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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 2:09 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. So what's your point? work 4 times as well doing what? The number of people buying them. So in other words, nothing like what you said. Certainly it does. By your standard of people buying them......they work 4 times as well, because 4 times as many people buy them. Don't blame me because you don't understand your own standard. You're making up something I never said nor implied. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 12:46 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 3:29 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:45:12 -0700, John wrote: "Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. " We may. But the application I have which is intolerably slow is Librarian Pro. Apparently it uses the Access database engine that has troubles with libraries as large as mine. A faster graphics card won't make it faster. I wonder if I have any applications that I would notice a speed increase with a faster graphics card. Well, first a 3.0+ ghz processor, multicore/multithreaded, 64 bit OS, fast frontside buss, fast memory, fast storage devices/software, buffers created for redundant search/filing, etc. features, etc. would be the way to go ... then, with a firm base, exploit stealing GPU cycles/time ... if speed is really a valid need, water cooling and over clocking are very useful techniques -- of the CPU, itself -- applications using parallel processing, motherboards with multiple physical, and multiple cored, processors, etc. Also, the search/storage formats, methods, techniques, structure of data handling is VERY IMPORTANT ... if speed is failing, you should attempt to locate software which uses BINARY TREES in the handling of the data ... by asking 10 questions, you can find one unique element within a pool of over 1,000,000 ... these are some of the most fast, effective and efficient data processing algorithms in existence, if not THE MOST ... I am thinking, if there is a need, someone has already written it, or is writing it ... Wow. You've heard of binary trees... ...you MUST be a computer science expert! It is true, the application in question cannot use these advanced techniques, unless the application has been made capable/aware by the software engineers maintaining the app in question. It might be possible to locate one for the use in question, inquires of those in the field might put you on the right track -- if available. Often, I have been employed just to find applications/software to fit some extremely narrow slice of use ... many make a very comfortable income doing nothing else -- only consulting on software/hardware ... it is possible just to "ask around" and be privy to such valuable info., worth a try ... But then, powerful video cards are usually only found in high end game and business/production, research machines ... slapping in a high end video card is certainly not the first, or even middle of the line, upgrade one would first jump to ... indeed, probably the last after every other possible upgrade and a want/need for speed is still a necessity ... Or, simple said, it is well beyond the needs of most casual users (BOINC and computer games being a notable exception) ... however, valid when comparing/benchmarking hardware capabilities ... and, as pointed out, there are valid and valuable uses for it. You said it was important to you for "compiling and linking"... You are an idiot who has no clue that you are an idiot ... this is something I have witnesses very few times ... indeed, I now realize you may the first real one I have seen! Your schooling must have truly been amazing to experience ... for your teachers! I shouldn't be surprised if the experience prompted some to change career! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 12:45 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 9:45 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...=A0D622CE9F579 F09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Regards, JS BOINC even ... list of BOINC projects he http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php Excerpt from that: "Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. " And not one word that says you be able to compile or link faster... Yeah, I suppose fools, such as yourself, could be confused by that ... however, those who realize that computers do nothing but crunch numbers, and that added speed, cycles, etc. will allow the crunching to be done faster will have little problem ... But, thanks for the example of how easily morons will be confused, just in case anyone didn't understand it. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 1:52 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 9:45 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F 579 F09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Regards, JS BOINC even ... list of BOINC projects he http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php Excerpt from that: "Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. " And not one word that says you be able to compile or link faster... http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...ng-gpu-upgrade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again Read it and weep. Which mentions compiling and linking on a personal computer, where? Uh, what makes you think that compiling/linking/trans-coding/crunching-byte-code/an-interpretive-language(such as basic)/etc. would be any different than any other app ran? You getting confusing messages from aliens? Or, just beyond your range of cognitive abilities? Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 12:44 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...A0D622CE9F579F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. As I already stated, ANY application which is aware can utilize the CPU and I already said I write my own apps, and for others ... I'd say you are grasping at straws and personal attacks ... but then, you have demonstrated nothing more ... everyone is a liar who has proven you wrong or your disagree with ... you are a little angry ****** that is all ****ed of he is ignorant ... too bad fool. Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 1:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...id=A0D622CE9F5 79F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU? GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...ng-gpu-upgrade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again Gesus ... you don't even have a clue how moronic that question is, do you? ... but you ask it as if you could understand the answer, obviously you could not ... better yet would be a real moronic question like, why is a GPU not a CPU? ... the answer, IT IS and, like heads, two processors are always better than one! roflol Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Yep, and for that very reason, why should they pay a lot more money for a machine that basically does the exact same job of a much cheaper PC? IOW, you just shot yourself in the foot. Nope. Because it does it in a manner that is easier for ordinary people to handle. It works *better*. Sounds like a matter of personal opinion to me. I mean you can make up a very decent system that will handle most people fine for much longer than 4 years, do it for a fraction of the price of a Mac, and will be vastly more upgradeable when they do need to make changes. And as long as they have you to help them out every few weeks, they'll be fine. Show me they are going to need help "every few weeks". |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:52:27 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others...... Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me. Does that same logic apply to restaurants, cars, & concert tickets? It most certainly can. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:09:38 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. Sorry if you found a bad supplier. Most will build systems to your exact specifications or tell you the general tradeoffs of different options and what you really need vs what you think you need. Such as most people don't need a massive hard drive. Nor do you need a massive amount of memory for most applications. Depending on what you are doing you can also save a bunch of money on the video card. That allows you to put the money were it needs to go, in getting a better motherboard, CPU, and/or faster memory. If you know what you want, you can buy it from the big name companies too. The local make-it-yourself-shop's strength was in helping people find what they wanted. Yep, and that still takes place. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little story here. The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage here. In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor at all. Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little story here. The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage here. In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor at all. Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: ... I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of the mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider. Not going to happen. But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech market with consumers with a few bucks. Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the world, dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their fantasies ... roflol Still, one must keep a foot in reality ... Regards, JS In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In that, it has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to talk about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but that is being done at pathetic profit levels. Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in cost. Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops. Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market But Apple makes most of the profit... :-) Shows they overprice their goods.... Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that? Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others...... Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me. Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying their products. I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well worth it. :-)\ And then you have a bunch more people that decide, that the extra price really isn't worth it. Yup. That's true. But most of them make that decision blindly; never having actually used a Mac. I've worked with, supported, sold, worked with, sold, and supported Macs since about 1985. In all that time, of the people who've switched from PCs to Macs, only one wanted to go back. And how many didn't switch? |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F 5 79F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU? GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...tting-gpu-upgr ade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again Gesus ... you don't even have a clue how moronic that question is, do you? ... but you ask it as if you could understand the answer, obviously you could not ... better yet would be a real moronic question like, why is a GPU not a CPU? ... the answer, IT IS and, like heads, two processors are always better than one! roflol Regards, JS You claimed *YOU* needed a faster GPU in order speed up YOUR compiling and linking, John... ....and now you're producing link after link that doesn't support that claim. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:24:05 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Most people, when shopping, never get to the checkout with more in their basket -- quite amazing when you consider the morons who bought homes! The real question here, is why was there a big bubble of morons purchasing homes? Is it possible they never heard, "BUYER BEWARE?" roflol ... you just gotta love morons, it is always someone elses fault they did something stupid ... next, I expect a cop to walk up to one and ask them, "Why did u just shoot that person?" And, they reply, "He just got in the way of my bullet -- it wasn't my fault!" On the other hand, if we have policies that don't take into account human nature, we should be prepared to live with the result. If a business mandates changing passwords that are too difficult for most people to memorize - it should be prepared for them being written down on post-it notes. If salesmen get bonuses for selling products you cannot deliver, be prepared for business problems. If bankers make short term money by selling mortgages over conservative projected values (then pass them to others), expect a mortgage breakdown. Is it good for the country when stupid (or smart) people lose their homes? We shouldn't have policies that say "it's their fault, let them suffer" - especially not when the whole country has to suffer along with them. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:31:03 -0500, Lloyd E Parsons
wrote: The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing. Don't some of the big guys have Just In Time production? If I go to a web site and enter all of my specifics, does it find my exact computer in a warehouse - or does it assemble my computer to match my criteria? Of course, both types of computer makers need to warehouse parts. It's expensive to stock a video card it might not sell. But a large plant can afford to have a rarely sold card more than a small shop. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:00:42 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others...... Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me. Does that same logic apply to restaurants, cars, & concert tickets? It most certainly can. Who determines whether a something is overpriced, if not those who choose to buy it? (Or is it that they shouldn't be allowed to have different choices from you?) -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/17/11 8:54 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:31:03 -0500, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing. Don't some of the big guys have Just In Time production? If I go to a web site and enter all of my specifics, does it find my exact computer in a warehouse - or does it assemble my computer to match my criteria? Of course, both types of computer makers need to warehouse parts. It's expensive to stock a video card it might not sell. But a large plant can afford to have a rarely sold card more than a small shop. Dell was literally built on the idea of just-in-time throughout its supply chain and production line. Basically when you call Dell they are doing a build sheet for your computer. Other mfgs watched in awe as Dell honed that to a fine point. It was Dell's biggest claim to fame! Of course, now the profits are really poor in the wintel side of the computer builders and it makes that even more important. I worked for a couple of small computer shops and we stocked very little. We targetted small business and schools and did very little business with the consumer market. We found that by carrying just a very few parts in stock, and ordering in for overnight delivery to us to be a better way to do things. Out new sales tended to be bulk sales, so we ordered parts for those builds as needed. Later we moved from building our own to reselling Compaq and other product lines. It was just a better way to go. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/17/2011 6:47 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:24:05 -0700, John wrote: Most people, when shopping, never get to the checkout with more in their basket -- quite amazing when you consider the morons who bought homes! The real question here, is why was there a big bubble of morons purchasing homes? Is it possible they never heard, "BUYER BEWARE?" roflol ... you just gotta love morons, it is always someone elses fault they did something stupid ... next, I expect a cop to walk up to one and ask them, "Why did u just shoot that person?" And, they reply, "He just got in the way of my bullet -- it wasn't my fault!" On the other hand, if we have policies that don't take into account human nature, we should be prepared to live with the result. If a business mandates changing passwords that are too difficult for most people to memorize - it should be prepared for them being written down on post-it notes. If salesmen get bonuses for selling products you cannot deliver, be prepared for business problems. If bankers make short term money by selling mortgages over conservative projected values (then pass them to others), expect a mortgage breakdown. Is it good for the country when stupid (or smart) people lose their homes? We shouldn't have policies that say "it's their fault, let them suffer" - especially not when the whole country has to suffer along with them. The truth is not in that question(s), but in the answer. Crooks are NEVER to be tolerated, even it they have tricked and abused the unwitting and ignorant, and the mistakes of the unwitting and ignorant are NEVER to become the norm ... and not even if the majority of the citizens have become so involved ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 9:54 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F 5 79F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU? GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...tting-gpu-upgr ade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again Gesus ... you don't even have a clue how moronic that question is, do you? ... but you ask it as if you could understand the answer, obviously you could not ... better yet would be a real moronic question like, why is a GPU not a CPU? ... the answer, IT IS and, like heads, two processors are always better than one! roflol Regards, JS You claimed *YOU* needed a faster GPU in order speed up YOUR compiling and linking, John... ...and now you're producing link after link that doesn't support that claim. Actually, I claimed that software can be made aware of the GPU and utilize it to speed up the processing power of ANY application, it can, it has been, and my claims are true. I also claimed I use software which uses these methods, and I gave an example of software which can be obtained, by anyone, to demonstrated the power of "what happens" when those methods are applied. You have engaged in a personal attack and attempt to deceptively create an argument to aid you ... duh! Worse yet, you are betting you will find morons to assist and support your efforts ... and make me appear answerable to you -- go abuse your wife ... obviously she must be a willing subject, I am not, I eat morons like you ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 12:47 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , . net wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better." I didn't present it to substantiate that. One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on those statistics ... LOL Please, John: go look at the trend. The information is out there. When I see massive changes in my family friends, the computers I maintain and repair, the industry I work in ... I will, I simply won't have a choice ... at this time, it is simply a non-issue ... makes me really question those figures ... When you control only about 4-4.5% of the market....a 13% increase in sales doesn't really show up as anything significant. I would suspect the increase is drive by I-Pad sales....not Mac. For all we know the sale of Macintosh computers has dropped off. Actually, no. We know that the Mac computers sales have increased and outgrown the rest of the personal computer market for something like 22 straight quarters. Still being in a miserable condition after achieving your claims is not a real achievement ... others opinions may vary ... mac sucks for industrial/scientific/production uses ... and playing home computer games ... end of story. Just look around here, the mac does fine for newsgroups ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 11:50 AM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/15/2011 7:22 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 8:16 PM, Tankfixer wrote: In , - Lloyd E Parsons spouted ! On 10/13/11 7:56 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 12, 11:49 pm, John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better." One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on those statistics ... Regards, JS For the Non-Techies : PC -vs- Mac http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...pare/pc-vs-mac non-tech-r-i ~ RHF . . LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. However, they are often willing to buy component built systems because they are better or cheaper than named PC packages. Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. It has been my experience, you run into a real dyed-in-the-wool-fool and all bets are off! Seems to me, I've run into a Religious fanatic (ie the Church of Mac) and anything that's contrary to his doctrine must be wrong. Yes, apparently on "liars", such as myself, are accusing him of label worship! Krist, I need another good personal attack just to bring me to my senses! Ya' suppose? Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 11:12 AM, J R wrote:
Y'all cats better hurry up and jump over to the Apple store and get your new Apple 4S iPhone.I don't want one, ergo I don't tote. My old buddy is going to George Reed's funeral.Obituaries section at http://www.clarionledger.com cuhulin All I do is message, phone, locate addresses and uses maps GPS as a guide -- when I need directions, lookup something on the web (in an emergency -- screen is hard to read at my age), post pictures up to family facebook pages at family events, newsgroups/email when away from computers, take pictures when no better camera is available, make audio notes to myself/others, listen to podcasts of infowars.com and Alex Jones, watch a youtube.com flick that someone wants me to view, etc. My 4G LG android phone more than handles the uses which are forced on me .... and it was cheap. I am always happy to get home in from of my dual 32 inch screens ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/17/11 11:14 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/16/2011 11:48 AM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 8:16 PM, Tankfixer wrote: In , - Lloyd E Parsons spouted ! On 10/13/11 7:56 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 12, 11:49 pm, John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:40 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. That can be easily explained for any number of reasons which DON'T substantiate the hardware and software of MAC being "better." One which jumps to mind, immediately, a number of people just as ignorant as you have just went out and purchased new computers and have skewed the statistics for a short period, causing a false "blip" on those statistics ... Regards, JS For the Non-Techies : PC -vs- Mac http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...pare/pc-vs-mac non-tech-r-i ~ RHF . . LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. However, they are often willing to buy component built systems because they are better or cheaper than named PC packages. A very few people. You keep saying that, but a simple check of eBay, nevermind the retail sales of motherboards would clearly challenge that assertion. So what exactly do you have to show that it's only "very few people" that have a component built system? Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg In California, you can walk into any Best Buy, Fry's, etc. and ask them how many PC's and motherboards they sell a day ... then stop by the apple store on your way home and notice the employees look like the maytag repairman (the most loneliest guy in town) unless they having a new "iPhone rip off day." Regards, JS LOL! I guess all those reports about the Apple Store's being extremely busy that we see everywhere except from you, must be fiction huh? :) Around here, BestBuy does fine selling PCs, but components other than external HDs and such, not so much. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 12:03 PM, Scout wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/15/2011 12:44 PM, Scout wrote: "Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 20:12:02 -0400, "Scout" wrote: No, their desktop market is growing, just not as fast as their laptop market. Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but their share in that expanding market is decreasing. Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop market. Which arguments are correct? Both. Desktop computers last longer nowadays before becoming obsolete for most functions. And there are more and better alternatives to desktop computers than there used to be. Yep, but the alternatives are most expensive, less durable, limited in upgrade options, and generally poorer performance than a comparable desktop. Yes, what the world needs is a generic platform for the laptop, where as much choice of components is available as in the desktop/tower platform ... proprietary chit is always crap ... Except the conditions of a laptop are utterly different than a desktop. Thus the different processors, etc. In a desktop, power usage isn't a big deal, but in a laptop every watt used matters since it impacts battery life. In a desktop, weight isn't an issue since it's not going anywhere, but in a laptop lighter is better as heavy laptops don't sell as well In a desktop, you don't have to worry so much about size. A 3.5" drive is fine, but in a laptop you have to go with the smallest form factor you can to cut down on size and weight. In a desktop you can make it more durable because size, weight and power usage aren't a big concern, a laptop on the other hand needs to shave everything to the absolute minimum and thus durability suffers. In a desktop you can hold your CPU at a moderate temperature, by using a big heavy heat sink and having a rather large fan blowing air over it, in a laptop, you've only got so much room for the heat sink, and you can't make it any heavier than absolutely necessary, and you don't want to run the fan unless you absolutely have to (battery life), so generally your laptop CPU runs hot, damn hot, burning hot, which isn't so great for CPU life. They are just different horses with utterly different requirements. The Desktop is the Clydesdale, while a laptop is a pony. Sure the pony can do most the stuff the Clydesdale can do....by working like hell doing it....but it's going to wear that pony out that much quicker. Size, weight, power use, heat, and so on DEFINE the limits of what a laptop is and can do. Thus laptops will always be more limited in nature than a desktop. Absolutely in agreement, my 10 inch notebook is tiny volkwagon (like I say, all I need is a TX/RX cell unit and phone software), my 3/4 tower case holding the most uptodate components is a Peterbilt, a very sporty Peterbilt, but still ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/16/2011 8:09 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:44:54 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but their share in that expanding market is decreasing. Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop market. Which arguments are correct? Both. Could you explain how the market for desktop computers can be both expanding and shrinking? Most laptops cannot even handle Secondlife! Cite... Yours, load it up and give it a spin, it is free ... http://secondlife.com/ Minimum system requirements: http://secondlife.com/support/system-requirements/ Client/viewer downloads: http://secondlife.com/support/downloads/ (Mac/Linux versions available here) Once in world, hang out in Sandbox Island, Sandbox Cordova, or Sandbox Goguen -- here you will find serious "griefers" to test your hardware and video to the max ... When you can manage them, take a trip to the weapons testing sandbox ... and when you want to die ... go to Rausch! Be careful, it can become addicting ... because of low system requirements, this is a good entry level "game" for older/aging computer users ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Lloyd E Parsons wrote in
: On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. Plus the big name gets its parts a lot cheaper due to volume discount. Are you going to give a hobbyist the same price on a motherboard that you give a big name? No. Then the question becomes who does the warranty when things don't go right, and who provides tech support if you need it? The guy that doesn't think his labor is worth much?? Many folks who buy name brand (like from a Costco) will usually stop by a local computer shop to fix any troubles rather than to send his laptop back to the source. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
|
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Scout" wrote in
: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little story here. The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage here. In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor at all. Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it. That depends on the hardware. For example, I'm not in the PC business anymore but on modems, routers, etc.. a person can go to a Best Buy and get one for less than the computer shop owner pays for it. Where the shop owner shines is in custom building. When certain configurations are built to fill a particular niche for a particular customer. At least that is how it was....way back when.... -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: In California, you can walk into any Best Buy, Fry's, etc. and ask them how many PC's and motherboards they sell a day ... then stop by the apple store on your way home and notice the employees look like the maytag repairman (the most loneliest guy in town) unless they having a new "iPhone rip off day." LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL You can, can you? You can ask a major retailer for its sales figures and they'll just give them to you? Would you mind catching that on video for us? And Apple stores are absolutely booming. The one in New York does more dollars per square foot than Tiffany's for goodness sake. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/16/2011 9:54 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:50 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...yirid=A0D622CE 9F 5 79F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU? GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...getting-gpu-up gr ade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again Gesus ... you don't even have a clue how moronic that question is, do you? ... but you ask it as if you could understand the answer, obviously you could not ... better yet would be a real moronic question like, why is a GPU not a CPU? ... the answer, IT IS and, like heads, two processors are always better than one! roflol Regards, JS You claimed *YOU* needed a faster GPU in order speed up YOUR compiling and linking, John... ...and now you're producing link after link that doesn't support that claim. Actually, I claimed that software can be made aware of the GPU and utilize it to speed up the processing power of ANY application, it can, it has been, and my claims are true. No. That is most certainly NOT what you claimed, shall I quote you? I also claimed I use software which uses these methods, and I gave an example of software which can be obtained, by anyone, to demonstrated the power of "what happens" when those methods are applied. You have engaged in a personal attack and attempt to deceptively create an argument to aid you ... duh! Worse yet, you are betting you will find morons to assist and support your efforts ... and make me appear answerable to you -- go abuse your wife ... obviously she must be a willing subject, I am not, I eat morons like you ... LOL -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/17/11 11:59 AM, RD Sandman wrote:
. net wrote in : "Lloyd E wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little story here. The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage here. In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor at all. Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it. That depends on the hardware. For example, I'm not in the PC business anymore but on modems, routers, etc.. a person can go to a Best Buy and get one for less than the computer shop owner pays for it. Where the shop owner shines is in custom building. When certain configurations are built to fill a particular niche for a particular customer. At least that is how it was....way back when.... Back when, it was that way. Now most of the little mom and pop shops depend on their service business to make a living as sales at the current profit margins, aren't where it is at. And getting a good salesman is tough when they can't make good commissions. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/16/2011 8:09 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:44:54 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but their share in that expanding market is decreasing. Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop market. Which arguments are correct? Both. Could you explain how the market for desktop computers can be both expanding and shrinking? Most laptops cannot even handle Secondlife! Cite... Yours, load it up and give it a spin, it is free ... http://secondlife.com/ Sorry, but that's asking me to do the work of proving your claim. Minimum system requirements: http://secondlife.com/support/system-requirements/ Mac OS X requirements: Mac OS X 10.5: check; Mac OS X 10.6.8 actually 1.5GHz Intel processor: check; 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo actually. Graphics card: Radeon9200 or above, or NVidia GeForce 2 or 4. My MacBook Pro: GeForce 8600M GT. That's only about 10 times faster than the GeForce4 series. Client/viewer downloads: http://secondlife.com/support/downloads/ (Mac/Linux versions available here) Once in world, hang out in Sandbox Island, Sandbox Cordova, or Sandbox Goguen -- here you will find serious "griefers" to test your hardware and video to the max ... When you can manage them, take a trip to the weapons testing sandbox ... and when you want to die ... go to Rausch! Be careful, it can become addicting ... because of low system requirements, this is a good entry level "game" for older/aging computer users ... Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: When you control only about 4-4.5% of the market....a 13% increase in sales doesn't really show up as anything significant. I would suspect the increase is drive by I-Pad sales....not Mac. For all we know the sale of Macintosh computers has dropped off. Actually, no. We know that the Mac computers sales have increased and outgrown the rest of the personal computer market for something like 22 straight quarters. Still being in a miserable condition after achieving your claims is not a real achievement ... others opinions may vary ... mac sucks for industrial/scientific/production uses ... and playing home computer games ... end of story. So a computer specifically designed for *PEOPLE* to use allegedly "sucks" at industrial and production uses, huh? Wow. Quite the revelation. Fact: scientists are a big market for Macs. As for the rest, where people have a reasonable income, Macs sell more than 10% of all the computers out there. Just look around here, the mac does fine for newsgroups ... Does fine in North America, Europe, Australia, etc. too! -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 8:01 PM, Scout wrote:
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Cite? http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi nav.pdf http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015 -laptops-will-still-reign/ Sorry, but somehow I don't see little tables (iPad and knockoffs) as being a adequate replacement for desktop and laptop systems. IOW, people are buying these new toys rather than upgrading their perfectly adequate desktop. I suspect this to be merely a phase and as the mobile market is saturated you will find a sudden drop off in sales. However, I will agree that at the moment desktop sales are down, however, looking around I don't see a lot of people trading in their desktop for a laptop, but rather getting a laptop for use in conjunction with their desktop. Like tobacco, alcohol and marijuana (probably coffee too) are referred to as "gateway drugs", let us hope that the tablets and other toys become "gateway computers." Introducing all to the true value of adequate computing machines! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 8:09 PM, J R wrote:
A Ford will get you anywhere a Rolls Royce/Bentley will, and do it much better too. cuhulin But, web TV won't ... if an apple is like a toy when compared to a powerful PC ... WEB TV is simply a drawing of a toy ... what it is! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Lloyd E Parsons wrote in
: On 10/17/11 11:59 AM, RD Sandman wrote: . net wrote in : "Lloyd E wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little story here. The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage here. In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor at all. Odd, I've done it and even figuring my labor at $30/hr I could still provide equal hardware at a lower price, or better hardware at the same price and tuned to the customers exact requirements rather than some cookie cutter. Plus I know several people who make a living out of doing this and oddly enough they seem to be making a pretty decent living at it. That depends on the hardware. For example, I'm not in the PC business anymore but on modems, routers, etc.. a person can go to a Best Buy and get one for less than the computer shop owner pays for it. Where the shop owner shines is in custom building. When certain configurations are built to fill a particular niche for a particular customer. At least that is how it was....way back when.... Back when, it was that way. Now most of the little mom and pop shops depend on their service business to make a living as sales at the current profit margins, aren't where it is at. Yes, it was the same way back when, but that wasn't what was being discussed was it. And getting a good salesman is tough when they can't make good commissions. Most of the ones that I knew didn't have a separate marketing entity. It was owner-do-all with maybe a couple of shop people or someone to go on site. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:14:27 -0700, John Smith
wrote: In California, you can walk into any Best Buy, Fry's, etc. and ask them how many PC's and motherboards they sell a day ... then stop by the apple store on your way home and notice the employees look like the maytag repairman (the most loneliest guy in town) unless they having a new "iPhone rip off day." For whatever reason, Apple Stores are the most profitable retail stores per square foot in the country. The ones I've seen have lots of busy employees. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
WebTV can, and does easily access some newsgroups that people using
computers can not access.Lets see you beat that.I am not saying WebTV is better (oviously it isn't.Consider, WebTV can not get a virus.) than PCs. cuhulin |
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