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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:03 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/15/2011 5:46 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total PC market ... You are welcome to present evidence that computers purchased as components and then assemble form any significant fraction of personal computer sales... Don't have to, anyone not living under a rock knows it ... it is self-apparent ... one would have to stick their head in a hole to miss it. Regards, JS So you have nothing... I got a nut claiming mac is cutting edge and going to take over the world lol ... indeed, seems to be a couple of 'em! Really? Where did anyone claim either of those things? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: ... I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of the mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider. Not going to happen. But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech market with consumers with a few bucks. Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the world, dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their fantasies ... roflol Still, one must keep a foot in reality ... Regards, JS In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In that, it has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to talk about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but that is being done at pathetic profit levels. Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in cost. Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops. Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market But Apple makes most of the profit... :-) Shows they overprice their goods.... Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that? Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying their products. I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well worth it. :-) -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
RD Sandman wrote: Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in cost. Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops. Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market But Apple makes most of the profit... :-) Shows they overprice their goods.... Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying their products. But an excellent one from theirs as long as it doesn't drastically reduce sales. With the charisma Apple seems to hold, I don't think that is much of a problem. It is like the folks who love to own Cadillacs. It doesn't cost much more to produce a Cadillac than it does Chevy, but compare the price and the cachet. No. Because a Cadillac is still a POS GM product. A Mac actually does work better for ordinary people. My business is supporting Mac users and I'm in serious trouble with my clients who have single machines or even small all-Mac networks, because they no longer need much of my support. I went to visit one client the other day for a very small email issue and I realized that it had been a couple of YEARS since I last did any work for that company. I'd say that for them, the Mac has worked out very well; not so well for me. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. No. They do not. So what's your point? Most people have neither the interest nor the knowledge to build their own systems. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 2:09 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. So what's your point? work 4 times as well doing what? The number of people buying them. So in other words, nothing like what you said. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Cite? http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi nav.pdf http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015 -laptops-will-still-reign/ -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...id=A0D622CE9F5 79F 09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Sorry, but you're now deflecting. You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and linking". Let's see a cite. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU? GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century. http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...ng-gpu-upgrade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 9:45 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html And with audio, do you mean like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html Or this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html Or perhaps this: http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and start using it ... notice that there is no software available for the MAC ... linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc. Really? No software at all, huh? http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do it better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the faster, cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ... I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that (apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac. Got a comparison to this card for the PC: http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F 579 F09 &v ers ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275 I don't need one. Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things" when running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play video games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ... Regards, JS LOL And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is... ...video games! There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering and benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults can't ... No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU... ...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and linking software. However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior in comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this reality, and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch over to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning any hope of proving their false positions to be correct. The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is easy to use and that doesn't have problems. Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their cars. It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ... that they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc. You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to compiling? But, I will ... you can make book on that. Regards, JS Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some prompting to seek a cure .. Regards, JS BOINC even ... list of BOINC projects he http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php Excerpt from that: "Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit (GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. " And not one word that says you be able to compile or link faster... http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...ng-gpu-upgrade -making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again Read it and weep. Which mentions compiling and linking on a personal computer, where? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Now I see how you can recommend junk to those contemplating the purchase of a computer ... laptops are barely acceptable for most all commercial applications ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: When I see massive changes in my family friends, the computers I maintain and repair, the industry I work in ... I will, I simply won't have a choice ... at this time, it is simply a non-issue ... makes me really question those figures ... When you control only about 4-4.5% of the market....a 13% increase in sales doesn't really show up as anything significant. I would suspect the increase is drive by I-Pad sales....not Mac. For all we know the sale of Macintosh computers has dropped off. Actually, no. We know that the Mac computers sales have increased and outgrown the rest of the personal computer market for something like 22 straight quarters. I assume you have a mouse in your pocket? I have the facts. What have you got? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
John Smith wrote in
: On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Now I see how you can recommend junk to those contemplating the purchase of a computer ... laptops are barely acceptable for most all commercial applications ... That depends on what that application is. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 1:49 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Cite? http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi nav.pdf http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015 -laptops-will-still-reign/ Somehow, I would not even put tablets in the same universe as a decent laptop! Nor an android phone, calculator, etc. lol Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Alan Baker wrote in
: In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. No. They do not. So what's your point? Most people have neither the interest nor the knowledge to build their own systems. Most people don't need either the interest or the knowledge. They go to a local computer dealer, discuss their needs and the dealer will usually build it for them. Now, if that dealer is a place like Best Buy or Costco, yes, you will get a brand name product....if the dealer is an independent, then the system will most likely be built by the dealer him or herself. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 12:17 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
. net wrote in : "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Lloyd E wrote in message ... On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: ... I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of the mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider. Not going to happen. But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech market with consumers with a few bucks. Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the world, dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their fantasies ... roflol Still, one must keep a foot in reality ... Regards, JS In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In that, it has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to talk about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but that is being done at pathetic profit levels. Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in cost. Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops. Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market But Apple makes most of the profit... :-) Shows they overprice their goods.... Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying their products. But an excellent one from theirs as long as it doesn't drastically reduce sales. With the charisma Apple seems to hold, I don't think that is much of a problem. It is like the folks who love to own Cadillacs. It doesn't cost much more to produce a Cadillac than it does Chevy, but compare the price and the cachet. I don't even think that comparison is close. It is more like a ford pickup and a Peterbilt! Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Now I see how you can recommend junk to those contemplating the purchase of a computer ... laptops are barely acceptable for most all commercial applications ... Commercial applications such as... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:49 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Cite? http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi nav.pdf http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015 -laptops-will-still-reign/ Somehow, I would not even put tablets in the same universe as a decent laptop! Nor an android phone, calculator, etc. lol Regards, JS Way to miss the point! Point: desktops are declining in market share; giving way to laptops. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/11 3:52 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Now I see how you can recommend junk to those contemplating the purchase of a computer ... laptops are barely acceptable for most all commercial applications ... Regards, JS Absolute hogwash! Most commercial applications don't need the horsepower of an Atom powered netbook, let alone the extra power from a better, faster processor. And btw, less powerful doesn't mean junk. But then you gamers don't understand anything but graphic speed and sound anyway... -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:42:15 -0600, Alan Baker
wrote: I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well worth it. Don't you know? When people make choices different from my choices it doesn't mean they looked at the facts and picked what was best for them. No, it means that they have succumbed to the dark side and it is our duty to convert them. And we will call *them* irrational fanboyz. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:52:15 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Now I see how you can recommend junk to those contemplating the purchase of a computer ... laptops are barely acceptable for most all commercial applications ... "Barely acceptable" is a subset of "acceptable". I don't have a laptop, but I see people using commercial applications all the time without seeming to be annoyed at how unacceptable they are. Admittedly, many have large monitors at home and at work which supplement their laptops. But those are part of their decision. They can work on their Powerpoint presentation at the coffee house - I can't. They can look up the document they didn't think they were going to need that they got at work - in the middle of the night at home. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. Then the question becomes who does the warranty when things don't go right, and who provides tech support if you need it? The guy that doesn't think his labor is worth much?? -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/11 4:21 PM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:42:15 -0600, Alan wrote: I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well worth it. Don't you know? When people make choices different from my choices it doesn't mean they looked at the facts and picked what was best for them. No, it means that they have succumbed to the dark side and it is our duty to convert them. And we will call *them* irrational fanboyz. Tut, tut, Howard. That's "fanbois".... :) -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
You can lay down big bucks for a computer that has top quality parts, or
you can buy a $248.00 computer at Sears that has low quality parts.Like the elderly guy who works in the electronics department at the Sears store at Metrocenter Mall told me last March, Use it and then throw it away. He is right too. There are two grades of parts, Top Quality parts, and Low Quality parts.The Low Quality parts, that is why they can sell those computers so cheap. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Yep, and for that very reason, why should they pay a lot more money for a machine that basically does the exact same job of a much cheaper PC? IOW, you just shot yourself in the foot. Nope. Because it does it in a manner that is easier for ordinary people to handle. It works *better*. I mean you can make up a very decent system that will handle most people fine for much longer than 4 years, do it for a fraction of the price of a Mac, and will be vastly more upgradeable when they do need to make changes. And as long as they have you to help them out every few weeks, they'll be fine. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ... If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average person wants to do with a computer". But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year. No, actually, you don't. I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I want it to do. And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need the power that a high-end desktop has. Yep, and for that very reason, why should they pay a lot more money for a machine that basically does the exact same job of a much cheaper PC? IOW, you just shot yourself in the foot. I mean you can make up a very decent system that will handle most people fine for much longer than 4 years, do it for a fraction of the price of a Mac, and will be vastly more upgradeable when they do need to make changes. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: ... I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of the mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider. Not going to happen. But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech market with consumers with a few bucks. Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the world, dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their fantasies ... roflol Still, one must keep a foot in reality ... Regards, JS In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In that, it has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to talk about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but that is being done at pathetic profit levels. Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in cost. Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops. Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market But Apple makes most of the profit... :-) Shows they overprice their goods.... Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that? Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others...... Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me. Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying their products. I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well worth it. :-)\ And then you have a bunch more people that decide, that the extra price really isn't worth it. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. No. They do not. Sure they do, according to the standard you set above. Since at least 4 times as many people have them, then they most work well for four times as many normal people. So what's your point? Most people have neither the interest nor the knowledge to build their own systems. yawn I've already shot that assertion down....so why do you keep repeating it? Do you think if you say it enough times, that the facts will suddenly change? |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 2:09 PM, Scout wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. So what's your point? work 4 times as well doing what? The number of people buying them. So in other words, nothing like what you said. Certainly it does. By your standard of people buying them......they work 4 times as well, because 4 times as many people buy them. Don't blame me because you don't understand your own standard. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Cite? http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi nav.pdf http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015 -laptops-will-still-reign/ Sorry, but somehow I don't see little tables (iPad and knockoffs) as being a adequate replacement for desktop and laptop systems. IOW, people are buying these new toys rather than upgrading their perfectly adequate desktop. I suspect this to be merely a phase and as the mobile market is saturated you will find a sudden drop off in sales. However, I will agree that at the moment desktop sales are down, however, looking around I don't see a lot of people trading in their desktop for a laptop, but rather getting a laptop for use in conjunction with their desktop. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/16/2011 1:49 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Howard wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, Scout: THE desktop market keeps shrinking. Cite? http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi nav.pdf http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015 -laptops-will-still-reign/ Somehow, I would not even put tablets in the same universe as a decent laptop! Nor an android phone, calculator, etc. lol Regards, JS Way to miss the point! Point: desktops are declining in market share; giving way to laptops. No, simply means that the recent sharp drop in price and increase in performance is allowing the desire for laptops to be fulfilled. (ie you removed the damn across the river and the lake is now filling). I think once the market saturates you will find quite a bit of difference because I know very few people who have traded in their desktop for a laptop. Most are simply buying a laptop for parallel use with their desktop. And many mobile devices (iPad) will never replace laptops or desktops and yet...they are a significant part of what you claim is a growing laptop market. Actually you should refer to it as the mobile market, to be precise. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:09:38 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. Sorry if you found a bad supplier. Most will build systems to your exact specifications or tell you the general tradeoffs of different options and what you really need vs what you think you need. Such as most people don't need a massive hard drive. Nor do you need a massive amount of memory for most applications. Depending on what you are doing you can also save a bunch of money on the video card. That allows you to put the money were it needs to go, in getting a better motherboard, CPU, and/or faster memory. If you know what you want, you can buy it from the big name companies too. The local make-it-yourself-shop's strength was in helping people find what they wanted. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
A Ford will get you anywhere a Rolls Royce/Bentley will, and do it much
better too. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. Sorry if you found a bad supplier. Most will build systems to your exact specifications or tell you the general tradeoffs of different options and what you really need vs what you think you need. Such as most people don't need a massive hard drive. Nor do you need a massive amount of memory for most applications. Depending on what you are doing you can also save a bunch of money on the video card. That allows you to put the money were it needs to go, in getting a better motherboard, CPU, and/or faster memory. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 22:52:27 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others...... Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me. Does that same logic apply to restaurants, cars, & concert tickets? -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Nope, small suppliers can generally match much of what a name brand puts out simply because they aren't having to pay last year's price for hardware they are going to sell tomorrow. Just watch the price on any hardware. From what it was a year ago, to today. It generally will drop significantly. So you can either beat their price or match their price with superior hardware. However, there is a tradeoff, customer support particularly in driver updates, software conflicts/errors, and so on is left much more to the consumer that it might be with the name guys. However, a lot of hardware drivers now provide automatic updates from the maker as they become available. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/2011 9:24 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote:
On 10/15/2011 6:47 PM, Don Kirkman wrote: On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:04:46 -0700, John wrote: The rest of what you had to say, bad decisions, paying too much for a home, etc. ... well ya', that is covered in "Life 101." If you missed that class, problems will keep arising until you do take that class! ... don't make those bad decisions, don't pay too much for over valued property, don't buy what you can't afford, etc. You ignore the people who were *told* they could afford the houses they bought. People with a duty to be diligent--brokers, financiers, investment houses, all assured them that they deserved a good house and by heck they could afford one because they were given them a real bargain. Basically, it comes down to common sense, if you can't afford the house, don't buy it... yet ... But if you're assured that you can afford it, who is the real culprit here? Ah yes, the old Liar Loans... The only "qualification" for the loan was could you fog a mirror? If you were breathing, you qualified. Talk about morons! Most people, when shopping, never get to the checkout with more in their basket -- quite amazing when you consider the morons who bought homes! The real question here, is why was there a big bubble of morons purchasing homes? Is it possible they never heard, "BUYER BEWARE?" roflol ... you just gotta love morons, it is always someone elses fault they did something stupid ... next, I expect a cop to walk up to one and ask them, "Why did u just shoot that person?" And, they reply, "He just got in the way of my bullet -- it wasn't my fault!" Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/15/2011 11:39 PM, Don Kirkman wrote:
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 20:36:06 -0700, John wrote: On 10/15/2011 3:47 PM, Don Kirkman wrote: On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:04:46 -0700, John wrote: don't make those bad decisions, don't pay too much for over valued property, don't buy what you can't afford, etc. You ignore the people who were *told* they could afford the houses they bought. People with a duty to be diligent--brokers, financiers, investment houses, all assured them that they deserved a good house and by heck they could afford one because they were given them a real bargain. I guess some missed the basic education of where the teacher asked you, "If someone told you to jump off a cliff, would you?" I gather you haven't bought a newspaper or watched TV in the last couple of years. Or your mind is link a steel trap--rusted shut. Basically, it comes down to common sense, if you can't afford the house, don't buy it... yet ... But if you're assured that you can afford it, who is the real culprit here? If you are into trusting, I got something to tell you, "Give me your money to hold, for five years, I'll give you back double!" Society is built on trust. Americans' trust in their institutions has been badly shaken by the scandals and frauds and profiteering*--and you apparently have no empathy with the financial situation of millions of families. * definitely not the same thing as making a profit. ROFLOL You were kidding, right? Are you really a Horvath wannabe? Yeah, I have made some bad mistakes. One serious mistake is believing the average American knew if he could afford to purchase something, or not -- seems you have argued, and quite effectively, you are not, and that the average person on the street has an approx. equivalent IQ ... and more to point, that is someone elses fault that this is true! But, now I have it down, don't let people keep proving me wrong, realize them for the complete morons they are ... I guess I have to thank you for that ... chuckle Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: ... I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of the mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider. Not going to happen. But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech market with consumers with a few bucks. Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the world, dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their fantasies ... roflol Still, one must keep a foot in reality ... Regards, JS In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In that, it has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to talk about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but that is being done at pathetic profit levels. Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in cost. Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops. Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market But Apple makes most of the profit... :-) Shows they overprice their goods.... Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that? Well, let's see....they make more profit from fewer sales than others...... Gee, sounds like overpriced products to me. Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying their products. I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well worth it. :-)\ And then you have a bunch more people that decide, that the extra price really isn't worth it. Yup. That's true. But most of them make that decision blindly; never having actually used a Mac. I've worked with, supported, sold, worked with, sold, and supported Macs since about 1985. In all that time, of the people who've switched from PCs to Macs, only one wanted to go back. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/16/11 10:20 PM, Scout wrote:
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/16/11 4:16 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 14:51:55 -0400, "Scout" wrote: Quite a few people make a living supplying people with such systems customized to their specific desires. Most of my computers have been those. But the local stores that made my computers have all closed and not been replaced. True, it's largely moved to mail order since that way you don't have the overhead of a store front, or if you do maintain a store front, it's just to pick up the occasional sale while you're processing the bulk of your business through internet orders. Face to face contact was good at finding out what my needs and wants really were. Having a clone shop by mail order is as personalized as having a big name computer by mail order. I'd have to agree. And honestly, if that mail order clone shop is cheaper on a per configuration basis, than most of the big names, I'd be running away from them. It just isn't all that much cheaper to buy the parts and put them together properly than it is to buy ready made, UNLESS the shop has really cheap labor or doesn't factor that in. No, actually it is cheaper. It doesn't take very long to assemble a computer, and properly done you easily undercut the names by selective buying. Because the names don't get the discounts that arise as the hardware is superseded by newer tech. A computer they've had sitting in the warehouse for a year is not worth nearly as much as it was a year ago, but they've already paid the higher price for the hardware. A local supplier doesn't have this problem because they have a much quicker supply turnover and thus they don't lose the value in hardware at nearly the rate as the big players do. Plus the small supplier can take advantage of price breaks, sales, discounts, and so on, while the brand guys are limited in their ability to change the hardware configuration at the drop of a hat. Having been in the business for many years, I call bull**** on your little story here. The big boys buy in such massive quantities that they can buy current stuff for what the little guy pays for the last cycle of parts. And then have them built in factories with such cheap labor that any US builder can't even come close to matching. Labor far, far less than minimum wage here. In the end, they sell for less than the little guy that values his labor at all. Nope, small suppliers can generally match much of what a name brand puts out simply because they aren't having to pay last year's price for hardware they are going to sell tomorrow. Just watch the price on any hardware. From what it was a year ago, to today. It generally will drop significantly. So you can either beat their price or match their price with superior hardware. However, there is a tradeoff, customer support particularly in driver updates, software conflicts/errors, and so on is left much more to the consumer that it might be with the name guys. However, a lot of hardware drivers now provide automatic updates from the maker as they become available. The advantage the small guys have is in custom configurations for specialty markets. Because of the very low volumes, it is difficult, if not impossible for the big guys to address that market except for some generic stuff. And usually for the specialty market, if you buy from the big boys, you have to overbuy to meet or exceed the spec you're needing. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
"Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta love it!! :) But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix) machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer! Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you want and save a $1000 ... Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you can put together a decent gaming computer for a grand! I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this, but... ...most people have no interest in building their own computers. Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the ones buying macs are proof enough of that ... No. That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people. Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well. No. They do not. Sure they do, according to the standard you set above. Since at least 4 times as many people have them, then they most work well for four times as many normal people. I never set any such standard. So what's your point? Most people have neither the interest nor the knowledge to build their own systems. yawn I've already shot that assertion down....so why do you keep repeating it? Because it's true. Do you think if you say it enough times, that the facts will suddenly change? -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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