HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 29, 8:27 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message

...







David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

SFTV_troy wrote:

I don't really understand why people are upset about the loss of
DX'ing over AM (only temporarily; it will be restored when AM goes
pure digital). You can still do DX'ing via using services like
shoutcast.com. Just yesterday at work I was listening to an
Australian station. Another favorite of mine is located in England.
DX'ing is still alive and well on the internet.

Uh... that's NOT DX'ing.

It may well become the DXing of the 21st Century.

Edwina, you're an idiot.

I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough
market, you fool.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's not enough market for colloidal silver, either.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


SFTV_troy wrote:

I don't really understand why people are upset about the loss of
DX'ing over AM (only temporarily; it will be restored when AM goes
pure digital). You can still do DX'ing via using services like
shoutcast.com. Just yesterday at work I was listening to an
Australian station. Another favorite of mine is located in England.
DX'ing is still alive and well on the internet.

Uh... that's NOT DX'ing.


It may well become the DXing of the 21st Century.

Edwina, you're an idiot.

I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B?

No, but it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere down the road you try to convince
myself and others that it was indeed your idea!

Edwina, not only are you an idiot, but you're a proven pathological liar.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Brenda Ann wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message
t...
Why should formats that are not stations now be added as additional HD
channels. Where is the logic in that?
Because many formats are excluded because, with the finite number of FMs
in any market, there is not room for the second tier of formats. With HD 2
channels, there is.

Now, now, Eduardo... you know full well that the reason that a given format
is not available in a given market is because it's just not profitable to
program it. The only difference with IBOC-FM is that now they can use a
single plant to provide multiple formats.. I don't see a lot of stations
doing this, though, on a long-range model, since these formats will still
not be profitable.




Unless they are subscription based. Technology which is currently in
test.


Once that seal is broken, there will be no reason for broadcasters
to stop its spread, and given the ever widening range of options,
expanding costs, and mounting fees, royalties, and surcharges, every
reason to.

Under that scenario, anything can be made profitable.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
t...
Why should formats that are not stations now be added as additional HD
channels. Where is the logic in that?

Because many formats are excluded because, with the finite number of FMs
in any market, there is not room for the second tier of formats. With HD
2 channels, there is.

Now, now, Eduardo... you know full well that the reason that a given
format is not available in a given market is because it's just not
profitable to program it.

That is absolutely untrue.

There are many profitable formats that could be done that are not being done
because there are even more profitable formats that "use up" all the
available FM channels in the market.

Depending on the market, there are probably a dozen or so profitable,
although less so than those on the air already, formats available.

Call them what you will, they are simply formats 13 to 24 in a market with
12 or so stations.... profitable, salable, listenable. But not as profitable
as other formats, so they don't get broadcast until HD comes along.

The only difference with IBOC-FM is that now they can use a single plant
to provide multiple formats.. I don't see a lot of stations doing this,
though, on a long-range model, since these formats will still not be
profitable.

Sure they will be. Our Tejano formats on HD in 5 markets in Texas are
getting excellent response, and should be generating respectable income
soon, even without that many receivers out there. Tejano, as an example, was
about a 0.8 to 1.1 share format in Dallas on a signal that now has about a 2
share... the Tejano format was lost to the market till we put it on HD, and
now, over time, it will be a respectable performer... just right under the
better performing formats we have on the main channels.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

SFTV_troy wrote:
I don't really understand why people are upset about the loss of
DX'ing over AM (only temporarily; it will be restored when AM goes
pure digital). You can still do DX'ing via using services like
shoutcast.com. Just yesterday at work I was listening to an
Australian station. Another favorite of mine is located in England.
DX'ing is still alive and well on the internet.
Uh... that's NOT DX'ing.

It may well become the DXing of the 21st Century.
Edwina, you're an idiot.

It just looks that way to us DxAce because you and I don't share the
level of self delusion that Eduardo has attained.



I honestly believe this is not delusion. I honestly believe he
believes this noise.

His comments blaming DXers for abandoning broadcasters, while
delineating precisely how broadcasters have developed their disdain for
DXers is evidence that he's really looking at snapshots of this party,
but not attending the party, itself. Taking the Broadcaster/Dxer enmity
out of chronological order, as he did, suggests that he's seeing what he
needs to focus on in order to justify his position, but not seeing a
good deal of the out-of-frame that gives the snapshot context. This is
common among manglement in Radio.

It's what used to be called not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's what pilots call flying instruments in VFR conditions: Paying so
much attention to the minutiae that they fail to look up and actually
see how the plane is being flown.

One of my mentors in the Physics department at UMSL used to say, as
the textbook he taught from explained, formulae and numbers are only
shorthand for English sentences. If you can't explain your case without
resorting to formulae and numbers, you can't explain your case.

Corporately, that is the equivalent of: If you can't convince someone
without quoting a policy, you're hiding behind a firewall because you
actually can't function amongst your clients/customers.

And if you notice, he doesn't really answer your questions,
Telamon...but like Johnny Cochran, he gives you the answer he would like
you to hear, whether it addresses your question or not.

Has he posted the link you've asked for yet?

There are several inconsistencies in our most recent discussion about
demographics and agencies. The kind of inconsistencies that someone with
major market experience in both sales and Manglement wouldn't have made.

And in these last discussions, about DXers and this thread about HD,
he's begun speaking openly out of both sides of his mouth, not only
contradicting himself but doing it with a kind of indignation that's
also inconsistent with someone of his knowledge and experience.

Someone made the statement, here, that a person of his stature and
position doesn't need the ego piece that is his website.

Perhaps, that's true. Although I know people in the business who are
still trying to prove something after 30 years in the big city. But when
you read it, and as Ace has pointed out several times that the content
of his website has changed more than once when his credentials were
called into question, it does give one reason to wonder not so much what
it is that's false, but what it is that may be true.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
t...
The other way to see this is from the perspective that there are not many
AM (MW) DXers left. The combined IRCA and NRC membership is around or
less than a thousand in North America... compare that to when RaDex was
sold at the news rack at the corner drugstore and DXing was engaged in by
millions.

You DO realize, don't you, that most AMBCB DX'ers (or SWL's for that
matter) do not belong to clubs?

If someone is using a station in its skywave protected contour, that is not
DXing. That is listening to the station in its coverage area.

That most are not even aware these clubs exist? Do you think that I cared
about clubs when I was lying in the grass when I was 14 listening to
Wolfman Jack (or the Grand Ol' Opry on weekends) on my pocket radio?

Wolfman is something of a different time and a different generation. He was
got audience on AM, at XERF and then XERB, because there was not much local
radio. It was pre-FM.

Where I spent some time, north of Traverse City, MI, at night we listened to
Chicago's WLS because there was no local station you could hear, at all.
Today, there are a dozen FMs and an AM putting primary signals over the
little town of Omena, and nobody listens to AM who is under about 50 there.

And the Opry can be heard on the web much better than WSM ever could be
picked up.

Do you think that those kids listening to a ball game from a distant
station when they should have been sleeping know or care about DX clubs?

I don't see a heck of a lot of kids going to or listening to baseball games
any more. Another sign of the times... baseball is a slow, oldeer person's
sport (or a ticket out of the Dominican Republic).

Or the trucker tuning across the dial to find something worth listening to
(hard to do these days when all you got at night is George Noory)?

Most truckers have Satellite now... an excellent solution for drivers who
move from market to market, too.

Only the hardcore DX nerds know or care about DX clubs. Most just listen
for fun or the excitement of hearing something from far away.

Static, fading and noise are fun? It may have been when there were no
alternatives, but between the web and the FM dial and other portable
devices, it is not 1966 any more..

HD radio won't just go away.
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote in message
t...
Why should formats that are not stations now be added as additional HD
channels. Where is the logic in that?
Because many formats are excluded because, with the finite number of FMs
in any market, there is not room for the second tier of formats. With HD
2 channels, there is.
Now, now, Eduardo... you know full well that the reason that a given
format is not available in a given market is because it's just not
profitable to program it.

That is absolutely untrue.

There are many profitable formats that could be done that are not being done
because there are even more profitable formats that "use up" all the
available FM channels in the market.



Now, weren't you the one that said that before consolidation, 50% of
all stations were not profitable?

Since there is only a 100 share in ratings and revenue, how does
doubling, or even trebling the number of channels in a market, even
under consolidation, make these additional number of channels profitable?

You can't have it both ways.

Forgive me for saying this, but.....


Now you DO sound like a shill.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Why should formats that are not stations now be added as additional HD
channels. Where is the logic in that?

Because many formats are excluded because, with the finite number of FMs
in
any market, there is not room for the second tier of formats. With HD 2
channels, there is.

I'm sorry, I fail to see the logic of your argument. Try again.


Let's say in Anytown that there are 24 formats that could get over about a 1
share.... in other words, the percentage of listening that would get
advertisers results based on enough listeners hearing the message. But
Anytown has only 12 FM signals that do a decent job of covering the market.
So there are 12 viable formats that are not being done in Anytown, formats
that would be salable, listenable and useful.

So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on and
eventually, as the number of radios increases, they start seeing sales
results. It took FM from about 1940 to the mid-70s to be broadly profitable,
so the wait for HD radios to improve and sell is a small consideration; many
of the formats themselves will sell HD, such as country in New York... a
format that got a mid-1's share when on a major FM some time ago.

In my own sector, I can see at least 5 if not 10 missing Hispanic formats in
LA alone... most of which would be good use of an HD channel.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

I just do not believe your contention that the numbers of people that
listen to night time AMBCB are small. I think there is a great deal of
regional listening at night and non-local stations during the day where
reception is of good quality such as where I live on the coast. There
are plenty of people that listen to stations that are not local in
order
to hear a program not broadcast locally.

There are no facts to support your contention. Listening to out of market
stations is very small (by the way, Ventura, Riverside West and San
Bernardino West are all in the LA DMA... the metro definition that
matches
the TV metro area). Still, in your county, there is pretty limited
in-market
listening to out of market stations.

You have no facts to support your contention since all the waking hours
revolve around the commercial radio books. The statistics you look at
don't address the regional listening. Now don't go back on the word of
your previous posts.

You have a mistaken impression of radio audience measurement. The fact is,
ANY radio station listened to in an Arbitron diary is processed. It does not
matter if it is commercial, public, religious, local, internet, satellite,
or a rare DX catch.

If enough mentions for enough time to create statistical reliability are
made the station is considered "in the book" but the Arbitron software
stations use lets us look at stations that may have a share of 0.0% but did
get one mention....

A sign that out of market listening is insignificant to radio and
advertisers comes with the already started roll out of the electronic People
Meter, which senses encoding on each station. Most "out of market" stations
so far are not encoded as it will not be till the end of next year that the
top 10 markets are on PPM; none of us cares about the 0.3% of listening to
out of market signals, by the way.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 29, 7:38 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"dxAce" wrote in message

...



SFTV_troy wrote:

I don't really understand why people are upset about the loss of
DX'ing over AM (only temporarily; it will be restored when AM goes
pure digital). You can still do DX'ing via using services like
shoutcast.com. Just yesterday at work I was listening to an
Australian station. Another favorite of mine is located in England.
DX'ing is still alive and well on the internet.

Uh... that's NOT DX'ing.

It may well become the DXing of the 21st Century.

While you're on the internet, maybe you should visit a diploma mill.
That would be right up your alley.

Why? I don't need a diploma, and never have.