HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

I don't think it likely that Anytown USA would support 24 different
formats. Anytown USA may be more diverse than in the past but not to
that extent.

In most cases, we can already quantify the interest in the second tier
formats, and every market has room to have double the FM formats that it
currently has, and all can, if properly done, enough audience to make money.

The losers will be the limited coverage or rimshot FMs, and the AMs trying
to do on of the viable FM formats on the dead band.... those will have to
find something even more niche or disappear.

So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on and
eventually, as the number of radios increases, they start seeing sales
results. It took FM from about 1940 to the mid-70s to be broadly
profitable,
so the wait for HD radios to improve and sell is a small consideration;
many
of the formats themselves will sell HD, such as country in New York... a
format that got a mid-1's share when on a major FM some time ago.

I don't see any radio stations promoting itself in multi-formats.
Currently listeners identify a station with a format.

The HD 2 channels are not identified with the main channel except as "102.9
HD2 is Tejano in Houston" type of IDs.

In my own sector, I can see at least 5 if not 10 missing Hispanic formats
in
LA alone... most of which would be good use of an HD channel.

Good grief there is more then 10? How many Hispanic formats are there?

More than there are in English, as we have the individual music forms of
nearly 20 nations, many of which are viable formats in different markets. An
example would be the Colombian population of Miami, of about 250,000. That
means there is room for both a Vallenato station, a Cumbia station and maybe
a traditional bambuco / folkloric music station, too. In LA, there are
several formats that would appeal only, but strongly, to Central Americans,
as well as Caribbean tropical, Spanish language rock, standards, all
grupera, all-norteña, oldies, 70's ballads, etc. There are 10 for you right
off the top of my head... all have been researched and are known second tier
formats that could get a one to two share on a decent FM... and will grow to
that on HD2's-.

There are already about a dozen Hispanic formats on, including Mexican
tropical, sports, news / talk, adult hits, AC, regional oldies, regional
hardcore, regional Mexican, Spanish CHR, variety, Christian and reggaetón.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
t...
Why should formats that are not stations now be added as additional HD
channels. Where is the logic in that?

Because many formats are excluded because, with the finite number of FMs
in any market, there is not room for the second tier of formats. With HD
2 channels, there is.

Now, now, Eduardo... you know full well that the reason that a given
format is not available in a given market is because it's just not
profitable to program it.

That is absolutely untrue.

There are many profitable formats that could be done that are not being done
because there are even more profitable formats that "use up" all the
available FM channels in the market.

Depending on the market, there are probably a dozen or so profitable,
although less so than those on the air already, formats available.

Call them what you will, they are simply formats 13 to 24 in a market with
12 or so stations.... profitable, salable, listenable. But not as profitable
as other formats, so they don't get broadcast until HD comes along.

The only difference with IBOC-FM is that now they can use a single plant
to provide multiple formats.. I don't see a lot of stations doing this,
though, on a long-range model, since these formats will still not be
profitable.

Sure they will be. Our Tejano formats on HD in 5 markets in Texas are
getting excellent response, and should be generating respectable income
soon, even without that many receivers out there. Tejano, as an example, was
about a 0.8 to 1.1 share format in Dallas on a signal that now has about a 2
share... the Tejano format was lost to the market till we put it on HD, and
now, over time, it will be a respectable performer... just right under the
better performing formats we have on the main channels.

What!

Are you saying that not only are there enough HD radios purchased in "a
market" AND by a specific ethnic group to show itself as a "respectable
performer" and by that I take it to mean it is showing good advertising
results? You have certainly reached new heights in the "strange tales
from the pointy haired marketing management side".

This sort of thinking started when Eduardo went on a diet and began
eating those radio diaries to lose weight. I told him it wasn't a good
idea but he would not listen. I hope you kids reading this out there on
Usenet now realize the dangers of a diet that consists only of radio
marketing statistics. This state of mental confusion could happen to
you.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Are you saying that not only are there enough HD radios purchased in "a
market" AND by a specific ethnic group to show itself as a "respectable
performer" and by that I take it to mean it is showing good advertising
results? You have certainly reached new heights in the "strange tales
from the pointy haired marketing management side".

We are just now getting our first advertisers on the Tejano network, and we
believe the interest by the lifestyle group has caused a lot more radios to
be sold than we thought. The morning show, which also runs on KXTN in San
Antonio where it is in the top 4 or 5 in rank always, gets half its calls
from the other markets, so someone is listening. And the advertisers who
know the lifestyle are willing to try the network. We have had the morning
talent do appearances in HD only markets with attendance of several hundred.

This is an ideal case of a format with a small but absolutely loyal
following who will spend the money for a radio and listen a lot.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 12:30 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...



I don't think it likely that Anytown USA would support 24 different
formats. Anytown USA may be more diverse than in the past but not to
that extent.

In most cases, we can already quantify the interest in the second tier
formats, and every market has room to have double the FM formats that it
currently has, and all can, if properly done, enough audience to make money.

The losers will be the limited coverage or rimshot FMs, and the AMs trying
to do on of the viable FM formats on the dead band.... those will have to
find something even more niche or disappear.



So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on and
eventually, as the number of radios increases, they start seeing sales
results. It took FM from about 1940 to the mid-70s to be broadly
profitable,
so the wait for HD radios to improve and sell is a small consideration;
many
of the formats themselves will sell HD, such as country in New York... a
format that got a mid-1's share when on a major FM some time ago.

I don't see any radio stations promoting itself in multi-formats.
Currently listeners identify a station with a format.

The HD 2 channels are not identified with the main channel except as "102..9
HD2 is Tejano in Houston" type of IDs.



In my own sector, I can see at least 5 if not 10 missing Hispanic formats
in
LA alone... most of which would be good use of an HD channel.

Good grief there is more then 10? How many Hispanic formats are there?

More than there are in English, as we have the individual music forms of
nearly 20 nations, many of which are viable formats in different markets. An
example would be the Colombian population of Miami, of about 250,000. That
means there is room for both a Vallenato station, a Cumbia station and maybe
a traditional bambuco / folkloric music station, too. In LA, there are
several formats that would appeal only, but strongly, to Central Americans,
as well as Caribbean tropical, Spanish language rock, standards, all
grupera, all-norteña, oldies, 70's ballads, etc. There are 10 for you right
off the top of my head... all have been researched and are known second tier
formats that could get a one to two share on a decent FM... and will grow to
that on HD2's-.

There are already about a dozen Hispanic formats on, including Mexican
tropical, sports, news / talk, adult hits, AC, regional oldies, regional
hardcore, regional Mexican, Spanish CHR, variety, Christian and reggaetón.

Wow, that's all. That's pathetic. I'd have thought that someone with
as many college degrees as you have could do better than that.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 12:38 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...



Are you saying that not only are there enough HD radios purchased in "a
market" AND by a specific ethnic group to show itself as a "respectable
performer" and by that I take it to mean it is showing good advertising
results? You have certainly reached new heights in the "strange tales
from the pointy haired marketing management side".

We are just now getting our first advertisers on the Tejano network, and we
believe the interest by the lifestyle group has caused a lot more radios to
be sold than we thought. The morning show, which also runs on KXTN in San
Antonio where it is in the top 4 or 5 in rank always, gets half its calls
from the other markets, so someone is listening. And the advertisers who
know the lifestyle are willing to try the network. We have had the morning
talent do appearances in HD only markets with attendance of several hundred.

This is an ideal case of a format with a small but absolutely loyal
following who will spend the money for a radio and listen a lot.

Sorry Tardo, but you'll never stop the internet or internet radio. Not
even you, with all your fancy college degrees and diplomas and
"certificates of completion" and mail order Ph.D.s

HD radio won't just go away.
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
Perhaps, that's true. Although I know people in the business who are
still trying to prove something after 30 years in the big city. But when
you read it, and as Ace has pointed out several times that the content of
his website has changed more than once when his credentials were called
into question, it does give one reason to wonder not so much what it is
that's false, but what it is that may be true.

You called me an SOB, so it is my turn to call you one.


You're right. I did. Because you are precisely that. You argue out
of context, and you don't address anything said by your opponents. You
remain oblique, and diffuse. And you speak in shorthand. You obfuscate.
Without actually making a case.

But when you blamed DXers for broadcasters' disdain, you truly
showed your intent. It's not about fact with you. It's about the debate.

And the truth doesn't require debate tactics. As someone here
pointed out some months ago.




The only thing on my
website that has changed in the last 4 years is the addition of a bunch of
old Radex, Whites and Stevenson's magazines. The bio / history is
essentially unchanged from when I cut and pasted it from my resume, about
year 2000. It's even got the same spelling errors.


Actually, Steve pointed out that wasn't true about a year ago.



Your knowledge of radio sales is dated, stilted and inaccurate;



I was wondering when that would finally come out.

At least my knowledge is based on 45 years of active experience.

There are questions about whether or not yours is.


Have a good evening, David. You've proven, by your own words, your
own obfuscations that just about everything said by Steve is true.

And to me, you're just another arrogant S.O.B who can't look beyond
his office to realize that everyone around him is thinking the same thing:


Methinks he doth protest too much.


Your time will come.





David Peter Maus.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote in message
t...
Why should formats that are not stations now be added as additional HD
channels. Where is the logic in that?
Because many formats are excluded because, with the finite number of
FMs in any market, there is not room for the second tier of formats.
With HD 2 channels, there is.
Now, now, Eduardo... you know full well that the reason that a given
format is not available in a given market is because it's just not
profitable to program it.
That is absolutely untrue.

There are many profitable formats that could be done that are not being
done because there are even more profitable formats that "use up" all the
available FM channels in the market.

Now, weren't you the one that said that before consolidation, 50% of
all stations were not profitable?

Yes, most are the dogs that can not be profitable. A B or C FM in a rated
market has a tough time losing money.... a daytimer has a tough time making
any, and most metro AMs are not profitable.

The bulk of brake even stations are small market ones.... the owner gets a
salary, but no return on the investment. the station is guaranteed lifetime
employment, unless it is an AM, in which case it should be good for 5 or 6
years still.
Since there is only a 100 share in ratings and revenue, how does
doubling, or even trebling the number of channels in a market, even under
consolidation, make these additional number of channels profitable?

Most radio operators know that unless we offer the variety of more formats,
many people will leave radio or use it less. In this case, we talk
ratings... if we want to preserve the same rating base, called Persons Using
Radio, we have to keep the erosion down. Markets are highly fragmented
already; in Houston's PPM the difference between #1 and #15 is 0.2 ratings
points. So some additional fragmenting in the family is better than losing
listeners who want a specific format and can't get it on terrestrial radio.



You can't have it both ways, David. You can't insist that Radio is
healthier than ever, and then claim your worry is about the success of
terrestrial radio against alternatives.

You can't have it both ways, David. You can't claim that there are
too many signals to be profitable, and then solve the problem with more
options.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Like I said, now you really DO sound like a shill.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
D Peter Maus wrote:

Telamon wrote:
In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

SFTV_troy wrote:
I don't really understand why people are upset about the loss of
DX'ing over AM (only temporarily; it will be restored when AM goes
pure digital). You can still do DX'ing via using services like
shoutcast.com. Just yesterday at work I was listening to an
Australian station. Another favorite of mine is located in England.
DX'ing is still alive and well on the internet.
Uh... that's NOT DX'ing.

It may well become the DXing of the 21st Century.
Edwina, you're an idiot.

It just looks that way to us DxAce because you and I don't share the
level of self delusion that Eduardo has attained.



I honestly believe this is not delusion. I honestly believe he
believes this noise.

His comments blaming DXers for abandoning broadcasters, while
delineating precisely how broadcasters have developed their disdain for
DXers is evidence that he's really looking at snapshots of this party,
but not attending the party, itself. Taking the Broadcaster/Dxer enmity
out of chronological order, as he did, suggests that he's seeing what he
needs to focus on in order to justify his position, but not seeing a
good deal of the out-of-frame that gives the snapshot context. This is
common among manglement in Radio.

It's what used to be called not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's what pilots call flying instruments in VFR conditions: Paying so
much attention to the minutiae that they fail to look up and actually
see how the plane is being flown.

One of my mentors in the Physics department at UMSL used to say, as
the textbook he taught from explained, formulae and numbers are only
shorthand for English sentences. If you can't explain your case without
resorting to formulae and numbers, you can't explain your case.

Corporately, that is the equivalent of: If you can't convince someone
without quoting a policy, you're hiding behind a firewall because you
actually can't function amongst your clients/customers.

And if you notice, he doesn't really answer your questions,
Telamon...but like Johnny Cochran, he gives you the answer he would like
you to hear, whether it addresses your question or not.

Has he posted the link you've asked for yet?

There are several inconsistencies in our most recent discussion about
demographics and agencies. The kind of inconsistencies that someone with
major market experience in both sales and Manglement wouldn't have made.

And in these last discussions, about DXers and this thread about HD,
he's begun speaking openly out of both sides of his mouth, not only
contradicting himself but doing it with a kind of indignation that's
also inconsistent with someone of his knowledge and experience.

Someone made the statement, here, that a person of his stature and
position doesn't need the ego piece that is his website.

Perhaps, that's true. Although I know people in the business who are
still trying to prove something after 30 years in the big city. But when
you read it, and as Ace has pointed out several times that the content
of his website has changed more than once when his credentials were
called into question, it does give one reason to wonder not so much what
it is that's false, but what it is that may be true.

I think he believes his own noise and no he can't provide the link
because what he claims doesn't exist. At least not yet.

He has written some weird stuff like he has people around him looking
over his shoulder laughing at peoples critical responses to his posts on
Usenet as an attempt to bully the people critical of him. Very strange
he would need this imaginary support.

I have noted the deception and misdirection. It's madding.

Most lies have a kernel of truth in them so they are believable. All I
know is every time a take a poke at what he posts the stick goes right
through the one layer of the "story" he tells. All that he posts seem
very illusionary in nature.

At one time it seemed to me you thought he is for real. You still think
that way?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
David wrote:

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:52:15 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
.
..

I just do not believe your contention that the numbers of people that
listen to night time AMBCB are small. I think there is a great deal of
regional listening at night and non-local stations during the day where
reception is of good quality such as where I live on the coast. There
are plenty of people that listen to stations that are not local in order
to hear a program not broadcast locally.

There are no facts to support your contention. Listening to out of market
stations is very small (by the way, Ventura, Riverside West and San
Bernardino West are all in the LA DMA... the metro definition that matches
the TV metro area). Still, in your county, there is pretty limited
in-market
listening to out of market stations.

You have no facts to support your contention since all the waking hours
revolve around the commercial radio books. The statistics you look at
don't address the regional listening. Now don't go back on the word of
your previous posts.

Anybody who listens to AM radio at night around here is likely DXing.

Then I'm an exception. I listen to regional stations for the programming.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
David wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:




I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough
market, you fool.

Great radio. I'm listening to Wayne Resnik on mine, via a 10" RCA
Tolex speaker box older than I am.

Yuk. That guy is a pervert from the word go.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California