any 5
minute time in motion. Prescott, AZ, no signal at all in area I live.
Waste of $300-.

Really. I"m not familiar with Ca reception, but I have a colleague in
Prescott who listens to the same XM channels I do, on the same radio, a
first generation MyFi.


I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa area
of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at this
point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and can't
really see the satellites.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.



Glendale, CA, in hilly area... no signal at all.. La Quinta, CA to Palm
Desert (my bicycle route) spotty signal, dropouts at least twice in any 5
minute time in motion. Prescott, AZ, no signal at all in area I live.
Waste of $300-.

Really. I"m not familiar with Ca reception, but I have a colleague in
Prescott who listens to the same XM channels I do, on the same radio, a
first generation MyFi.

Don't bother him with facts. Only 50,000 watt stations can be heard within a
10mV/m contour. The rest may as well shut down and let the big boys splatter
the band with their noisy IBOC subcarriers. Corporate media will only be
happy when they have complete and total control over everything we see, hear
and think. They already tell us what kind of music and entertainment we
like, and what we will use to access it.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m.

You guys throw a lot of listnership away if you're requiring 1.5mV/m..
since even cheap POS radios have FM sensitivity down in the low hundreds
of microvolts, and good ones (home and car stereos) are good down to 5-15
microvolts.. you're almost a full order of magnitude higher than the
average car stereo... (order of magnitude = 1x10E3)

We are talking exclusively of home and workplace reception, as there is no
way to track the ZIP of in-car listening. Since in home and at work account
for 70% of all listening, this is more than adequate for study.

Listeners, not stations, make the decision of what stations they will listen
to. And listeners do not listen to signals weaker than 64 dbu in 96% to 97%
of the time spent listening to radio. In other words, if the signal is not
above a certain strength, listeners.... whether in Miami, LA, McAllen or New
York, to name a few... do not use them.

Stations are not "throwing away a lot of listenership" because listeners do
not like weak signals and won't listen to them.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.


Glendale, CA, in hilly area... no signal at all.. La Quinta, CA to Palm
Desert (my bicycle route) spotty signal, dropouts at least twice in any 5
minute time in motion. Prescott, AZ, no signal at all in area I live.
Waste of $300-.
Really. I"m not familiar with Ca reception, but I have a colleague in
Prescott who listens to the same XM channels I do, on the same radio, a
first generation MyFi.


I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa area
of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at this
point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and can't
really see the satellites.



Well, that simply isn't true. Now, they do often need an external
antenna...the built-in can be pretty limited. But if you go into the
menu you can find the antenna aiming page...it will tell you if you're
listening to a repeater or a satellite. I get direct satellite reception
all over the backwater and backwoods locations I travel. And my
colleagues do the same.

I even get reception, indoors, on a MyFi in White Lake, Wisconsin.
Where the nearest repeater is more than 5 hours away.

Sounds like either you got a bad receiver, or you got a bad external
antenna. That does happen. I had a bad portable antenna out of the box.
Once replaced...never a problem. I can mow the lawn listening to Fine
Tuning, without so much as a glitch in the North Woods of Wisconsin.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...

I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa
area of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at
this point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and
can't really see the satellites.

Well, that simply isn't true. Now, they do often need an external
antenna...the built-in can be pretty limited. But if you go into the menu
you can find the antenna aiming page...it will tell you if you're
listening to a repeater or a satellite. I get direct satellite reception
all over the backwater and backwoods locations I travel. And my colleagues
do the same.

The Eno is market to be worn on a wristband, and is positioned as not
needing an antena. I tried an antena that had a wire up the sleve and
clipped to my helmet, and it helped only slightly... the listening was
frequenly plagued by dropouts.

I even get reception, indoors, on a MyFi in White Lake, Wisconsin. Where
the nearest repeater is more than 5 hours away.

In LA, away from mountains, it worked. Of course, this is where there are
several dozen terrestrial repeaters.

Sounds like either you got a bad receiver, or you got a bad external
antenna. That does happen. I had a bad portable antenna out of the box.
Once replaced...never a problem. I can mow the lawn listening to Fine
Tuning, without so much as a glitch in the North Woods of Wisconsin.

Considering the radio is sold as a wrist or belt strap one, for jogging,
biking or such, not much of an exterior antenna is possible... the radio is
the size of an iPod.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa
area of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at
this point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and
can't really see the satellites.
Well, that simply isn't true. Now, they do often need an external
antenna...the built-in can be pretty limited. But if you go into the menu
you can find the antenna aiming page...it will tell you if you're
listening to a repeater or a satellite. I get direct satellite reception
all over the backwater and backwoods locations I travel. And my colleagues
do the same.

The Eno is market to be worn on a wristband, and is positioned as not
needing an antena. I tried an antena that had a wire up the sleve and
clipped to my helmet, and it helped only slightly... the listening was
frequenly plagued by dropouts.
I even get reception, indoors, on a MyFi in White Lake, Wisconsin. Where
the nearest repeater is more than 5 hours away.

In LA, away from mountains, it worked. Of course, this is where there are
several dozen terrestrial repeaters.
Sounds like either you got a bad receiver, or you got a bad external
antenna. That does happen. I had a bad portable antenna out of the box.
Once replaced...never a problem. I can mow the lawn listening to Fine
Tuning, without so much as a glitch in the North Woods of Wisconsin.

Considering the radio is sold as a wrist or belt strap one, for jogging,
biking or such, not much of an exterior antenna is possible... the radio is
the size of an iPod.



I'd verify performance with another radio. Sounds like you have a dud.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote:


You know what it would take to make terrestrial commercial radio extinct?
If XM and Sirius both had a non-pay basic tier that was commercially funded,
that would pretty much do it. Nearly universal coverage, and now they have
walkman-sized personal portables.



That would require 'em to think in terms of long-term gain over
short-term profitability. For that reason, I can't see it happening.

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

Steve wrote:


Yes but when you're part of an entire industry in decline, it's going
to catch up with you sooner or later. Maybe you should post your
resume on hotjobs or something.

The sad fact is that by the time the whole thing comes crashing down,
he will have retired with his pot of money and no one outside the
industry will know his name. It's the "I've Got Mine" syndrome.

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 12:52 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...





David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
That sounds like the one I bought. It goes with me everywhere. And I
rarely have a signal outage....except for under bridges in rural areas.

Everywhere I go, I can listen to what I enjoy via satellite.

Glendale, CA, in hilly area... no signal at all.. La Quinta, CA to Palm
Desert (my bicycle route) spotty signal, dropouts at least twice in any 5
minute time in motion. Prescott, AZ, no signal at all in area I live.
Waste of $300-.

Really. I"m not familiar with Ca reception, but I have a colleague in
Prescott who listens to the same XM channels I do, on the same radio, a
first generation MyFi.

Don't bother him with facts. Only 50,000 watt stations can be heard within a
10mV/m contour. The rest may as well shut down and let the big boys splatter
the band with their noisy IBOC subcarriers. Corporate media will only be
happy when they have complete and total control over everything we see, hear
and think. They already tell us what kind of music and entertainment we
like, and what we will use to access it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I read on hte Web that the FCC hates broadcast radio and that they may
have let IBOC loose so that it would destroy the broadcast bands, so
that they could auction off the bands off at a later date.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 1:49 am, Eric F. Richards wrote:
Steve wrote:

Yes but when you're part of an entire industry in decline, it's going
to catch up with you sooner or later. Maybe you should post your
resume on hotjobs or something.

The sad fact is that by the time the whole thing comes crashing down,
he will have retired with his pot of money and no one outside the
industry will know his name. It's the "I've Got Mine" syndrome.

--
Eric F. Richards

"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- Myron Glass,
often attributed to J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

True - just as with iBiquity, this HD Radio scam will make a few very
rich, then the whole thing will come crashing down, but they will be
gone including that jackal Bobby Struble.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

David "Yes, I pose as 'Eduardo'", wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Actually, I have the real ratings data and you do not.

Snip

What you have is your overactive imagination not facts.

I am going to keep you busy finding out how wrong you are. Call Owen
Charlebois, at Arbitron, and ask who I am. Owen is President, Operations and
Technology, for Arbitron. He was formerly head of the BBM in Canada.

I've found, when talking to various folks, that when your name is mentioned, it
only elicits howls of laughter.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

dxAce wrote:

David "Yes, I pose as 'Eduardo'", wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Actually, I have the real ratings data and you do not.

Snip

What you have is your overactive imagination not facts.

I am going to keep you busy finding out how wrong you are. Call Owen
Charlebois, at Arbitron, and ask who I am. Owen is President, Operations and
Technology, for Arbitron. He was formerly head of the BBM in Canada.

I've found, when talking to various folks, that when your name is mentioned, it
only elicits howls of laughter.

Often followed by the words: "fruit cake".

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 12:18 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...



I didn't ask you about your fake imagined history that you shoe horn in
at every opportunity.

Call Bob DuTriel, the associate of Ron Rackley (the formost authority on
directional AM antennas in the US) in Florida and ask about me. I assisted
Bob while he rebuilt the WQII directional when I decided to reengineer the
station.



The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m. For AM in metros, it is about 10 mv/m.
Both AM and FM are measurements of the strength of the EMF from a
transmitter at some point of distance from it dBu used to be called
dBv but got confused with dBV, and was changed. It's a decibel
measurement of voltage.... as my equivalency shows.

dBuV is not the same thing as dBV. Care to try again.

I said that, historically, the tem was changed from dBv to dBu because folks
were confusing dBv and dBV... that was the origin of the "u" in dBu... which
bagan with a lower case "v."



While you are at it explain how 1.5 mV/m equates to either 64dBuV or
64dBV.

Equivalent field strength expressed in with a different scale. Even my
speedometer has two different scales, and they have equivalents all the way
along, just as a metric tape and a yardstick do.



My radio needs 10V/m to receive a station decently? My God no wonder you
didn't believe my posts on the signal strength of local stations. I'm
glad we finally figured that out.

I don't care what your $5 thousand dollar radio needs.

The fact is that after examining thousands and thousands of diary mentions
for at home and at work by ZIP code, it has been found in several different
studies that 80% of all FM listening takes place in the 70 dBu contour and
15% to 17% more takes place between the 70 and the 64 dBu contours. There is
nearly no listening outside the 64 dBu contour. So, most of us actually
running radio stations or involved in programming know that there is pretty
much no potential for listener growth outside the 64 dBu contour as it is
apparent from empirical evidence across a variety of markets and ratings
periods that listeners do not listen to relatively weak signals.

The same studies, on AM, showed that in and in the environs of the Top 100
metros, there is pretty much no listening outside the 10 mv/m contour. This
corresponds with more anecdotal evidence that shows that below 10 mv/m the
signals are so subject to man-made interference from everything from
computers to traffic light controllers that they are annoying to listen to.
In some metros the minimum level seems to match neatly the 15 mv/m contour
or points in between, probably indicating greater noise levels in the market
in general.

Again, it is not about whether a station can be received. It is about
whether listeners, in any significant quantity, are able to enjoyably listen
to a station. And it has been proven that a pretty intense signal is
necessary for a station to get audience in the rated metro areas (where
about 75% of the US population lives)

Your listeners are dying. You had better modernize.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 12:20 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Bart Bailey" wrote in message

...

In posted on
Mon, 3 Sep 2007 12:25:13 -0700, David Eduardo wrote: Begin

You don't understand the purpose of ratings. It is to sell advertising by
providing a metric. Radio or TV provide ratings, newspapers and magazines
provide audited circulation. This data is given to advertisers to
facilitate
the evaluation of the media.

The very data accumulated by organizations subsidized by those with a
vested interest in certain results, you even admitted as much without
realizing that your emperor is buck nekid.

And, as I said before, the data, the methodology and the tabulations are
audited each year by a team of researchers named by the Media Research
Council, formed by the advertisers and agencies that use media research such
as Nielsen and Arbitron.

AM cannot continue as it has in the past. You had better face the
facts.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 12:26 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message

ps.com...

On Sep 3, 10:43 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:

They even suck when they're close to 50kw stations unless you're
interested colloidal silver,"The Amazing HGH" or the advantages of
investing in gold.

This evening, I locked on KNX in HD around Rialto on the 210 fwy, and
carried it to near Dodger Stadium without a dropout. Rialto has something
like a 3 mv/m signal for kNX whose 5 mv/m ends just a tad to the east of
Pomona and before Ontario.

That's funny because I was unable to pick up KNX a mere three blocks
away.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 12:30 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...



Actually, I have the real ratings data and you do not.

Snip

What you have is your overactive imagination not facts.

I am going to keep you busy finding out how wrong you are. Call Owen
Charlebois, at Arbitron, and ask who I am. Owen is President, Operations and
Technology, for Arbitron. He was formerly head of the BBM in Canada.

AM radio cannot go on as it has in the past. Did you know that, when
an AM station goes to FM, its number typically rise dramatically? Are
you aware of this? You had better do something and fast.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 12:59 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...



"David Eduardo" wrote in message
.. .
The minimum contour for FM stations to get significant listening is
the 64 dbu, roughly 1.5 mv/m.

You guys throw a lot of listnership away if you're requiring 1.5mV/m..
since even cheap POS radios have FM sensitivity down in the low hundreds
of microvolts, and good ones (home and car stereos) are good down to 5-15
microvolts.. you're almost a full order of magnitude higher than the
average car stereo... (order of magnitude = 1x10E3)

We are talking exclusively of home and workplace reception, as there is no
way to track the ZIP of in-car listening. Since in home and at work account
for 70% of all listening, this is more than adequate for study.

Listeners, not stations, make the decision of what stations they will listen
to. And listeners do not listen to signals weaker than 64 dbu in 96% to 97%
of the time spent listening to radio. In other words, if the signal is not
above a certain strength, listeners.... whether in Miami, LA, McAllen or New
York, to name a few... do not use them.

Stations are not "throwing away a lot of listenership" because listeners do
not like weak signals and won't listen to them.

AM radio cannot go on as it has in the past. Did you know that, when
an AM station goes to FM, its number typically rise dramatically? Are
you aware of this? It's time to stop twiddling your thumbs.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 1:14 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...



I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa
area of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at
this point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and
can't really see the satellites.

Well, that simply isn't true. Now, they do often need an external
antenna...the built-in can be pretty limited. But if you go into the menu
you can find the antenna aiming page...it will tell you if you're
listening to a repeater or a satellite. I get direct satellite reception
all over the backwater and backwoods locations I travel. And my colleagues
do the same.

The Eno is market to be worn on a wristband, and is positioned as not
needing an antena. I tried an antena that had a wire up the sleve and
clipped to my helmet, and it helped only slightly... the listening was
frequenly plagued by dropouts.



I even get reception, indoors, on a MyFi in White Lake, Wisconsin. Where
the nearest repeater is more than 5 hours away.

In LA, away from mountains, it worked. Of course, this is where there are
several dozen terrestrial repeaters.



Sounds like either you got a bad receiver, or you got a bad external
antenna. That does happen. I had a bad portable antenna out of the box.
Once replaced...never a problem. I can mow the lawn listening to Fine
Tuning, without so much as a glitch in the North Woods of Wisconsin.

Considering the radio is sold as a wrist or belt strap one, for jogging,
biking or such, not much of an exterior antenna is possible... the radio is
the size of an iPod.

AM radio cannot go on as it has in the past. Did you know that, when
an AM station goes to FM, its number typically rise dramatically? Are
you aware of this? It's time to take some kind of action.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa
area of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at
this point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and
can't really see the satellites.
Well, that simply isn't true. Now, they do often need an external
antenna...the built-in can be pretty limited. But if you go into the
menu you can find the antenna aiming page...it will tell you if you're
listening to a repeater or a satellite. I get direct satellite reception
all over the backwater and backwoods locations I travel. And my
colleagues do the same.

The Eno is market to be worn on a wristband, and is positioned as not
needing an antena. I tried an antena that had a wire up the sleve and
clipped to my helmet, and it helped only slightly... the listening was
frequenly plagued by dropouts.
I even get reception, indoors, on a MyFi in White Lake, Wisconsin.
Where the nearest repeater is more than 5 hours away.

In LA, away from mountains, it worked. Of course, this is where there are
several dozen terrestrial repeaters.
Sounds like either you got a bad receiver, or you got a bad external
antenna. That does happen. I had a bad portable antenna out of the box.
Once replaced...never a problem. I can mow the lawn listening to Fine
Tuning, without so much as a glitch in the North Woods of Wisconsin.

Considering the radio is sold as a wrist or belt strap one, for jogging,
biking or such, not much of an exterior antenna is possible... the radio
is the size of an iPod.

I'd verify performance with another radio. Sounds like you have a dud.

XM pretty much confirmed when I cancelled. They even offered to give me a
different radio.and said that "some areas are not suitable for an "ultra"
portable device... they also offered a free year subscription. I got the
idea this was not a new issue with them.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

"Bart Bailey" wrote in message
...
In posted on Mon,
3 Sep 2007 21:24:21 -0700, David Eduardo wrote: Begin


"Bart Bailey" wrote in message
...

I had a DJ friend at an AOR station in Nashville back in the 70s when it
tried Dolby tell me that only the deep fringe listeners could benefit
from that and besides not being in the SMSA most of those hicks didn't
have the gear for it.


What is an SMSA? Arbitron only has TSA and MSA.


Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area
I think that's what he said it was referred to back in the 70s
had to do with the intended area of the station's coverage


Makes sense... that was the Census definition, although generally Arbitron
MSA's are not exactly the same as the census MSA or CMSA of today.

Ibiquity's "Gag Order" on engineers
 

On Sep 4, 9:01 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...





David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
I had an XM Eno (it went the way of the dumpster) and in the Hassayampa
area of Prescott, there is no signal anywhere. I am pretty convinced at
this point that the portables need to be near terrestrial repeaters and
can't really see the satellites.
Well, that simply isn't true. Now, they do often need an external
antenna...the built-in can be pretty limited. But if you go into the
menu you can find the antenna aiming page...it will tell you if you're
listening to a repeater or a satellite. I get direct satellite reception
all over the backwater and backwoods locations I travel. And my
colleagues do the same.

The Eno is market to be worn on a wristband, and is positioned as not
needing an antena. I tried an antena that had a wire up the sleve and
clipped to my helmet, and it helped only slightly... the listening was
frequenly plagued by dropouts.
I even get reception, indoors, on a MyFi in White Lake, Wisconsin.
Where the nearest repeater is more than 5 hours away.

In LA, away from mountains, it worked. Of course, this is where there are
several dozen terrestrial repeaters.
Sounds like either you got a bad receiver, or you got a bad external
antenna. That does happen. I had a bad portable antenna out of the box.
Once replaced...never a problem. I can mow the lawn listening to Fine
Tuning, without so much as a glitch in the North Woods of Wisconsin.

Considering the radio is sold as a wrist or belt strap one, for jogging,
biking or such, not much of an exterior antenna is possible... the radio
is the size of an iPod.

I'd verify performance with another radio. Sounds like you have a dud.

XM pretty much confirmed when I cancelled. They even offered to give me a
different radio.and said that "some areas are not suitable for an "ultra"
portable device... they also offered a free year subscription. I got the
idea this was not a new issue with them.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're in a pickle!