On Sep 19, 5:24*pm, RHF wrote:
On Sep 19, 4:24*pm, bpnjensen wrote:





On Sep 19, 3:54*pm, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

On 9/19/2010 2:04 PM, dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

NAH ! {Once Again} -wrt- 'Climate Change' : The Mankind Factor is
1 in 1,000,000 or less . . and the other 999,999 is the Earth and
Sun with the Earth being 999 and the Sun being 999,000 in the
Balance-of-Things for all of the yesterdays; Today; and all of
the tomorrows . . .

Your science, such as it is, is flawed. You repeat oil company
talking points. Humans have greater effect on climate than
volcanoes, for instance.

On 9/19/2010 5:54 PM, John Smith wrote:

I seriously doubt that. If you take all the energy being expended by
the volcanoes in the world, I'd bet the energy being released dwarfs
our expenditure ...

Regards, JS

Well, it's not energy per se. It's the gaseous droplets and particulate
matter ejected into the air by volcanoes.

Absolute FACT #1: Carbon dioxide IS a "greenhouse" gas (lets solar heat
in but won't let it escape).

Absolute FACT #2: Ice core samples from the last 50,000 years shows a
DRAMATIC increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide that pretty much
coincides with human industrialization. The ice core samples show
sporadic CO2 increases that can be attributed to volcanoes but accounts
for no where near the total rise in the amount of CO2.

For those that say we are getting cooler, they may be right. The very
latest solar data shows that the sun may be "slowing down" (for lack of
a better term) and that this will give us another cooling Maunder
Minimum as experienced circa 1600-1700.

But just because the Maunder Minimum is offsetting the warming effects
of continuing increased CO2, that doesn't mean we can indefinitely
continue pumping bazillions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. Think
hundreds of millions of Chinese and Indians trading in their bicycles
for cars. * :-(

In fact, the current science suggest that without the effect of human
CO2, the earth would actually be slowly cooling rather than heating.
As a result, human-generated emissions are responsible for ~120% of
the heating being measured today (yes, the math actually works - 100%
heating + -20% cooling = 120%).

BpnJ,

Was this Math done with the Doctored-Up {Bogus}
DATA from the Bought-and-Paid-for British CRU and
other "Global Warming Expert" $cienti$t$http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...7393/climatega...
*.
*.
The Great Mother Earth Is Having Hot-and-Cold
Flashes {Going Through Menopause}http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...d3f15ae2fbe1d0
*.
Now with 6B Humans on this Earth : That is getting
to be Gross Over Population of The Planet; and a
very real Critical Problem for All of Humanity
-but- That Ain't "Climate Change" [.]http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/047a9a4299829591http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio..shortwave/msg/931ba34ca845534c
*.
*.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No RHF, it was not. More bogus talking points on your part.

On Sep 19, 4:31*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 9/19/2010 3:54 PM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

...
Well, it's not energy per se. It's the gaseous droplets and particulate
matter ejected into the air by volcanoes.

Absolute FACT #1: Carbon dioxide IS a "greenhouse" gas (lets solar heat
in but won't let it escape).
...

Actually, cO2 is rather benign and not any real thing to worry about.
Anyone growing marijuana or aquarium plants, and supplying them with
excess cO2, knows the voracious appetite of plants for carbon dioxide.
The effect of adding more cO2 is very dramatic on plant growth. *When we
finally find another fuel source, the plants will clean up this problem
very quickly. *All life on this planet is carbon based, carbon is a
nutrient, not a poison.

The point is missed.

Yes, pound for pound, CO2 as a GHG is mild compared to methane, water
vapor, nitrous oxide and a number of other GHGs. The problem is that
there is so much more of it, especially after we have been releasing
300,000,000 years' worth in a geologic blink of an eye. A human being
is a lot bigger than an army ant, but pit him against a million ants
and see what happens.

The plant population of this planet is no match for the hundreds of
millions of years' worth of dead plants we have quickly released back
to the outer environment. The CO2 concentration has risen drastically
in the last 250 years, and continues to go up exponentially - if
plants were able to absorb it, this effect would have been obvious by
now, and it's not. Moreover, the plant-based systems that could
absorb it - rainforests, temperate forests and even the oceanic
plankton - are currently so decimated by man's other activities that
their capacity for sequestration are quite limited.

Nobody claims that elemental carbon or CO2 is a poison.

On Sep 19, 6:02*pm, RHF wrote:
On Sep 19, 4:31*pm, John Smith wrote: On 9/19/2010 3:54 PM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:

...
Well, it's not energy per se. It's the gaseous droplets and particulate
matter ejected into the air by volcanoes.

Absolute FACT #1: Carbon dioxide IS a "greenhouse" gas (lets solar heat
in but won't let it escape).
...

- Actually, cO2 is rather benign and not any real thing to worry
about.
- Anyone growing marijuana or aquarium plants, and supplying them with
- excess cO2, knows the voracious appetite of plants for carbon
dioxide.
- The effect of adding more cO2 is very dramatic on plant growth.
*When we
- finally find another fuel source, the plants will clean up this
problem
- very quickly. *All life on this planet is carbon based, carbon is a
- nutrient, not a poison.
-
- However, there is one detrimental effect of cO2. *It is dissolving
in
- the oceans which provide a natural buffering (absorbing) medium.
*This
- is causing a slight rise in the acidity of the oceans, and
particularly
- near shorelines, and this is detrimental on the shells of mussels,
- clams, etc. *There are probably other problems with the excess cO2
that
- I am not aware of, as this is not a great matter of concern to me.

More nuclear plants would be a good answer, until we find the next
energy source, however, there is even more opposition to the use of
nuclear power plants than coal/oil fired plants. *One thing is for sure,
nuclear will only be a temporary solution when we run out of oil/coal,
as this is in limited supply also.

Regards,
JS

JS,

Yeah the simplest way to Off-Set much of the Man
Make CO2 is to Plant Plants and Trees in every County
World Wide : Don't Pay a Carbon Credit Tax to Keep
from Cutting Down Trees in a Nation in Africa or some
other Third World Nation. *Spend That CO2 Enrichment
Tax right here in the USA and Plant Trees in American

I say "NO" to Global Carbon Credit Tax ~ RHF
{Wealth Transfer to Other Nations}
* Don't Waste Money Giving US Green Dollars
to Corrupt Foreign Dictators to spend elsewhere
* Can't Heal The World -if- We Don't Heal the USA First
* Let Them Follow The USA's Example
* Export Know-How and Can-Do along with Green
Produces and Services : NOT Give Away Money

I say "YES" to an American CO2 Enrichment Tax ~ RHF©*
{Re-Greening American & Investing in the USA}
* American Taxes should Pay for American Jobs
* Put Americans To Work Re-Greening the USA
* Making America Beautiful Is Good For The Planet
* A Better America Makes A Better World
* A Healthy Ecologically Strong USA Is The Answer
* Stop Exporting American Jobs, Technology
and Capital to Foreign Countries
* Reduce the Need for Foreign Produces and Services
* Reduce the Need for Foreign Oil and Gas
= = = Right Here In The USA = = =
* Build New Cleaner Electrical Power Generation Plants
* Build New Electrical Power Generation Dams
* Build New Cleaner Autos & Trucks and Improve Roads
* Make New Cleaner and more Energy Efficient Appliances
* Make New Cleaner and more Energy Efficient Products
* Develop New Cleaner and more Energy Efficient Sevices
YES-just-say-no-No-NO-to-global-carbon-credit-taxes-
Spend The American Tax Money Right Here in the USA
Spend That American Tax Money Right Here in the USA
Spend Our American Tax Money Right Here in the USA
Say "NO" To Exporting American Tax Money Overseas
Say "NO" To Exporting American Tax Money Other Nations
Say "NO" To Exporting American Tax Money Dictators
*.
* © This is another Copy-Righted 'Brain Fart' of RHF
-wrt- 'Brain Fart' -yeah- This Idea(s) Stinks -pew(pu)-
*.
*.
The Great Mother Earth Is Having Hot-and-Cold
Flashes {Going Through Menopause}http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...d3f15ae2fbe1d0
*.
Now with 6B Humans on this Earth : That is getting
to be Gross Over Population of The Planet; and a
very real Critical Problem for All of Humanity
-but- That Ain't "Climate Change" [.]http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/047a9a4299829591http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio..shortwave/msg/931ba34ca845534c
*.
*.

Good luck with that tree planting idea. You could not cover the
planet with enough trees to stop the CO2 rise even temporarily.

On Sep 20, 7:03*am, dave wrote:
RHF wrote:

As big as NYC, Tokyo, Shanghai etc etc or any of our
Man-Make Mega-Cities are I don't recall an Air Traffic
having to be diverted around them due to their Pullution :
As was the recent case of the Islanic Volcano

How long did that go on?

Once again, RHF misses the point and uses a false point of comparison
to state his case. If you're going to compare coconuts with sewing
machines, you need to find the common factor.

On Sep 19, 4:43*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 9/19/2010 4:21 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

...
Moreover, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the magnitude
and nature of the human effect, and what it means to be instantaneous
in geologic time. *RHFs arguments use gut instinct and common sense,
when neither one is reliable in matters of science. *I have no idea
where these gross magnitude numbers come from, but if this is oil
company data, it is designed to appeal to the lowest common
denominator of understanding and gullibility. *Sorry, RHF - this is
just pseudoscientific mishmash.

The truth of the matter is, we are not going to stop generating cO2
anytime soon. *Energy is what keeps everyone eating ... so although
there will be a lot of people profiting in making energy very expensive,
we will go on using it in ever increasing quantities. *Then, the oil
will be gone, and we will begin building nuclear plants, bet on it.

Regards,
JS

OK, well, then, you've sealed out fate with that proclamation, Thank
you.

On Sep 20, 7:01*am, dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:
On 9/19/2010 4:21 PM, bpnjensen wrote:

...
Moreover, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the magnitude
and nature of the human effect, and what it means to be instantaneous
in geologic time. RHFs arguments use gut instinct and common sense,
when neither one is reliable in matters of science. I have no idea
where these gross magnitude numbers come from, but if this is oil
company data, it is designed to appeal to the lowest common
denominator of understanding and gullibility. Sorry, RHF - this is
just pseudoscientific mishmash.

The truth of the matter is, we are not going to stop generating cO2
anytime soon. Energy is what keeps everyone eating ... so although there
will be a lot of people profiting in making energy very expensive, we
will go on using it in ever increasing quantities. Then, the oil will be
gone, and we will begin building nuclear plants, bet on it.

Regards,
JS

How about we quit eating meat? That's the fastest, most effective means
of making a big difference.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Indeed, and that's what I did 21 years ago.

On Sep 20, 6:41*am, John Smith wrote:
On 9/20/2010 7:01 AM, dave wrote:

...
How about we quit eating meat? That's the fastest, most effective means
of making a big difference.

That begins an interesting thought. *How, we Americans, greatly extended
our lifespans, health and well being from grazing humongous amounts of
beef and having the American diet centered around this excellent source
of protein.

Now that the rich find that the population is too expensive to feed a
diet of beef to, they wish to convert us over to a diet of rice, veges
and tofu. *Some idiots will actually begin touting this as desirable!
If you ever doubt the lack of intelligence in a good portion of the
population, you just gave a good example of a reminder ...

You go eat that chit ... leaves more steak for me!

Regards,
JS

You wish.

On Sep 19, 7:24*pm, RHF wrote:
On Sep 19, 4:21 pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Sep 19, 2:04 pm, dave wrote:

RHF wrote:
NAH ! {Once Again} -wrt- 'Climate Change' : The
Mankind Factor is 1 in 1,000,000 or less . . and
the other 999,999 is the Earth and Sun with the
Earth being 999 and the Sun being 999,000 in
the Balance-of-Things for all of the yesterdays;
Today; and all of the tomorrows . . .

Your science, such as it is, is flawed. You repeat oil company talking
points. *Humans have greater effect on climate than volcanoes, for instance.

- Moreover, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the magnitude
- and nature of the human effect, and what it means to be
instantaneous
- in geologic time. *RHFs arguments use gut instinct and common sense,
- when neither one is reliable in matters of science.

BpnJ - ? matters of science ?

Was this Matters of $cience done with the Doctored-Up
{Bogus} DATA from those Bought-and-Paid-for British
CRU $cientists and other "Global Warming Expert"
$cientists . . .http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...7393/climatega...
*.
- I have no idea where these gross magnitude numbers
- come from, but if this is oil company data,

BpnJ - ? oil company data ?

Hey - Didn't Prez Obama tell us to Trust and Rely
on BP Corp's Management; and BP's Oil Expertise;
and BP's Oil Data to Fix Things In The Gulf of Mexico ?

OBTW - My 'common-sense' *tells me that
BP* is an "oil company"
* crude-oil-hint - "BP" stands for 'British Petroleum'http://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/Petroleum
*.
- it is designed to appeal to the lowest common
- denominator of understanding and gullibility.

BpnJ - Now taking about my 'gullibility'

Sort of became a 'common-sense' Scientific 'Skeptic"
when I heard and read about the Doctored-Up {Bogus}
DATA from those Bought-and-Paid-for British CRU $
cientists and other "Global Warming Expert" $cientists . . .http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...7393/climatega...
*.
- Sorry, RHF - this is just pseudoscientific mishmash.

Oops NEWS FLASH -Up-Date-
White House annouces the 'Global Warming'
{Brand Name} is Out : and has a new Phase
"Global Climate Disruption" is now {Brand Name}http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...global-warming...
-per- White House Science Adviser John Holdren
*.
- = Let The Subject Line Change* = -
(OT) : Thinking of Pseudo-Science and the
Global Warming to Climate Change to
Global Climate Disruption -Re-Branding-
* Hey didn't Prez Obama Promised Change ;;-}}
-sort-of-like-the-same-old-dead-pig-in-a-new-poke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke

BpnJ,

Hey - Never claim to be a Rocket Scientist or
for that matter an expert at anything Scientific :
'common-sense' is my game ~ RHF {so sorry}

But my 'common-sense' tell me that the Earth
and Sun are way Way WAY BIGGER then the
entire Mass of Humanity by several orders of
magnitude.
*.
Say "YES" to an American CO2 Enrichment Tax
{Re-Greening American & Investing in the USA}http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...fd866eb3599b1b
*.
The Great Mother Earth Is Having Hot-and-Cold
Flashes {Going Through Menopause}http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...d6e58354a13268
*.
Now with 6B Humans on this Earth : That is getting
to be Gross Over Population of The Planet; and a
very real Critical Problem for All of Humanity
-but- That Ain't "Climate Change" [.]http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/047a9a4299829591http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio..shortwave/msg/931ba34ca845534chttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/19efd6695dc05133
*.
*.

You just keep on comparing those coconuts to sewing machines...

On Sep 19, 7:24*pm, RHF wrote:
On Sep 19, 4:21 pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Sep 19, 2:04 pm, dave wrote:

RHF wrote:
NAH ! {Once Again} -wrt- 'Climate Change' : The
Mankind Factor is 1 in 1,000,000 or less . . and
the other 999,999 is the Earth and Sun with the
Earth being 999 and the Sun being 999,000 in
the Balance-of-Things for all of the yesterdays;
Today; and all of the tomorrows . . .

Your science, such as it is, is flawed. You repeat oil company talking
points. *Humans have greater effect on climate than volcanoes, for instance.

- Moreover, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the magnitude
- and nature of the human effect, and what it means to be
instantaneous
- in geologic time. *RHFs arguments use gut instinct and common sense,
- when neither one is reliable in matters of science.

BpnJ - ? matters of science ?

Was this Matters of $cience done with the Doctored-Up
{Bogus} DATA from those Bought-and-Paid-for British
CRU $cientists and other "Global Warming Expert"
$cientists . . .http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...7393/climatega...
*.
- I have no idea where these gross magnitude numbers
- come from, but if this is oil company data,

BpnJ - ? oil company data ?

Hey - Didn't Prez Obama tell us to Trust and Rely
on BP Corp's Management; and BP's Oil Expertise;
and BP's Oil Data to Fix Things In The Gulf of Mexico ?

OBTW - My 'common-sense' *tells me that
BP* is an "oil company"
* crude-oil-hint - "BP" stands for 'British Petroleum'http://en.wikipedia..org/wiki/Petroleum
*.
- it is designed to appeal to the lowest common
- denominator of understanding and gullibility.

BpnJ - Now taking about my 'gullibility'

Sort of became a 'common-sense' Scientific 'Skeptic"
when I heard and read about the Doctored-Up {Bogus}
DATA from those Bought-and-Paid-for British CRU $
cientists and other "Global Warming Expert" $cientists . . .http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ja...7393/climatega...
*.
- Sorry, RHF - this is just pseudoscientific mishmash.

Oops NEWS FLASH -Up-Date-
White House annouces the 'Global Warming'
{Brand Name} is Out : and has a new Phase
"Global Climate Disruption" is now {Brand Name}http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...global-warming...
-per- White House Science Adviser John Holdren
*.
- = Let The Subject Line Change* = -
(OT) : Thinking of Pseudo-Science and the
Global Warming to Climate Change to
Global Climate Disruption -Re-Branding-
* Hey didn't Prez Obama Promised Change ;;-}}
-sort-of-like-the-same-old-dead-pig-in-a-new-poke-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke

BpnJ,

Hey - Never claim to be a Rocket Scientist or
for that matter an expert at anything Scientific :
'common-sense' is my game ~ RHF {so sorry}

But my 'common-sense' tell me that the Earth
and Sun are way Way WAY BIGGER then the
entire Mass of Humanity by several orders of
magnitude.
*.
Say "YES" to an American CO2 Enrichment Tax
{Re-Greening American & Investing in the USA}http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...fd866eb3599b1b
*.
The Great Mother Earth Is Having Hot-and-Cold
Flashes {Going Through Menopause}http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...d6e58354a13268
*.
Now with 6B Humans on this Earth : That is getting
to be Gross Over Population of The Planet; and a
very real Critical Problem for All of Humanity
-but- That Ain't "Climate Change" [.]http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/047a9a4299829591http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio..shortwave/msg/931ba34ca845534chttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/19efd6695dc05133
*.
*.

BTW - once more, with gusto - COMMON SENSE DOES NOT = LOGIC OR
SCIENCE.

Common sense is virtually worthless in physics, chemistry, astronomy,
geology, meteorology, climatology or any other physical science. The
number of mistakes that have been made in science using common sense
is legion. I won't give a nickle for your common sense when it comes
to any of these.

Joe from Kokomo wrote:


For those that say we are getting cooler, they may be right. The very
latest solar data shows that the sun may be "slowing down" (for lack of
a better term) and that this will give us another cooling Maunder
Minimum as experienced circa 1600-1700.

On 9/20/2010 9:39 AM, dave wrote:

Even though the sun is relatively quiet, 2010 is the hottest year on
record so far. What will happen when the sun returns to normal?

What happens?

If we are lucky (?), a solar maxima like 1958-1959, where you could work
the world with 10 watts feeding a wet noodle.

Been there, done that...