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(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Oct 13, 7:00*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts *wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? * Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? * *If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! *Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:08:24 -0700, John Smith
wrote: What is needed is run any application, not just applications purchased thru amazon. My wife has a Nook Color and it does just about everything she needs. The web browser is pretty good. No computer can run any application. Any application can be written to run on any platform ... unless you are talking about attempting to run an operating system on a 1.98 calculator ... If we are comparing "applications purchased thru Amazon", and "applications purchased somewhere else", we are talking about whether applications are currently available. And every platform has limitations about currently available applications that won't run on them. I will note again though - I do buy ebooks from Amazon to read on my iPad. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:07:08 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Exactly, electronic books in an open architecture which can be read on any appliance using any software/hardware of choice ... instead of them all attempting to be "the next phone company" and sell us a ridiculously cheap service at a ridiculously HIGH PROFIT! I break the e-book DRM of books I buy, just so I can make sure I can always read them. Might as well just buy the book ... I have over 5,000 books, but I'm retired and see the time when I will be moving into a couple of rooms. E-books take up much less space. (They are hard to get autographed though). -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/2011 6:31 AM, Howard Brazee wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:07:08 -0700, John wrote: Exactly, electronic books in an open architecture which can be read on any appliance using any software/hardware of choice ... instead of them all attempting to be "the next phone company" and sell us a ridiculously cheap service at a ridiculously HIGH PROFIT! I break the e-book DRM of books I buy, just so I can make sure I can always read them. Might as well just buy the book ... I have over 5,000 books, but I'm retired and see the time when I will be moving into a couple of rooms. E-books take up much less space. (They are hard to get autographed though). I have a relative who works for a large publisher, she has access to a non-destructive book scanner, I ship the books to NY, book rate, she scans them and emails me the digitized file, if I wish to keep the physical book, she mails it back, if not, she turns it in at a used book store for credit for her acquisitions ... covers and any pics included, I convert them to .html and use my html reader and laptop. I have gotten so used to carrying the laptop with me, it just seems natural. I always have it in small backpack which also comes in handy for any other items I need to carry, such as a small thermos of expresso, tobacco, notepad, snacks, extra ammo, etc. Fishing, family outings, appointments, waiting for the wife shopping, visiting my mothers', etc. ... I just never leave home without it ... it is simply loaded with books and decoded/digitized movies, mp3's, etc. .... any I wish to keep, I archive on DVD ... I can't even imagine what it would be like to be without these capabilities ... my wife calls my backpack my "man-purse." Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/13/2011 11:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total PC market ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote:
On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . .... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 2:57 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 11:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total PC market ... Regards, JS Hogwash! What you build and other hobbyists also, is such a tiny part of the sales market it has no real bearing on the issue at all. And for the most part, few companies care about that build-your-own hobbyist market except some parts makers. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , "Scout" wrote: "Alan Baker" wrote in message ... In article , John Smith wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. Wrong, that is the amount sales have increased. Mac sales still only constitute about 4.5% of total PC sales. PC sales in Q2 2011 "Overall, the number of units reached 85 million, of which HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer and ASUS accounted for 17.5%, 12.5%, 12%, 10.9% and 5.2%, respectively." http://news.softpedia.com/news/Gartn...1-211780.shtml Meanwhile: Mac sales a Mac sales in Q2 2011 "Mac sales increased 28 percent from last year, with 3.76 million sold" http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-q2-201...million-ipads/ 3.76/85 = 4.4% So sales are actually less than my estimate of 4.5% That's a LONG way from the 13% you assert. No, bubba, sales of Macs increased by 13% (probably from Q1 2011) not that Mac sales constitute 13% of all PC sales. IOW, sales of Mac increased from about 3.25 Million to 3.76 Million per quarter. But next to total PC sales of 85 Million.....that's a pretty minimal change representing a difference of only about 0.6% increase in market share for that quarter. Further if we look the BULK of Mac sales are the mobiles. Desktop Mac sales continue to drop off. "Apple sold 2.75 million laptops, compared to 1.01 million desktops, with laptops accounting for 73 percent of Mac sales for the quarter. By the end of the calendar year, it's likely three out of four Macs sold will be portables. The inexorable trend towards niche status for desktops continues." http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-q2-201...million-ipads/ Seems people don't want a Mac sitting on their computer desk, unless they can walk away with it. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Good point. Certainly the source I just used only talks about computer sales for complete systems. While in reality a lot of PC are component built either by the consumer or by local computer stores. Which would explain why I don't see as many Macs as would be indicated by the fact that about 4.5% of all PC sales are Macs. Because PC sales of those built up from components aren't counted. Which would mean every system I have wouldn't count because ALL were component built. Yet, they are active computers. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores are recorded ... Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc. I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ... Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
John Smith wrote in
: On 10/13/2011 11:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total PC market ... Interesting.....it has been for a large number of years when discussing market share. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from the major players. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they represent a significant portion of total PC sales. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around 50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that someone has put together. So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the total market. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 3:53 PM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores are recorded ... And don't amount for much these days. I know, I worked for a fairly small dealership for many years and watched sales and profits keep dwindling. Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc. Many, many times. Obviously you think you are nearly the only person that is expert at computer sales and marketing. I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ... A claim that can't be proven such as this one of yours, is easy to make. I've seen nothing from you that indicates you have done this at all. Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ... Regards, JS If you haven't seen them, that is even a better indication of your lack of real knowledge of the computer market as a whole. Just some hobby crap you do. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote:
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from the major players. These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these days the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2 man shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they represent a significant portion of total PC sales. They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were a significant part of the market, those days are long over. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around 50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that someone has put together. You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there. So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the total market. My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part these days are the 1-2 person shops. Insignificant in today's market. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Scout wrote:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Gartn...1-211780.shtml Meanwhile: Mac sales a Mac sales in Q2 2011 "Mac sales increased 28 percent from last year, with 3.76 million sold" http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-q2-201...million-ipads/ 3.76/85 = 4.4% So sales are actually less than my estimate of 4.5% That's a LONG way from the 13% you assert. No, bubba, sales of Macs increased by 13% (probably from Q1 2011) not that Mac sales constitute 13% of all PC sales. IOW, sales of Mac increased from about 3.25 Million to 3.76 Million per quarter. But next to total PC sales of 85 Million.....that's a pretty minimal change representing a difference of only about 0.6% increase in market share for that quarter. Further if we look the BULK of Mac sales are the mobiles. Desktop Mac sales continue to drop off. "Apple sold 2.75 million laptops, compared to 1.01 million desktops, with laptops accounting for 73 percent of Mac sales for the quarter. By the end of the calendar year, it's likely three out of four Macs sold will be portables. The inexorable trend towards niche status for desktops continues." http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-q2-201...million-ipads/ Seems people don't want a Mac sitting on their computer desk, unless they can walk away with it. When you choose to compare worldwide shipments for PCs to US shipments for Macs you might get a distorted view. Rather than pick and choose numbers from different sources, how about getting them from a single source? http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/13/...th-10-7-share/ |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/2011 2:01 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:53 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores are recorded ... And don't amount for much these days. I know, I worked for a fairly small dealership for many years and watched sales and profits keep dwindling. Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc. Many, many times. Obviously you think you are nearly the only person that is expert at computer sales and marketing. I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ... A claim that can't be proven such as this one of yours, is easy to make. I've seen nothing from you that indicates you have done this at all. Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ... Regards, JS If you haven't seen them, that is even a better indication of your lack of real knowledge of the computer market as a whole. Just some hobby crap you do. Like I say, I think what I have seen is pretty much the norm ... although I'd like to be ... I am just not that special. Or, in other words, those who haven't seen what I am speaking about most like don't get out much ... Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 2:57 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/13/2011 11:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote: In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , . net wrote: "Alan wrote in message ... In , John wrote: On 10/12/2011 11:37 AM, Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: On 10/10/2011 2:30 PM, D Peter Maus wrote: On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote: In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. Hey, I am not the one into social standards! I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the PC can just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ... Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example... Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high res HD monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ... do the same with audio ... You mean, like this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html No like this. http://www.geforce.com/Hardware/GPUs...specifications CUDA cores 1024 vs 256 for the Mac Memory 3Gb vs 2 Gb for the Mac Memory Interface 768 bit vs 256 bit for the Mac Memory Bandwidth 327.7 Gb/s vs 89.6Gb/s for the Mac snip Like he said, Mac can't compete. LOL No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now. Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that. a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number. Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales. BFD No, no. Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all personal computers sold in the last quarter. I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total PC market ... Regards, JS Hogwash! What you build and other hobbyists also, is such a tiny part of the sales market it has no real bearing on the issue at all. Really? I suggest you browse through the systems for sale on Ebay and take note of how many are NOT brand systems, but component built. Further I will note: Looking at just the top 5 retail motherboard makers. Own Brand Retail motherboard sales in 2010 (does NOT include OEM sales) Asustek - 21.6 Million Gigabyte - 18 Million ASRock - 8 Million ECS - 7 Million MSI - 7 Million Total = 61.6 Million http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...rboard-maker/1 Given Q2 2011 PC sales were 85 Million So let's assume that's typical. 85 * 4 = 340 million per year plus the 61.6 million systems being sold by the top 5 motherboard makers. equals 401.6 Million computers per year 61.6 /401.6 = Market share of over 15% (if you calculate for TOTAL computer sales) Which is about FOUR TIMES the TOTAL Mac sales. (3.76 Million *4) (or about 3.7% of computer sales) Does that mean Mac sales are "a tiny part of the sales market it has no real bearing on the issue at all. "? After all Mac sales are at most only about a quarter of the sales of retail motherboards. So if component built systems are too few to matter, then Macs would be even MORE so. And for the most part, few companies care about that build-your-own hobbyist market except some parts makers. 61.6 Million motherboards sold last year would tend to suggest otherwise. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/2011 2:12 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from the major players. These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these days the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2 man shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they represent a significant portion of total PC sales. They just aren't these days. There was a day when the small shops were a significant part of the market, those days are long over. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around 50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that someone has put together. You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there. So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the total market. My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part these days are the 1-2 person shops. Insignificant in today's market. Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC: " You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there." Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy! I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together .... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL Regards, JS |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
It was iPhone fever in Jackson last night.Some of those people camped
out over night at the Apple store.If I ever want an iPhone, I will wait untill the dust settles down. http://www.clarionledger.com cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote:
Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC: " You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there." Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy! I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL Regards, JS I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand computers in their offices. But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built, tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple... Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is going to follow. No profits will do that. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 3:58 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...ories/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...5z7tpy_152.jpg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from the major players. These days I suspect they aren't counted. But that is because these days the small builders have almost disappeared, leaving only the 1-2 man shops with low profits to pick up the dregs of a once thriving market. More likely, most of it has simply gone to the internet. Those that recognized this early on continue to thrive....those that depended only on walk-in sales in the face of cheaper mail order systems failed. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Only if they are a major player. The small business individual or local computer store probably never even shows up. However, I bet they represent a significant portion of total PC sales. They just aren't these days. About 15% at least by the numbers I've already posted. To put that in perspective Mac sales would be only about 3.7% per the same market. There was a day when the small shops were a significant part of the market, those days are long over. Nope, they have simply gone mail order and as such they may no longer really have a "store front" in a physical sense. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. Based on what I've seen on people's computer desks. I would say around 50% are component built systems. Just skim through Ebay and see how many systems are actually brand names, and how many are simply computers that someone has put together. You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Local area LAN meets, people's homes, and of course quite a bit of computer repair, upgrade and even sales on the side. Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there. Must have been businesses, home computers however tend to be much more of the off brand (ie component built) or no brand (ie component built) So, I would have to challenge your assertion that such sales constitute a "miniscule part of the overall market". Because my experience and evidence would show they constitute a rather significant portion of the total market. My experience was with a small dealership that both built and sold wintel boxes, and also sold brand names. We sold a lot and our figures were reported in via some of the wholesalers we dealt with. Our custom built business declined over many years because the profits are so thin on these things that building your own isn't profitable if you have to pay for your labor. It was increasingly obvious that the only way to make as much profit as we wanted to make, we would have to quit making custom boxes. And we did just that. Just as almost all of the small shops did. The only ones left making custom stuff for the most part these days are the 1-2 person shops. Insignificant in today's market. ABout 15% if you consider that insignificant I can only wonder how you view Mac sales of 3.7%.... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Scout" wrote in
: "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...MAC%20Accessor ies/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...65z7tpy_152.jp g . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Good point. Certainly the source I just used only talks about computer sales for complete systems. While in reality a lot of PC are component built either by the consumer or by local computer stores. Most of those, I would assume, would be PC based not MAC. Which would explain why I don't see as many Macs as would be indicated by the fact that about 4.5% of all PC sales are Macs. Because PC sales of those built up from components aren't counted. Which would mean every system I have wouldn't count because ALL were component built. Yet, they are active computers. I am now down to three......going down by another after this weekend. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
John Smith wrote in
: On 10/14/2011 1:16 PM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote: On 10/14/11 3:00 PM, John Smith wrote: On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A.../MAC%20Accesso ries/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...765z7tpy_152.j pg . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Regards, JS Some gaming computers are hobbyist built, many are bought off the shelf or from companies that specialize in that market. Other specialized uses for computers are readily available on either off the shelf or built to order basis by companies that do show their sales figures. Your hobbyist references represents a miniscule part of the overall market that has little significance in the overall market. I doubt that all the custom builds at the little mom and pop PC stores are recorded ... Obvously, you have not been at a computer show and swap at San Francisco, LA, Las Vegas, etc. I don't even know how to get facts and figures to extrapolate from ... I have built hundreds over just the last decade, just myself ... people from the college, family, friends, neighbors, boy scouts, volunteer in senior services, etc. ... I don't know how many I would have ended up building if I'd attempted to make a hobby-business out of it ... Get real, over a decades I have seen thousands of computers, and just a handful of macs ... I keep hearing about the number of macs, just never see them ... I have always thought this strange ... at the local college here there is one mac lab and multiple pc labs on campus ... MACs used to be popular in school settings and universities. It was originally felt that if folks got used to MACs that they would order them and use them at the office in lieu of PCs. Hasn't worked out that though. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 16:58:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: True, but unless they are a major player, then the PCs they build up from components probably are never counted. Certainly I know several people that build computer systems on the side, and I'm quite certain they have never reported their sales volume to any researchers or poll takers. I suppose if one were to count motherboard sales and/or CPU sales one might be able to get a better calculation, but I don't see any indication that is a consideration since they only seem to count system sales and then only from the major players. They do track motherboard sales and CPU sales. It may seem that they aren't included because they are in the "other" category. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Howard Brazee wrote in
: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. Look at the coffee house crowd. They are much closer affiliated with acedemia than the workplace. ;) -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) Witnessing Republicans and Democrats bickering over the National Debt is like watching two drunks argue over a bar bill on the Titanic..... |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote: Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC: " You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there." Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy! I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL Regards, JS I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand computers in their offices. But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built, tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple... Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is going to follow. No profits will do that. No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing so. The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name brand just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own inferior hardware. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"RD Sandman" wrote in message ... "Scout" wrote in : "John Smith" wrote in message ... On 10/14/2011 1:36 AM, RHF wrote: On Oct 13, 7:00 pm, John wrote: On 10/13/2011 5:34 PM, Howard Brazee wrote: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:37 -0700 (PDT), David Barts wrote: Though that's largely irrelevant to my point. Again, if the price premium for a Mac isn't worth it to you (and it sounds like it's not), then just don't buy Macs (and it sounds like you're already not buying them). No problem; my feelings are not hurt in the least by someone making a different choice than I would have. How can that be? Don't you know that anybody who buys an Apple product is an irrational Fanboy? If we weren't fooled, we would all make the same choices, right? Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs ... my niece has MACs, but she works for them ... her kids have PCs ... as far as I know, those are the only MACs in my whole family and group of friends ... but I am sure there must be some around, in number, somewhere ... when I have worked for attorneys, I have seen some used, but then, mainly by attorneys who didn't know how to use a computer ... and yeah, I think they just carried them as a status symbol! Or, to play solitare, card games, match three games, tetris, etc. on the airplanes ... lol Regards, JS Ah Yes an Apple/MAC Computer {Case/Luggage} -says- "I Am An Apple/MAC Person !" [Status Symbol] http://www.globaltang.com/images/l/A...MAC%20Accessor ies/M108.jpg -and-alas- you are merely a little nothing 'pc' http://rlv.zcache.com/hi_im_a_mac_ba...65z7tpy_152.jp g . ... as I just pointed out, that figure, most likely, don't not represent all the PC's which are built-up from components ... like most gaming computers are ... the apple share of market is obviously a lot smaller than that being quoted ... Anyone needing state-of-art/specialized-use obviously has a custom built PC ... Good point. Certainly the source I just used only talks about computer sales for complete systems. While in reality a lot of PC are component built either by the consumer or by local computer stores. Most of those, I would assume, would be PC based not MAC. Actually, I think it would be exclusively PC, since I don't believe they sell the primary components of Macs on the retail market. Might be able to do something in the salvage market but that's really a matter of reassembling a computer rather than building a new one from unused parts. Which would explain why I don't see as many Macs as would be indicated by the fact that about 4.5% of all PC sales are Macs. Because PC sales of those built up from components aren't counted. Which would mean every system I have wouldn't count because ALL were component built. Yet, they are active computers. I am now down to three......going down by another after this weekend. Replacing with premade, or just old and unused? |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 6:35 PM, Scout wrote:
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote: Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC: " You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there." Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy! I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL Regards, JS I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand computers in their offices. But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built, tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple... Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is going to follow. No profits will do that. No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing so. No, in fact, IBM does not make any personal computers. They do provide Lenovo branded computers. http://www.ibm.com/ibm/us/en/pcannouncement/ The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name brand just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own inferior hardware. You don't need to tell me how competitive it is, I was in the biz for over 20 years. Your statement would ring truer if Apple wasn't able to sell upscale computers at premium prices. Hell, they sell everything at premium prices and make a hell of a big profit margin on all of it. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/14/11 6:39 PM, Scout wrote:
"Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, their desktop market is growing, just not as fast as their laptop market. -- Lloyd |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
Seems like the stores and banks around here that I go to use Dell
computers. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 6:39 PM, Scout wrote: "Howard Brazee" wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith wrote: Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use. But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of Macs there. That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking. No, their desktop market is growing, just not as fast as their laptop market. Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but their share in that expanding market is decreasing. The only place that Macs are making gains in their market share is in the laptop arena. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 6:35 PM, Scout wrote: "Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message ... On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote: Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC: " You must go to some really poor spots!! :) Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there." Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy! I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own! ROFLOL Regards, JS I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand computers in their offices. But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with wintel or Linux desktop boxes. No matter who or how they are built, tiny profits seem to be the norm. Except at Apple... Now we can argue that all you want. But keep in mind, IBM got out of the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is going to follow. No profits will do that. No, IBM got out of the RETAIL computer market. They still provide computers for the BUSINESS market, and make quite a bit of money doing so. No, in fact, IBM does not make any personal computers. They do provide Lenovo branded computers. http://www.ibm.com/ibm/us/en/pcannouncement/ Hate tell you this....but nothing you said contradicts me in the least. The problem is the PC market is very competitive and being a name brand just isn't enough that people will pay lots more money to own inferior hardware. You don't need to tell me how competitive it is, I was in the biz for over 20 years. Your statement would ring truer if Apple wasn't able to sell upscale computers at premium prices. Hell, they sell everything at premium prices and make a hell of a big profit margin on all of it. Yep, it's a small nitch market among a following of people sold on the brand. That doesn't happen in the PC market because the O/S isn't brand specific. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
http://www.devilfinder.com/find.php?...covery+Channel
A few minutes ago I saw a commercial about that on the Discovery channel. Premiers on Sunday. cuhulin |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Oct 14, 2:33*pm, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:
On 10/14/11 4:24 PM, John Smith wrote: Your text, once again, demonstrates the "status symbol" of the MAC: " You must go to some really poor spots!! :) * Most places I've been all have brand name boxes there." Indeed, that is the only part of your whole post which has any relevancy! I just went with a relative to social security, while assisting him (is partially blind), I noticed every computer at every desk was a PC ... and mostly custom built ... apparently their IT dept. puts them together ... unless the workers have to bring their own! *ROFLOL Regards, JS I can tell you that the local SS offices sure don't have no brand computers in their offices. But whatever the market share of what is, the profits are not with wintel or Linux desktop boxes. *No matter who or how they are built, tiny profits seem to be the norm. *Except at Apple... Now we can argue that all you want. *But keep in mind, IBM got out of the wintel desktop/laptop market years ago, and it looks like HP is going to follow. *No profits will do that. -- Lloyd IIRC the 'local' US Post Office "PC"s are Dell Boxes. |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 20:12:02 -0400, "Scout"
wrote: No, their desktop market is growing, just not as fast as their laptop market. Sorry, they are selling more desktops because of an expanding market, but their share in that expanding market is decreasing. Other arguments in this thread have been claiming a shrinking desktop market. Which arguments are correct? Desktop computers last longer nowadays before becoming obsolete for most functions. And there are more and better alternatives to desktop computers than there used to be. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
(OT) Steve Jobs.
One reason desktop computers last longer is because they have better
cooling than laptop computers.Heat is not good for electronic componets. cuhulin |
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